Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

Recently read Snow Falling on Cedars by David Guterson. It's not a new book, but I really liked it. There is an interesting discussion between one of the protagonists and his mother.. It's long but thought provoking.

"He had explained to his mother, when she asked him to say grace, that like his father before him he was an incorrigible agnostic and suspected God was a hoax. 'Suppose you had to choose right now.' his mother had once replied. 'Supposing somebody put a gun to your head and forced you to choose, Ishmael. Is there a God or isn't there?'

'Nobody has a gun to my head,' Ismael had answered her. 'I don't have to choose, do I? That's the whole point. I don't have to know for certain one way of the other if....'

'Nobody knows, Ishmael, what do you believe?'

'I don't believe anything. It isn't in me. Besides, I don't know what you mean by God. If you tell me what he is , Mom, I'll tell you if I think he exists.'

'Everybody knows what God is,' said his Mother. 'You feel what God is, don't you?'

'I don't feel what God is,' he answered. 'I don't feel anything either way. No feeling about it comes to me - it's not something I have a choice about. Isn't a feeling like that supposed to happen? Isn't it just supposed to happen? I can't make a feeling like that up, can I? God just chooses certain people, and the rest of us, we can't feel him.'

'You felt him as a child,' his mother said. 'I remember, Ishmael. You felt him.'

'That was a long time ago,' Ismael answered. 'What a child feels - that's different.'

Hmmmm. Sorry if this is too long. I find it particularly interesting because my Mother continually remonstrated with me when I was an adult that I believed when I was a child, so....WTH... None of us really has a choice as a child. I just went with the indoctrination that was forced down my throat. And to be fair, there were lots of good things about the upbringing. Just not the basic tenant.

edited for spelling errors.

minustwo - Interesting passage. You know, kids believe in Santa and the tooth fairy and no one expects you to cling to that belief in adulthood.

thisIknow - I don't know if that thread exists, but you certainly can start a Christian/atheist thread if you choose. Might generate some interesting discussion. This isn't the place, though - we're here because it's a safe place to discuss atheism, not to have things “explained" to us. I don't go on Christian threads to try to explain to people why their belief system Is illogical, so posting here about the Bible being the word of god (a book we don't accept and a supernatural being we don't believe in) doesn't really make sense.

Trishyla ...I might have made it more clear in my first post that I agree with God that each one of us is responsible for our own choice to be a believer or an unbeliever, which is shown in John 3:16-18. So I cannot argue with your choice as it's yours alone and rightly should be.

MinusTwo ...could you tell us what is the 'basic tenant' (of Christianity/or religion) that you said wasn't good in your upbringing?

I think we have our answer right there, MinusTwo. She agrees with her Magical sky fairy that we atheists are free to be as wrong as we want. At least that's what I got from her last post.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick to bloody death of condescending, self righteous christians getting in my face. Maybe I should be more polite, but I'm not in the mood tonight.

My husband, also an atheist, said we were being a lot nicer than he would have been.

ThisIKnow, discussion is welcome. Trolling is not. If we wish to learn new ways of viewing and interpreting christianity, we know where to go. This is not the place. Please be respectful.

It''s not Christians that killed those priests and burned their books. Christians don't do that sort of thing, nor are they authorized to. But unbelievers are free to not believe it.

I'll think about starting a thread where we can 'explain' whatever we want about Christianity or any other belief (even unbelief is a belief in....?).

Thanks for the good conversation.

thisIknow, you cite an authority we do not recognize on this thread. Please make these kinds of points elsewhere. You have been treated respectfully but we think your certainty is based on hooey. Feel free to think atheism is wrong/stupid, just keep your point of view off our thread. We don't post on the christian threads -- because we respect your right to believe what you want.

To be clear, hooey is the magic part. I think Jesus was a real person, and a wise/ evolved man, who did good things and encouraged good practices. Of course, he was a Jewish rabbi (hence a believer in Jewish 'magical' beliefs) with a big heart for the downtrodden.

The magic he is credited with (resurrection, water into wine, etc), and the divine parentage/virgin birth parts, however, are made-up hooey. As is the existence of God. Those are the trappings of the story. Many of us can see the message of loving one another is spiritually advanced and beautiful, without these magical trappings. Many of us can see that goodness it its own reward, and don't need a heavenly bribe or a hell threat to practice goodness.

Trish,

Here is the link. Just add it to your favorites. Thanks for mentioning it. I will post there as well.

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/7/topics/...

Thanks Ananda, I did not know how to add that link to my message.

Please do that.

I think it's time for a loud chorus of "Don't go away mad, just go away."

I come here to hang out with like-minded atheists/nontheists/agnostics, not to have some pious proselytizing poop smeared across our safe place.

Thisiknow, time for you to go. Bye-bye.

Alice 👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️

wanderweg: Love the pic/saying.

And that's the thing. Christianity tends to focus on death: Death of their savior. Life after death. They wear necklaces with an image of a dying or dead Jesus on the cross, with nails in his hands and feet, which I find so creepily disturbing. Glorification of Death. (Eternal) Life really only begins after death when (IF they were "Good" Believers) they fly up into Heaven and hang out with flying angels and chubby-cheeked cherubs.

As an atheist, I focus on Life, the here and now. And how I live my life, as difficult as it is, and what can I do to find joy every day and how can I make a positive contribution. I try to be a decent person based on my understanding of the WHY and WHAT of our collective existence. I view it as a CHOICE to leave the world a tiny bit better. I own my "s**t" vs looking to a deity or religious dogma to absolve me of my transgressions or for answers on what should I do. I don't believe in Free Rides or Free Lunches. I never say "the Devil made me do it." For Christians that want to pray for me, I say you pray to make yourself feel better, not me. A foot rub would do far more to make me feel better than some prayer to a giant White man wearing a long white robe sitting on a throne in a land called Heaven high in the sky. Yes! a foot rub!

I believe we all have to find our reasons for staying alive. Some folks need something outside themselves, like religion and a deity, to answer Life's Big Questions. Some of us, like me, view life far more pragmatically, and with just as much reverence as a religious person. While I am not much of a fan of O'Hair, I like the following quote:

"An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deed must be done instead of prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. (S)He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated." Madalyn Murray O'Hair

To my Sisters on this strange Journey, we aren't alone. We have each other to lift us up. Thank you all for being here
to ease my way.