Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

Found this on Facebook.  

"Why Did God Create Atheists?
There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.
One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”
The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”
—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)

That's a great story!! Love it!!

Ditto. I love that story.

I've been asked in the past "How can you be a good person if you're not a Christian?" To which I replied: "How can you be sure you are a good person, and not just afraid of punishment, if you are a Christian?" Needless to say it did not go over well. I've learned to avoid talking religion with rabid Christians.

Trish

I haven't posted to this forum in a while, but I just came across something that has made a transformative impact on me. I was browsing through the Amazon Prime videos and came across a 4 part series called "Inner Worlds, Outer Worlds". I have a science background, having been a biology teacher for 30 years, and this is the first thing that to me bridges the "divide" between physics and (for want of a better word) spirituality. It's main premise is that the physics has confirmed that the universe is mostly made of dark matter and dark energy and these drive its ever increasing speed of expansion. Essentially, the Big Bang has not yet ended. All " normal" matter (read "atoms and sub atomic particles") that exists in "our" universe is an expression of the interaction between and among this dark field. We are a part of that vibratory activity and thus we share in and can tap into that universal source through mediation and quietening the mind. Every spiritual tradition has its own way of accessing that source which is called by a plethora of names Tao, Dharma, Om. I personally prefer "mystery" and that covers all angles, from quantum physics through "God". The exciting part is that it shows there is a demonstrated scientific connection between what we perceive as reality, both external and internal.. I thought this might be something some of you might find interesting and could think of no more appropriate an audience for it. Please let me know any reactions you might have. I love a good discussion. Always welcome, never expected.

we a programmed to think in terms of beginnings and endings. Maybe the larger picture is endless and always

But they're still doing the good deeds for a selfish reason, whether it's to avoid punishment or to get a pat on the head in the afterlife.

I would love it if people did good for its own sake, nothing more but unfortunately we rarely see that kindness from anyone these days, regardless of religion. Or perhaps I’ve witnessed far too much hypocrisy and selfishness on this planet.

wouldn't laying laurels at the feet(a pat on the head) of nonbelievers for the good and kindness they do cause that person to feel affirmed in their actions and be an encouragement , subconsciously, to continue to engage in those behaviors? Wouldn't it preserve the purity of the act and the person's true intentions by not to recognizing the act so as not to fall into the Christian thinkin of acknowledgement by any being whether real or mythical?

ananda8.

Thank you for your comments and I"m glad you appreciate what I was trying to share. I did read that book a few years ago and forgot that it might be applicable. Guess I need to reread it. Another formative source for my current thought was the 1975 book, The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. I've not yet taken up meditation, but I get a real sense of connection and centering when I do Tai-Chi and Chi-Gong. I'd love to experience that transcendence sometime. However there have been rare times, mostly when listening to music while driving through mountainous country on a beautiful day, when I experience pure joy. I don't know where it comes from nor do I care. I view it as a gift from the universe that inspires and keeps me going. And I am grateful.

Fiddleman, Hope you don't mind me answering your question based on my experience, but yes, one can experience jhana without having a teacher for meditation.  I never had a teacher.  If I practiced more, I would most likely be able to repeat the experience.  The key is concentration and it takes a focused mind. I want to make it clear that this is not a spiritual experience in the sense that it is out there.  What happens is happening in the brain itself. Here is an article on meditation's affect on the brain. It's from the National Institute of Health/PubMed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2944261/

I have to catch up on my reading. I agree with the above statement that we are only human. When I do something kind such as sending my nephew's and niece's checks for their birthdays or holidays I appreciate an acknowledgement. Part of it I believe it's good manners and the other part is an affirmation that the gesture is appreciated. I don't always need it but there are times I do. We are complex creatures.

ananda-yea.

BGRS -- great username!!

Ananda8

I absolutely do not mind your input and thanks for the reference. I'm pretty well convinced of the neurologal basis for what we experience, both through the inner perception of reality as well as outer. After all, all living things appear, biologically speaking, as coordinated conglomerations of unbelievably complex chemical reactions, packaged in structures that maintain their continuation (homeostasis) in the environment to which they have adapted.

When I was a devout R.C., I used to balk at the quotes like, "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." (Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act II Scene 2) and "Man is the measure of all things...." (Protagarous, Refutations). I thought them pompous, hubristic and heretical. How dare mere humans to deny an external "God of Power" beyond human comprehension?

My current thinking is that they express a deeper "truth", i.e. since everyone thinks differently, everyone's reality is different. I still think that an unknowable power exists (e.g. dark matter and dark energy). After all we perceive it through our senses, which are, by definition, limited. But that power is not separate from us, but flows through all the universe, us included. Quieting the mind blocks the filter of "thought" and allows us to perceive something described over the millennia as transcendent. Perhaps it is exactly like the state Santabarbarian describes above as that of a baby's bliss. Perhaps we're all looking for a glimpse of what we were, before "We" were "we" and what "we" may ultimately become.

Now, re the other raging topic, the underlying basis for altruism, my 2 cents worth, and for what that's worth in today's market, is "Always welcome. Never expected."

This is my siggy on one of my email acts. A sister here was using it.