Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

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  • Wren44
    Wren44 Member Posts: 8,585
    edited January 2019

    I like that. Especially 'deliver us from denial of logic'. That seems to be needed badly right now.

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  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited January 2019

    AliceBastable,  I am sorry I offended you by posting that poem.  It was not my intention to proselytize but rather to share a philosophy that is not well known in the West or if it is known it is distorted.  To make up for it, here is a quote from another philosopher, Epicurus. 


    1. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    2. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    3. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    4. Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
     
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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    ananda- I enjoyed both poems. I like content which makes me think.

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  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited January 2019

    jo6359, Thank you.  :)


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  • AliceBastable
    AliceBastable Member Posts: 3,461
    edited January 2019

    I like both the atheist "prayer" and the Epicurus quote. I don't mind a good quote or occasional poem or short essay from any source, as long as there is a balance and it's not too weighted to just one source.

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  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited January 2019

    Nan - I too say 'I'll keep them (you) in my thoughts'. Sometimes I say 'holding you in the light'.

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  • JoE777
    JoE777 Member Posts: 628
    edited January 2019

    If there is evil and good, howare they defined?

    Who defines them?

    Are their definitions subjective or absolute objective truth?

    This always intrigues me. Jo


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  • Springflowers
    Springflowers Member Posts: 85
    edited January 2019

    Thanks everyone now I have a plan of what to say next time. The baby is doing well without my prayer lol. I love the Epicurus quote, puts into words what I have been thinking.

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  • Wren44
    Wren44 Member Posts: 8,585
    edited January 2019

    I always wish for the best possible outcome, whatever that may turn out to be.

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  • DivineMrsM
    DivineMrsM Member Posts: 9,620
    edited January 2019

    This is my personal opinion. When someone is in distress and reaches out, asking for prayer, for their need or someone else's need, it isn't the time to assert my beliefs or non-beliefs into the conversation. In as much as I wouldn't say, “everything's gonna be alright", I also would not feel any need to impress upon that person at that time that I don't believe in the power of prayer. Why make it about me when they are distraught? It is simple enough to say that whomever the request is for,I will keep them in my thoughts and hope for the best outcome.


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  • Springflowers
    Springflowers Member Posts: 85
    edited January 2019

    Thank you Divine, no I would never say that either, I just don't want to be disingenuous, balance between honest yet empathetic. For so many years my answer would be yes of course I will pray so I have never really thought about it much. I do often say you are in my thoughts. Christianity comes with it's own language, Christianese I have heard it called and it is hard to shake it, it is also easy to fall back into it. I am happy to be an atheist and want to shake off all the baggage I still carry. Having my husbands very religious family here over the holidays was interesting, always trying to win us back to the fold. They use guilt and shame but this time I was in a good place and it did not bother me, I am finally at peace and I am able to be myself and not defensive. I am seeing them from a different point of view now it is nice. I hope that makes sense. It is a difficult journey out of a cult, and a cult it was, but I am breathing fresh air now.

    Love the support!

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  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited January 2019

    I find it is possible to pray without praying to anyone.  The Cambridge Dictionary has an interesting definition for the word pray: 

    "to hope for something very much."  


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  • Egads007
    Egads007 Member Posts: 1,603
    edited January 2019

    In that case I’ll ‘pray’ to Cambridge for a lottery win and a pass on income taxes this year from the CRA!

    ;).


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  • TB90
    TB90 Member Posts: 992
    edited January 2019

    I agree in not making it about me, but cannot provide false reassurances or promises either. Sometimes, I lightly state that "he" might not listen to me now but what else can I do to help support you. If someone asked you to drag a buffalo from pins in your back to support you, would you agree? That is another spiritual practise. I have to be honest to my beliefs and support them with a genuine offer.

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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    I'm comfortable with " I'll keep blank in my thoughts". My friends know my belief system. If the situation is dire such as a family member or friend who is hospitalized or dead I don't feel I need to tell my family " God isn't listening to you now". I'd rather say nothing at all. Each of us have to be true to ourselves.

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  • magiclight
    magiclight Member Posts: 8,690
    edited January 2019

    I am as entitled to my belief that there is no God as another is to h/her belief that there is a God or Gods. I also have the right to voice my opinion in the socio/political arena and oppose those whose faith flies in the face of science and reason. However, when a friend, not some unspecified stranger, needs the comfort of h/her belief in God in a time of personal grieving, I believe that the compassionate thing to do is allow them that small comfort without inserting me and my contradictory beliefs.

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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    magiclight-I agree with you. I enjoy a healthy debate amongst friends. I don't believe in subjugating my belief system to appease others. Once again when it comes to friends and family during a difficult time, I'm willing to take the high road. if I am asked directly about my belief system I won't lie.

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  • Murfy
    Murfy Member Posts: 342
    edited January 2019

    Perhaps this article has already made the rounds, but I found it today and very interesting. For one thing, the strong correlation between being non-Christian and intelligent!

    https://www.prri.org/research/american-religious-l...

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  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited January 2019

    interesting!!

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  • magiclight
    magiclight Member Posts: 8,690
    edited January 2019

    Informative as I do think that the evangelicals throw a lot of weight into the political arena particularly now that the US has an evangelical VP

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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    I don't believe the separation between church and state exist at all in this country. It is a shame.

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  • cityrat
    cityrat Member Posts: 13
    edited January 2019

    In response to someone (can't find the post now, sorry!) who asked you to pray for their baby: My take is if someone says to pray for them in a troubled time, they are interpreting it their way, and you are free to interpret it completely in yours, though the intent and sentiment are completely the same. Yes is a perfectly fine answer. (atheist here, also).

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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    cityrat- or something as simple as" what ever you need during this time".

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  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited January 2019

    One of my main problems with failing to separate church and state, especially now that I've had cancer, is regarding assisted suicide. If someone doesn't want that option because the timing of one's passing should be based on "God's will," I fully support their decision. Just don't deny it to those who don't share that belief. Family members and I live in multiple states, but death with dignity isn't available in any of them.


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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    I fully support assisted suicide with safeguards in place. State laws for the most part remain behind the times. My brother is a minister. He does not support assisted suicide but he does support withholding food and water and discontinuing life support.

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  • Spookiesmom
    Spookiesmom Member Posts: 9,568
    edited January 2019

    Some of you might remember Rosevalley, a sister here. She lived in a western state, where it is legal. She struggled with her own feelings, and what was required from the state was unbelievable. And the cost!! Her family was supportive with her decision.

    If that’s what you want, while you are still in control, you should be able to, with no interference from church or state

    She was stage 4, and earned her wings.

    RIP Rose

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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    spookiesmom- I fully support safeguards being in place where abuse won't be an issue. There still needs to be a simpler process which is less expensive and doesn't require the ill person or immediate family members to jump through a thousand hoops. The process is already extremely painful for all involved.

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  • TB90
    TB90 Member Posts: 992
    edited January 2019

    Change will only come about in serious issues if the acceptance of beliefs is challenged. Christianity has been seen so long as the "proper" belief, that it remains incorporated into politics, education and even business in America. If we cannot admit we do not pray for fear of offending someone, who are the advocates for change? Integrity and honesty does not threaten kindness and sympathy

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  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited January 2019

    One of the things I like about Canadian politics is we have no idea what religion most of them are. It never comes up. We also don't have a lot of requests or offers of prayer. I think to many here it seems like TMI or something personal that people keep to themselves. I have built some great friendships with men and women at a cancer centre here and I don't know whether any of them have religious beliefs. It doesn't come up.

    I don't even know what members of my family believe except the one who became American (and incidentally voted for trump). :-) I have a huge family and although only the one attends church there might be others who believe in a god.

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  • jo6359
    jo6359 Member Posts: 2,279
    edited January 2019

    TB90- My Christian , Jewish and Muslim friends all tell me they pray for me. My friends know I don't believe in prayers. We have very healthy debates about religion. My friends also strongly believe religion needs to be taken out of politics. My beliefs do not stop them from praying for me and their prayers don't matter to me at all. It would be wonderful if integrity and honesty does not threaten kindness and empathy. Depending on the individuals perspective sometimes it is perceived as a threat. Thanks for providing me with some additional food for thought.

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