Delaying Chemo 30+ Days Linked to Worse Outcomes for Triple-Neg

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Moderators Member Posts: 25,912

Delaying Chemotherapy More Than 30 Days Linked to Worse Outcomes for Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
December 18, 2018

People diagnosed with early-stage, triple-negative breast cancer who waited more than 30 days after surgery to start chemotherapy had a higher risk of recurrence and worse survival than people who started treatment within 30 days after surgery. Read more...

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  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited December 2018

    I wasn't triple negative but pr receptor negative 0% er 95%, my oncologist pushed hard for immediately starting chemo. He would not agree to a 2 week delay. I think what I have been reading is the absence of progesterone receptors in er positive cancers behaves more like triple negative. Most of the recurrences happen in the first couple years after surgery they tend to be more aggressive. If you are in good health and sufficiently healed from surgery I believe that most oncologists suggests immediate treatment.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2018

    So my sister is triple negative. She had a lumpectomy on Nov 3, then they told her she needed a rescission. It was scheduled for the Dec. 28th (yesterday) but she became sick so it's rescheduled for Jan 10. She's had no radiation or chemo yet (both recommended).

    So, according to this article, because of the delays over 30 days after surgery, she has a higher risk of recurrence (the cancer coming back) and worse survival than people who started treatment within 30 days after surgery.??

    Which surgery do you start counting from; the first or the second?

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2018

    My sister, who is triple negative, had a lumpectomy on Nov 3, then they told her she needed a rescission. It was scheduled for the 28th (yesterday) but she became sick so it's rescheduled for Jan 10. She's had no radiation or chemo yet (both recommended).

    So, according to this article, because of the delays over 30 days after surgery, she has a higher risk of recurrence (the cancer coming back) and worse survival than people who started treatment within 30 days after surgery?!?!

    Which surgery do you start counting from; the first or the second surgery?

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited December 2018

    viewfinder, most TNBC is high grade (3) and very fast growing. If your sister's cancer is Grade 1, that's good news, and that may be why there is less of a hurry? But help her push to get firm answers. It can be hard to be our own advocates and push all the time. I have pushed my treatment team every step of the way and been a bit of a pain in the ass but it seems like the patient is the only one who is really URGENT to get stuff done!


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2018

    Thanks, santabarbarian!

    I don't fully understand her report and it's a screen shot so I can't cut and paste.

    She has IDC grade 3 of 3.

    The lymph nodes were negative for metastatic carcinoma.

    I feel like I may be pushing her too much; she doesn't seem to want to talk about it much. I asked her for the number of chemo and radiation treatments some time ago, and she's never told me. I guess I should back off.

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited December 2018

    Ten-year disease-free survival rates were:

    • 81.4% for people who started chemotherapy within 30 days of surgery
    • 68.6% for people who started chemotherapy 31 to 60 days after surgery
    • 70.8% for people who started chemotherapy 61 to 90 days after surgery
    • 68.1% for people who started chemotherapy more than 90 days after surgery
    I wonder why the odds are better for 61 to 90 days vs. 31 to 60 or more than 90 days? I haven't looked at the underlying study, but it seems like stage and grade would play a role?
    I'm in the 61 to 90 days bucket. Clearly, I need to rev up my time machine so I can: 1) make the surgeon take out lots more tissue to avoid DCIS showing up in my original tumor margin causing a two-week delay for a second surgery, and 2) not let my surgeon drain my seroma since that caused a nasty infection ultimately requiring a PICC line & 2 weeks of IV antibiotics. I live near a large city and it's frightening how difficult it was to find an infectious disease specialist to supervise the IV process. That alone wasted time.

    These studies can be useful to try to add a sense of urgency for our medical teams, but they also increase anxiety when circumstances beyond our control force a deviation from the ideal. 😧

    Lyn

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2018

    Thanks for the stats Lyn. Indeed, very interesting. Yes, I understand what you mean by anxiety. I don't really have any for myself, then again, I'm almost 75 and am prepared (I think) for whatever the future holds.

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited December 2018

    Your pathology looks very promising, viewfinder. I hope all goes well for you.

    Lyn

  • Cllpvh
    Cllpvh Member Posts: 1
    edited January 2019

    I am so sad about reading the new studies about postingponing chemo for more than 30 days after surgery. I had my surgery and was unable to get an appointment with a medical oncologist until 6 weeks post surgery. ( I live in a major city not a small town). My surgeon reassured me that was not a problem, that I had to heal from the surgery for at least 6 weeks. ( bilateral mastectomy). I healed quickly and uneventfully. I would have gladly started chemo sooner. I even requested a port be placed at the time of surgery so I can start chemo ASAP. I feel like she has jeopardized my life

  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited January 2019

    Cllpvh, we understand how upsetting this can be to read. Doctors try to make the best decisions possible with the knowledge and guidelines that they have at the moment. As research comes out, protocols change. Your doctor was probably following what was common practice at that time? Perhaps this is something you could discuss however at the next visit.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    Dear Moderators and others,

    Should I tell my sister to push for getting chemo sooner, since her first surgery was Nov. 3 and her second surgery will be Jan 10th?! It's more than 30 days already!

    Forgive me, but I'm getting a little panicked for her. When she found out I had cancer, she called me every single day going forward. Since discovering she has cancer she doesn't speak about her own very much, except give me dates for the surgery. She promised me two months ago to tell me how many treatments they are recommending (chemo, radiation), but never has!

    I suppose I should let this all roll off my back but it's easier said than done.

  • Winelvr1
    Winelvr1 Member Posts: 12
    edited January 2019

    Hi, I just had a lumpectomy on December 19th and I am currently waiting for the oncologist to call me with an appt. Should I be worried?

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited January 2019

    It can be difficult to get things scheduled around the holidays, but it can't hurt to call and advocate for yourself.

    Lyn

  • VL22
    VL22 Member Posts: 851
    edited January 2019

    My chemo was delayed by 2 weeks due to an infection. I blamed myself for months because I went swimming. I was furious with my hubby because he said he put chlorine in the water, but he didn’t check it and the pump was broken. I had myself in an emotional tizzy! All of this because of this study!

    Obviously, advocate for yourself to get chemo as quickly as possible. However, realize that these studies can be flawed or easily misinterpreted. For example, it makes no sense at all that the survival for 31-60 days is worse than the next one. Also, early stage is usually defined as all stages but stage 4. Does this study take into account the overall health of the patients? Some chemo delays are due to underlying health issues. And I’ve seen many cases on these threads of women getting chemo ASAP after surgery who are stage 1 who go on to stage 4.

    I guess my point is for those of us who are already past this treatment there is no benefit to worry

  • carmonique
    carmonique Member Posts: 2
    edited January 2019

    My doctor is pushing Chemo first and surgery later. Is anyone else experienceing that? We are told surgery is not what is recommended for TNBC but everywhere I read I see something different. We are very confused.

  • Trishyla
    Trishyla Member Posts: 1,005
    edited January 2019

    Carmonique,

    Chemo first, surgery after is the standard protocol for triple negative breast cancer. I believe the reasoning is that since chemo was the only treatment available for our cancer, they wanted to be able to monitor our response to it by measuring residual tumor at the time of surgery. If the tumor is gone (pathologically complete response) then no other treatment was offered. If tumor cells remain after the initial chemo, then more chemo is indicated, usually Xeloda in pill form.

    That regime is starting to change because of new breakthroughs in immunotherapy and other treatments (SERMS?) on the horizon.

    Wishing you all the best.

    Trish

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited January 2019

    carmonique,

    the only tnbc they take out first is if it is stage one and not into lymphatic system yet.

    I recently completed chemo, and my lumpectomy was last week. Yesterday I found out that I had no live cancer in my tissue... pCR!!

    It seemed counter intuitive to leave the tumor inside me at first.... but the upside is knowing the chemo was lethal to my cancer.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    Trishyla, You wrote: "Chemo first, surgery after is the standard protocol for triple negative breast cancer."

    Is there a reason why standard protocol would not be followed?

    My sister, who is triple negative, is having her second breast surgery (excision) on January 10, followed by Chemo the third week in February, then radiation.

  • VL22
    VL22 Member Posts: 851
    edited January 2019

    viewfinder - I wouldn’t call it standard procedure. I went to a top tier cancer hospital in Philadelphia and knew many women with TNBC who had surgery prior to chemo, especially if tumor was small

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    Thanks VL22. Don't think it was too large. Her pathology report has several number in mm, and I don't want to pick the wrong one.

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