Question re: frequency of biopsies and calcifications

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AMLMom
AMLMom Member Posts: 102
edited November 2018 in Not Diagnosed But Worried

Hello. Im 45 and found myself on the “every six month" cycle 2 years ago after a suspicious mass and biopsy (benign). Since then I have had three more appointments. The first resulted in another biopsy of same breast (benign). I skipped the next appointment because I felt that I needed a break. I just had my third appointment last week, which resulted in a call back for two new areas of calcifications in the other breast, one which needs a biopsy. My biopsy is scheduled for next week. Also, I have very dense breasts.

My questions are: 1) is it normal to have regular biopsies? My husband said that maybe it's just part of aging and we are at that stage now. And 2) does a new area of calcifications (1 cm) have approx 80% chance of being benign? Does the fact that it's a new area change the probability at all?

Thank you!!!

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  • Recap
    Recap Member Posts: 120
    edited November 2018

    I would like more info on this topic also. Let us know what they tell you. I cannot find any medical articles about this particular wrinkle.

    My clustered microcalcs were removed/benign, but then, at my 6 mos f/u for reimaging, I had new cluster(s)--they didn't tell me how many.

    Their assumption that these new ones also are benign and don't need biopsy, because the location is the same, concerns me greatly. I am now on a 1yr recall basis. My breasts are not dense.

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Hi.  I had my biopsy this afternoon.   I tried to ask the questions noted in my original post, but it was awkward given that I was lying on a table on my stomach at the time with my breast hanging through a hole in the table at the time.   That was the only time I was given the opportunity to speak with him.  I didn't see him come in as I was already facing the wall when he came in and he was gone by the time they finished.   With respect to the frequency of biopsies, the doctor said simply that it appears that's the hand that I was given (which in my view, by the way isn't so bad relative what others are handed).  With respect to my question on calcifications, he just said that some are obviously cancer and some are obviously not, and there is a huge range between where it's not so obvious and that's where I fall....so he didn't really answer my question.

    I did ask the radiologist to walk me through the enhanced images and it showed exactly what you would expect it to show based on the original report... a small area which appeared to be the size of a dime or so (but not so perfectly round) with numerous small calcifications.  Overall, I don't know any more today than I knew yesterday.

    So...trying to focus on other things and I guess we will see in a week~

  • keepthefaith
    keepthefaith Member Posts: 2,156
    edited November 2018

    AML,have you been offered other imaging options? Are you getting 3D mammos? I would also ask about the potential scar tissue that the biopsies may be causing and if that would make future imaging more difficult. Have you had U/S's and MRI's? Best wishes for benign results!:) Keep asking until you get the answers you need!

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Hi Keepthefaith and DJMammo. Thank you so much for your posts. I haven’t been offered any additional imaging, but I will ask about that at my next doctor appointment. I will also ask about scarring. Both great questions, thank you!

    I received the report for the additional mammogram imaging. Basically a 1cm cluster with some linear branching classified as indeterminate. I suspect the calcifications relate to fibrocystic change because my breasts feel swollen and full all the time now - like im pregnant again :) Maybe I’m overconfidentnow because of my previous benign results?

    I will post when I get my results. Thank you again.

  • canadaliz
    canadaliz Member Posts: 37
    edited November 2018

    Hello, I'm Liz in Canada and was diagnosed with BC in Jan/18. Lumpectomy end of March, rads, TM. Went for my routine screening end of October and had to return for a biopsy. We knew my 'healthy' breast was riddled with calcifications but now there is some concern about a specific area. During the biopsy the radiologist inserted a 2mm 'surgical marker' which I was told makes it easier for the surgeon to find if pathology determines the area to be malignant. My question is do they only insert a marker if they have a strong suspicion that there is cancer present in the breast? I am running on empty as my Mum is nearing the end of her life journey and I am hardly sleeping between trying to keep up with life and comfort Mum. It just can't be cancer again. I just need more time before I can face it again. Any guidance would be so very much appreciated. Yours, Liz

  • TalBirad4
    TalBirad4 Member Posts: 13
    edited November 2018

    Djmammo, do you have an answer for candaliz? I'm also curious...

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Canada Liz, I am so sorry for what you are going through.I was told that the marker is needed to simply mark the area so that they know where to look for follow up imaging, procedures, etc. In my case I only have two area with calcifications and calcifications remained after the biopsy so they didn’t need a marker since it’s obvious where the area is. In your case, I’m assuming that they need the marker since there are so many areas of calcifications and they don’t want to lose the spot they tested. Best wishes to you.
  • TalBirad4
    TalBirad4 Member Posts: 13
    edited November 2018

    my mom had a biopsy done on Tuesday and she only had one cluster of calcifications. They just put it in so they can find the site of the calcs provided if they need to go back to the site to take out more...but now I'm worried they may know it's malignant and that is why they put it after reading some replies here....but then again, a friends mom had the same procedure and hers turned out benign. So I'm uncertain.

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited November 2018

    canadaliz et al

    The biopsy marker placement is a routine and necessary part of the biopsy procedure. On the day of the biopsy it lets the radiologist know if the correct spot has been biopsied before the patient leaves the facility. If the biopsy is abnormal, in association with a localization wire placed by the radiologist preoperatively, it shows the surgeon exactly where the abnormality is located. When the removed breast tissue is radiographed, the presence of the marker on the images serves to document that the correct area of breast tissue was removed. Not all abnormalities are palpable and sometimes all the calcs are removed during a biopsy so without the marker there may be no way to find and remove the target. If the biopsy is benign, the marker acts as a "do not disturb" sign. It avoids you being called back for the same abnormality should you have subsequent imaging at a center that does not yet have your old studies for comparison. Since there is no visible scarring from core biopsies one cannot count on being able to tell where the prior biopsy was done without the marker. The markers come in many different shapes so that each biopsy site can be distinguished from the others on imaging. The are sterile, chemically inert, and MRI safe. Some have material that make them highly visible on US, and some have material to stop oozing at the biopsy site. If you have sensitivities to certain metals tell your doctor as they are not all titanium. Some non-metallic materials used in some markers are of animal origin so tell your doctor if you prefer to avoid animal products.


  • TalBirad4
    TalBirad4 Member Posts: 13
    edited November 2018

    what a thorough response. Thanks, DjMammo.

  • canadaliz
    canadaliz Member Posts: 37
    edited November 2018

    Thank you all so much for your prompt and thoughtful responses. DjMammo, thank you for such a complete review! My anxiety is now reduced knowing that, while it might be another malignancy, the marker is just a part of comprehensive care and monitoring. Thank you again, Liz

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    I’m very nervous now - irrationally so! I was supposed to receive my biopsy results tomorrow first thing but the doctor called to say that she doesn’t have the results so I will wait until Friday. The calcifications were Birad 4. 2 clusters: first grouped in upper outer quadrant extending over 1 cm some of which demonstrate linear branching morphology (biopsied) and another more loosely grouped in the retroareolar region that extend over 0.9cm and are less suspicious.

    Thoughts??? Linear branching sounds bad

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited November 2018

    AMLMom

    True linear branching calcifications can be associated with DCIS. If there is no associated mass, the likelihood of a component of invasive cancer goes down but not to zero.

    Let us know what the biopsy shows, you can post the path report here if you'd like.

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Thank you DJ Mammo. I’m curious, would the description about sound like true linear branching calcifications? I wasn’t sure because it said “some” and because of the size. Thank you

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited November 2018

    AMLMom

    I'm sorry I don't understand your question.

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    sorry DJMammo, I can see why my note didn’t make sense! I just meant that my mammo results say that the calcifications extend over 1 cm only and that only some of the calcifications are linear branching .... so I just wasn’t sure weather this is quite as worrisome as if it hadn’t said “some” are linear branching and if there had been a large run area of calcifications. I hope my results come in today. Thank you again

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited November 2018

    AMLMom

    The difference might be in the extent of dcis but if there is any fine linear branching calcification present, then one would suspect the presence of dcis.

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    thank you for your quick reply DJ Mammo. That definitely helps me manage expectations! I guess I will expect the worst and hope for the best

  • Michelle_in_cornland
    Michelle_in_cornland Member Posts: 1,689
    edited November 2018

    AMLMom, you need to see a breast specialist - surgeon. If you have so many recurring biopsies, then you should demand to see a specialist. The surgery onc specialist, is the one you want to see. When they look at your results, their recommendation might be different. If you are diagnosed with DCIS, then surgery and treatment are appropriate. Some how, you need to get out of the frequent biopsy cycle.

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Thank you very much Michelle. Either way, I will take your advice and ask to speak with a breast surgeon. I'm trying to stay optimistic with respect to the biopsy results, but either way, I don't want this stress every six months.


  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Here are the pathology results. I haven't discussed with the doctor yet. My appointment is on Friday (I received the results real-time via the on-line patient portal). I guess it says some combination or ambiguity between high grade DCIS / LCIS? I can't reconcile the size of the biopsied tissue to the 1 cm area of calcifications. I will discuss that with the doctor on Friday.

    ****

    Diagnosis: in situ carcinoma with high grade nuclei and calcification

    Gross description: The specimen labeled with the patient's name and as "Breast: Left core biopsy left breast stereo vacuum Bx 12G" consists of multiple fragments and core-like pieces of tissue measuring from 0.1 - 4.0cm - 0.2cm, received in 10% buffered formalin.

    Microscopic Description: Sections show fragmented cores of breast tissue containing carcinoma in situ (CIS) with high grade nuclei (nuclear grade 3/3), confluent central (comedo) necrosis and calcification. The CIS is solid and cancerisation of lobules is extensive. The differential diagnosis of this lesion lies between ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS) and pleomorphic lobular carcinoma in situ (PLCIS). There is no evidence of invasive carcinoma in the multiple levels (x3/block) examined. Inmmunohistochemistry for E-cadherin is pending and will be reported as an addendum.

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited November 2018

    AMLMom, the Ecadherin test will determine the ductal vs lobular question. Absence of ecadherin = lobular

  • Michelle_in_cornland
    Michelle_in_cornland Member Posts: 1,689
    edited November 2018

    AMLmom, the good news is that it is "in situ" and not invasive. Doctors will determine if surgery is necessary along with any anti hormonal treatment, if it is estrogen and progesterone positive. I do extremely well on Tamoxifen, and will probably take it for 10 years. It is good to have a diagnosis, I am sure. and is better than waiting every six months for it to potentially become more than it is. If you have any questions, you can message me.

  • AMLMom
    AMLMom Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2018

    Thank you so so much! I may take you up on that offer 😌.

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