er+ pr- her2- onca 25 Chemo or not

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henry8
henry8 Member Posts: 3
edited September 2018 in IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)

i was diagnosed in early June with DCIS but after surgery they found IDC 8mm er+pr-her2- grade 2. Also did a node surgery and took out three all negative. So they sent off for onca score which came back a 25. I have one doctor that recommended chemo but went for a second opinion and they said because of Tailor x that I didnt need Chemo. Problem is tailor x mostly is for er+pr+her2-. Chemo or not?????

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  • TomMorrow
    TomMorrow Member Posts: 43
    edited August 2018

    My wife had a similar diagnosis. She is ER+ (90%) and PR+, but only at 5%. She had 6mm IDC, grade 1 (mitotic score of 1). Her lymph node tested was also clear. Her oncotype score was 23.

    We went to two oncologists. The first recommended against chemo for the following reasons. First TailorX study shows that scores between 11-25 had no significant differences with and without chemo. Although the study suggests that women 50 and under may benefit from chemo, the study was not designed to perform a subgroup analysis. My wife is closer to the arbitrary age cutoff. When thinking about a subgroup benefit, the doctor said we need to consider more factors. Other than the low PR, none of her tumor characteristics show an aggressive, fast growing tumor which is generally better for chemo benefits. While there could be a benefit in the 2-3% range, he thought the risks of chemo likely outweigh the potential benefits. The second oncologist was at a major NCI cancer center. He agreed with our primary oncologist and, based on my wife's particular characteristics, said it may be best to focus on a more aggressive hormone therapy, using an AI and ovarian suppression (assuming my wife is not in menopause, which they are testing now). You can find a more detailed summary of how we made the decision in this thread (the thread in general may be useful for you since you are PR-). https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/137/topic...

    To me, the decision was very difficult. I thought either decision would be the wrong one. But, at the end of the day, we took the recommendations of our oncologists and went straight to radiation, which my wife is currently undergoing. Because you have a difference in view, I would ask each what they are basing their recommendation on, then go back to the other and have them address those differences.

    Others have recommended getting the Mammaprint test, which generally doesn't have the dreaded gray zone on whether chemo is beneficial or not. Both of our oncologists recommended against this test in my wife's case, but it may be worth exploring with your doctors.



  • Vera66
    Vera66 Member Posts: 54
    edited August 2018

    Is the mammaprint a possibility? My doctor recommended the mammaprint as it does not have the intermediate issue. The other nice thing about this test is that it can tell you if you are a luminal a or a luminal b. I was classified as a luminal b, so that meant chemo. Luminal a's have a better prognosis and do not see much benefit from chemo. Not sure how much this test would be to pay out of pocket, but it left me feeling more comfortable with the decision to have chemo.

  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited August 2018

    I was never tested specfically for luminol A or B, I asked my oncologist. He said our labs don't look at that. He pointed to my pr being negative as the worse prognosis. But hey the studies are finding AI drugs to be very effective for my case bringing me to being equal to er+ pr+. Many doctor's still not convinced and fall back on chemo. I had an oncodx of 34, but I did AI not chemo, 7 years out.

  • Bostoniangal25
    Bostoniangal25 Member Posts: 263
    edited August 2018

    have s question : for which hormonal status they offer msmmaprint test- for triple negative or for er positive?

    I m 41, er pr positive, her 2 negative , but grade3, stage1, I had a tiny micromet in 1 lymph node- I m doing chemo TC , even it’s will give me6-7% for survival . I saw the leading specialist director of breast oncology and was suggested chemo

  • gkbuser
    gkbuser Member Posts: 348
    edited September 2018

    Tom, if it makes you feel any better I'm treated at the University of Iowa which is an NCI Center. They would agree with your oncologist skip the chemo and go for the anti hormonal!

  • PatsyKB
    PatsyKB Member Posts: 272
    edited September 2018

    Henry8 -

    My oncotype number was 24 (I'm also HR+/PR-/HER2-); IDC; very small tumor; no node involvement; stage 1, grade 1; post-menopausal (WAY post...I'm 67).

    It's important to remember that many medical oncologists treat HR+/PR-/HER2- the same way they treat HR+/PR+/HER2- . I decided not to overthink it and drive myself crazy.

    The TayloRX study came out just before I received my Oncotype score - good timing. Bummed as I was that the test hadn't given me a definitive answer, I pressed my oncologist who, instead of telling me what to do, gave me all the possible information I needed in order to make my mind up. I really appreciated that and benefitted, I believe, from being treated as a partner and an adult. He said that if I chose not to do chemo, we'd move right into using an AI shown to be very effective for patients like me (post-menopausal), Letrozole (generic Femara) in preventing recurrence. He pointed out that my absolute benefit from chemo, if I chose to go that way, would be so minimal that it could be negated by the very likely side effects from chemo. Naturally, I wanted more opinions. My primary care physician's opinion was that I should forego chemo. I also contacted a second oncologist in my local office of my primary oncologist's practice; her opinion was a definite "no chemo."

    So I feel strong and good about my decision. For those of us who are post-menopausal, the AI's have been shown to be so much more effective than tamoxifen that that alone gives me confidence.

    Does Letrozole carry the risk of side effects? Yes. But so far I am not having any side effects (nearly 100 days on it now). If I do and if they became intolerable, we have a couple more drugs we can try. My MO did take the precaution of having a bone scan and, because of those results, putting me on twice-a-year Prolia shots to reduce further bone loss (and, hopefully, build bone mass). He also put me on additional calcium and vitamin D and I consulted with his in-house nutritionist in order to fine-tune my already healthy and primarily plant-based diet.

    That's where I am...I'm sure that if I'd gone with chemo I would feel just as good about my decision. My husband and I decided at the beginning of this to own our decisions and not to let "creeping doubt" enter into it.

    Good luck, henry8, and keep us posted.

  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited September 2018

    Patsy, I wouldn't do chemo in your position, mine was similar with a 34 oncodx and I chose AI drugs. Still NED 7 years out. I was 53 at dx a little younger but in good health. I think AI drugs are more effective than tamoxifen especially for er+ pr-.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited September 2018

    So Meow, you got your MRI results? Congratulations!


  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited September 2018

    marijen, I still have not heard my results. I think that is good news. I should call next week. I don't have mychart setup, they want your social security number to set it up I think I'll pass and wait for the doctor.

    Two years ago when they found something I had a phone message by the time I got back home from my MRI. They are really fast.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited September 2018

    You’re probably right. They post my scan reports pretty quick either way. With mammagrams and ultrasounds I know before I leave. How did you get them to do an MRI every year? I want that! All I get is a CEA and mammo.


  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited September 2018

    I don't know why insurance pays. But I was told by radiologists my mammograms are not adequate for me due to extremely dense tissue. My oncologist seems to get my insurance to cover it.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited September 2018

    Thanks Meow, I don’t have the density problem. I was thinking you get full body MRIs to watch for mets. Not even sure if there are full body ones, now that I think of it. Do you get tumor marker tests?


  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited September 2018

    No just breast mris. Yes everytime I see oncologist they do blood work.

  • ktab96
    ktab96 Member Posts: 126
    edited September 2018

    In 2011 I was diagnosed with IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- My Onco score was 18. I was told I was on the borderline of needing chemo. I elected not to have chemo because I was stage 1 and my lymph nodes were clear. Seven years later I am still cancer free. It was recommended I take hormone suppressant meds for 10 years. I took Femara for the first three years after surgery/radiation and then Anastrozole for 2 years. I am currently taking Tamoxifen for the remaining 5 years. I have had no recurrence to date.

  • henry8
    henry8 Member Posts: 3
    edited September 2018

    Thanks to all your responses. I finally made the decision to not do chemo. I am almost done with radiation and the will start hormone therapy.

    How bad are the side effects of the AI?? Supposed to leave for a cruise and doctor said to start on trip but worried I will get sick from meds. Any input on this??

  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited September 2018

    For me the side effects were cumulative I tried to get through the achy joints. I did the treadmill 1hr everyday religiously. One day I felt I couldn't get out of bed. Called oncologist went on different medication that caused weight gain and severe dry eye. Almost 3 years off that stuff feeling much better.

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