Tram vs DIEP

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sarahg123
sarahg123 Member Posts: 3
edited July 2018 in Breast Reconstruction

I received a bilateral mastectomy in 2014 with immediate reconstruction--tissue expanders and ultimately TEs were exchanged for saline implants. Ever since the process I have continued to have pain in the radiated, cancer affected side. Once the TEs were exchanged I received some relief, but now, I wake up several times a night with significant pain and feeling as thought the implant "is stuck" I have to massage it and eventually find some relief. I continue to have pain down my arm, as well. Now, even slight reaching or movement results in the same pain. The initial PS basically said nothing could be done, that if he went back in, due to radiated skin I could end up worse. The implants also look disfigured, wrinkling, and ripply. After much discussion with my oncologist, she suggested seeking out a new PS to discuss options. I met with one who stated that saline shouldn't have been used and that he would swap them out for silicone, but couldn't guarantee that would help. Second opinion with another PS who initially said swap out the implants, but then after reading my history said to go for a Tram flap using the abdominal muscles and scheduled the surgery for next week (7/20).

I started doing some reading and learned about the DIEP. I was able to get into a consult yesterday with one of the gurus in my area that performs this procedure as has a great reputation. I waited in the waiting room for 2 hours to go in and meet with the PA for maybe 5 minutes, she suggested I should do more physical therapy and "why would I want to put myself through a long intense surgery, when they can't guarantee I will be pain free afterwards?" The PS then came in for a matter of probably 3 minutes saying what do you want to do? Said that he doesn't recommend tram for bilateral reconstruction and that if I wanted to use him I need to go with the DIEP. He isn't able to schedule surgery date until December. He suggested scheduling surgery with one of his colleagues who could get me in sooner and he would assist, since they use two surgeons for the surgery. He then said you can come back another time and talk about it more if you want or if you want to move forward with our practice we can take pictures today. I explained that I lived 2 hours away and wanted to take the pictures in case I went that route. Afterward the surgery scheduler took me back and confirmed his schedule wasn't open until December. When I mentioned what he said about his colleague, she rudely stated 'no, that's not how it works, why wouldn't he just do it himself, obviously if he is this busy he's not going to have time to assist, so do you want to schedule with he or his colleague." I mentioned that I had the tram scheduled for next week and that I would have to discuss with my employer to see if I could get the time off approved in December as opposed to July/August...to which she replied "I don't know what you are looking for, we have urgent patients with active cancer we are trying to schedule, you are not getting in any sooner." I explained I wasn't asking them to get me in urgently, just trying to get an idea of the availability of either of the surgeons. I then asked how many they typically provide--for which she picked up the calendar flipping through and said "a lot." I asked if I could see pictures of their work and was told they don't have any. Needless to say I walked out without scheduling the surgery.

So....my dilemma is do I go with the Tram that I already have scheduled since the surgeon and staff are awesome and sacrifice abdominal muscles or is the DIEP a better procedure, so much so, that I deal with what I perceive as bad customer service and bedside manner of the other PS?? Unfortunately, there are not other DIEP providers that my insurance will cover, and the practice that does this is considered the best medical center in the state. I am worried about all of the issues that the tram can bring with lack of muscle strength impacting sitting, getting out of chairs/bed, etc. I spoke with my general surgeon and he won't make an opinion either way since he isn't experiences in either procedure, my PCP says to go with the tram stating the DIEP is too new?!?

Any insight would be much appreciated as I am so stressed out. Also a huge thanks to anyone taking the time to read all of this...I know it's a lot :(

Comments

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited July 2018

    No, No, No to TRAM flap!! You need those abdominal muscles they’re going to take away. Think about sitting up from a laying down pudituin (like every single morning when you wake up, getting up from a sitting position, etc. That surgeon doing TRAM likely is not a microsurgeon therefore can’t do DIEP. I know you’re ready to go for it but don’t rush it and end up in a potentially worse situation. From your description of the DIEP appointment, I’m not sure I’d go there either. May I ask what city/state do you live in? Perhaps some of us can point your toward another PS that does a fabulous job with DIEP.

  • sarahg123
    sarahg123 Member Posts: 3
    edited July 2018

    Thanks for the reply! I live in Michigan. I've been to several websites and only see a few surgeons listed in Michigan that are trained in DIEP; the majority of which are are the clinic that I went to. What worries me about that clinic, was that each of the people I came in contact with, whether the PA, MD, or scheduling staff were either rushed, rude, or condescending. It felt like being "a number," and not a patient or person. Thanks again for your thoughts :)

  • Runrcrb
    Runrcrb Member Posts: 577
    edited July 2018

    Sarahg123 - my plastic surgeon told me that he considers tram flap close to malpractice in the day and age. Old procedure and yes, you need those muscles where they are. I agree with Lula33 - the plastic surgeon you saw regarding diep and his practice do not sound like a good option. When I had my first consult with my PS (almost 18 mos prior to my DIEP), he spent 30+ minutes answering every question I had. I later ended up with his personal email address and he responded in detail to every question I've asked since. The staff is nice and caring and yes, getting on the DIEP schedule is hard - for a double it's a full day of surgery and yes, two surgeons. Scheduling at this time would be December or next year for my PS too. But, based on what you described, I wouldn't use the PS you saw as my primary surgeon.

    You know how much discomfort you're in and what you're will to do to find an alternative. Another option is to talk to the PS who wants to do tram and ask him/her for recommendations for DIEP surgeons to see if you can find a different practice. This may seem weird but the first PS I saw doesn't do DIEP and she referred me to the surgeon I used.


  • Peregrinelady
    Peregrinelady Member Posts: 1,019
    edited July 2018
    If you can’t find someone else, you could consider NOLA. Many women here are happy with their results. I definitely would not go to the rude group. Surgeons are notorious for no bedside manner, but your description is way beyond that. This is a huge surgery with many follow ups. You need to feel confident that your team is on your side.
  • Leatherette
    Leatherette Member Posts: 448
    edited July 2018

    DIEP is not new. My PS has been doing them for 20 years. Based on what I’ve read/heard, I chose DIEP, but I would not work with a surgery team like the one you described. Sorry you had to deal with them even once.

    Best of luck,

    L.



  • NancyHB
    NancyHB Member Posts: 1,512
    edited July 2018
    Your experience sounds horrible; I’m so sorry that happened to you. I had a unilateral DIEP here in Michigan and love my plastic surgeon (he’s highly regarded and experienced in this particular surgery). My results are fantastic and I’d be happy to refer you to him (my fear is you’re bad experience was at my clinic...I really hope that’s not the case). It’s a long surgery and difficult recovery, but has been completely worth it for me. I can’t speak to TRAM but can’t imagine losing abdominal muscle if not necessary.

    I know you’re in pain and desperate for relief, but you have a little time to make a decision. I encourage you to take your time and get the surgery that's best for you, even if it means waiting until December or going out-of-state, if that’s a possibility.

    Feel free to PM me of you want to share information about the PS or clinic you visited, and I’ll share info about mine.
  • sarahg123
    sarahg123 Member Posts: 3
    edited July 2018

    thank you!! I just sent you a private message

  • mustlovepoodles
    mustlovepoodles Member Posts: 2,825
    edited July 2018

    OMG, Sarah! I think my head just exploded. RUN from this PS! If they are being this way at the front end, I can only imagine the trauma you will be forced to endure if you continue. You really must have a good working relationship with your PS and his practice. It's a little bit like going on a date, and I think you just got the cold shoulder!

    I second the suggestion that you call the Center or Restorative Breast Surgery in New Orleans and discuss your options with them. I haven't had my DIEP yet, but ive talked with a number of people who have had their DIEP done there, with great satisfaction. I called then in June and I'm scheduled for mid-Aug. They have plenty of pics in their website for you. And I don't thInk they even offer the TRAM flap, because it has been shown to be an inferior surgery to DIEP and SGAP.

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