Paleo Pals - Health, Weight Loss & Support

Egads007 · June 2018

*Does a soft shoe act, while juggling 4 tennis balls on a unicycle to distract Map from her work*

**CRASH**

Watch out, the boss is on the way into your office!

Loopy

solfeo · June 2018

Good morning healthy foodies! I have a recommendation for an alternative healthy mayonnaise. I appreciate the recipe for making your own, and I know it's good because I have done it, but there are certain things that are just too inconvenient for me most of the time. Luckily with the popularity of Paleo there are companies coming to the rescue with convenient products we can eat without fear or guilt.

Chosen Foods makes a mayonnaise out of avocado oil, and it comes in plain and several flavors. It's not going to be in most grocery stores, but you can buy it online on their website, or on Amazon and a few other online outlets. They also recently announced that Whole Foods will be carrying it, but I'm not sure when it will make it into the stores. They also make one from coconut oil but I haven't tried it because I really like the avocado variety. It doesn't taste like avocados at all BTW.

The ingredients are: avocado oil, egg yolks, filtered water, organic whole eggs, organic distilled white vinegar, organic honey (adds no carbs so just a tiny bit for flavor), organic mustard, salt, organic rosemary extract.

Egads007 · June 2018

Hey Sof, used it myself in a pinch, it's carried here in grocery stores, but at 13.99 a jar...yikes!!! amazon US ranges from 8 bucks up. Not a fan of the taste either. Again, good option for the super busy or in a pinch!

solfeo · June 2018

It's definitely not as good as my old favorite Best Foods (Hellman's), but in recipes especially you can't really tell the difference. It is expensive - that's the downside for sure, but I'm used to spending way too much on healthy food by now. I figure I either spend the money on clean, healthy food, or on the medical bills!

solfeo · June 2018

Here's my recipe for healthy ranch dressing. Anti-inflammatory because the soybean oil in most commercial salad dressings causes inflammation. High inflammation is a risk factor for breast cancer recurrence.

Non-dairy Anti-inflammatory Ranch Dressing

1/2 cup of avocado oil mayonnaise (or home made)

2 Tbsp coconut milk

1 Tbsp Braggs apple cider vinegar

1 tsp dried parsley, or 2 tsp fresh

1/2 tsp dried dill, or 1 tsp fresh

1/2 tsp garlic powder

1/2 tsp onion powder

1/2 tsp salt

A little stevia to taste

Cracked black pepper to taste

I mix it all together in a glass measuring cup, then pour it into a glass bottle and shake. Makes a little more than half a cup, and will last several days in the fridge. I call it coconut ranch because there is a very slight coconut flavor from the milk. It tastes great and very buttermilk ranch-like, and you stop noticing the coconut when you get used to it.

Another variation is to use half traditional mayo and half Chosen Foods Harissa flavored mayo for a spicy ranch. Or you can just add a little sriracha or other hot sauce.

Egads007 · June 2018

Sof, hear ya there! Paleo can be somewhat of an elitist diet, especially for the hardcore peeps. I've almost danced right in the store over on sale grass fed beef! People pointing and saying 'omg that woman must run a boarding house' when I walk away with a cart load of it LOL! don't even get me going about cassava and almond flour prices! Like you, I still wouldn't go backwards, good health has no price tag. 100% agree!

How hard is it for you to source palm shortening without taking out a second mortgage?

solfeo · June 2018

We do actually spend more on food than housing, or any other expense. Sometimes I even get a little embarrassed when I'm at the checkout, with $300 of all organic healthy food in the cart and it's not even half full. Most people just don't understand and I frequently feel judged on this diet, on several fronts, and most often from other cancer survivors themselves.

I just don't let the naysayers get to me, because I realize that what it boils down to is that they don't know what we know, and there are institutionalized obstacles to acceptance that a layperson like me can't overcome if someone hasn't come to see the light on their own. I have given up on trying to change minds for the most part. I will offer solutions sometimes, because when you have lost as much weight as I have, people feel obligated to tell me why they can't. There are a hundred excuses - all of them addressable - but when I meet the brick wall of "my doctor said I should eat more healthy whole grains, and the research supports that, so you don't know what the hell you are talking about," as they sit there overweight with numerous chronic health problems, and the very obvious evidence of my success and good health isn't enough; I stop wasting my time and migrate to warmer waters.

That is why I am so grateful for your thread here, Egads, because everyone is already open to non-standard ideas or they wouldn't be here. I might actually be able to help someone here. Thanks for starting it.

Best,
solfeo

SpecialK · June 2018

Have you used Just Mayo, I am curious about opinions?

solfeo · June 2018

I wouldn't personally eat it as there are several problem ingredients, from a Paleo standpoint. The ingredients do say may contain soy (maybe just in certain of the flavors), and that's not even the worst of them. The others undesirable ingredients are: canola oil, modified food starch, sugar, pea protein, tapioca maltodextrin, EDTA. It probably won't kill you but mayo made from a healthy oil with fewer additives would be the better choice IMO.

From the link you posted: "Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Water, Modified Food Starches, White Distilled Vinegar, Sugar, Contains less than 2% of Garlic Puree (garlic, citric acid), Lemon Juice Concentrate, Pea Protein, Salt, Spice, Tapioca Maltodextrin, Fruit and Vegetable Juice (color), Calcium Disodium EDTA (preservative). May contain soy."

Edited to add: (you edited out your link, but it was there when I responded https://justforall.com/en-us/products/consumer/mayo/mayo)

solfeo · June 2018

The other thing is, when a food label says something like "spice" but doesn't specify what that is, that often means they are trying to hide something, like various forms of MSG.

HopeandLove · June 2018

During my treatment, my MO referred me to a dietician in her department. I was pre-diabetic at the time and have celiac disease and thought, wrongly, that the dietician would be able to customize a diet for me. Instead I was given a photocopied 1200 calorie-a-day diet that contained more starch than I was already consuming and was full of gluten. I paid $400 for that visit and it was a complete waste of time. That's when I realized I would have to figure things out on my own. I'm not fully keto, but I've eliminated all grains and most fruits and feel good and full of energy.

I'm very grateful for this thread and the research you all have done. Please keep posting recipes, too. I love those!

solfeo · June 2018

Good for you HopeandLove!

Registered Dieticians (most, not all), and The American Diabetes Association are the absolute worst places for anyone to get nutritional advice. It's sad to me, because it's understandable that people would trust these "experts."

I don't think you have to go full keto to get most of the benefits from a Paleo diet. I lost my first 40 lbs eating over keto levels of carbs, prior to DX. When I was diagnosed with cancer my naturopathic doctor who specializes in supportive cancer care, recommended keto almost apologetically, saying that in his experience his patients do better on it. Apologetically because he knows most people find it overly restrictive and hard to stick to. He recommended at the very least following a low-glycemic index diet. In that respect, I think that even on a regular Paleo diet, there are some foods we should limit, like fruit (1-2 servings per day max) and sweet potatoes, in amounts high enough to raise blood sugar.

SpecialK · June 2018

solfeo - I took out the link because I was having trouble getting just the ingredient link without all the other flavored products with my phone, lol! I appreciate your assessment, thanks!

solfeo · June 2018

I mentioned hidden MSG before. MSG is not good for cancer patients. It might not cause cancer directly, but it might promote tumor growth once you have it. I say "might" because as most of you know, very little is conclusively proven about what causes cancer or makes it grow and spread, but there is research that suggests. Better safe than sorry is what I always say.

You might wonder how food makers can get away with it, and it's because they are only required to list MSG as an ingredient when they are adding it in its isolated form. Other ingredients can contain the same chemical (usually formed through some kind of processing), but they don't have to list it as MSG specifically. They deliberately choose other ingredients to enhance flavors that contain MSG, while claiming their product is MSG free. And apparently they sleep well at night doing so.

I'll reproduce a (not exhaustive) list of likely suspects I found online. Some of them definitely contain MSG, and others might depending on how they are processed. Note that the "spice" and other ingredients listed on the "Just Mayo" label are on this list. How do they even call it that with all that other stuff in it? To me that is deliberate food deception. The moral of this story: food labels are often intended to fool you. Don't fall for it. This situation is not hopeless, however. As Egads said, when you eliminate all of the ingredients that are not clearly listed as whole foods in themselves, you also eliminate the problem.

You're going to get some glutamate in your diet if you eat protein. It is an amino acid. On a Paleo diet, many of us make bone broth, and that lengthy cooking process actually frees the glutamic acid from the whole protein (it's in the gelatin that makes bone broth turn solid in the refrigerator), which is what we would usually want to avoid. But my feeling is that there are more benefits than risks to bone broth if you're using a healthy source of animal bones to begin with. The idea is to reduce it as much as possible, and especially in its highly processed forms, that have zero other nutritional benefits.

TwoHobbies · June 2018

Hi Solfeo. You know you'll be welcome here. It is hard to go against the grain, pun intended! Five years ago when I started this I was a little scared to adopt this strategy not knowing if it was the right thing to do. As we all know the "radical" advice for cancer traditionally is vegan, not Keto or Paleo. More evidence is turning up in our favor now. For sure, your pictures and bloodwork tell everyone you are healthier. My husband was diagnosed with diabetes just this spring. He immediately switched to eating only meat, eggs, butter, coconut oil, low glycemic veggies ,watermelon, strawberries and cantaloupe. He has lost 40 pounds and blood sugar is back to normal.

I've done well since my last report in. I did have one cheat. I was in training with lunch provided. I did bring my pecans for breakfast but for lunch I was assessing what I could eat that would keep me full for the afternoon, and went ahead and had 2/3 of the pita sandwich. I got back on the wagon at dinner with chicken, roasted tomatoes and spinach, and watermelon and cantaloupe. Yesterday I did my usual coffee and nuts for breakfast. Lunch was chicken, kale salad with blueberries, almonds, carrots and cabbage. Dinner was baked chicken wings with carrots, celery and a bleu cheese sauce. Geez, I eat a lot of chicken I noticed, so today for lunch I had organic ground beef mixed with onion and mushroom and then some yogurt with blueberries and strawberries. Ate some pistachios while I cooked a dinner of shrimp, roasted carrots, onion and zucchini. I was still a little hungry, so I had a hard boiled egg and a cup of decaf with half and half. Posting my food helps keep me accountable, you don't have to read it if you don't want!

Trish, I can't say what might work for you, but my experience is I can't lose weight when I exercise hard. You might try winding it down to walking 30 to 35 minutes and a little weights and concentrate on the food. And of course make sure you are getting good sleep.

Hope and Love, I think there are some docs and dieticians who are good. My family doc actually says Paleo is good. For sure if I was celiac and came home with materials that contained gluten, I would not be paying for it! That is ridiculous.

Trishyla · June 2018

Thanks Solfeo and Egads for the wonderful support and great advice. I think (fingers and toes crossed) that I may have fat bombed my way past the plateau I'm finally down a few pounds. Just hope I keep heading in the right direction.

Avocados, MCT oil macadamia nuts and good cheese may have done the trick.

Trish

SpecialK · June 2018

solfeo - that’s a great list, there are so many hidden ingredients and reading labels doesn’t always tell the whole story - thanks! Appreciate the help

Egads007 · June 2018

I'm not even going to try to keep track of who said what today lol, but all truly incredible posts! Kudos fellow cave peeps! Ok, so my take on the whole processed food thing, ESPECIALLY for the newbies...keep it simple and it's a no brainer. While shopping, think like a Paleolithic hunter/gatherer. If Grok wouldn't have been able to access what you've just picked up, then it's almost guaranteed you're about to munch on a chemical & insulin spiking, simple carb laden food (reference my earlier unpronounceable ingredients). Assume the worst with processed foods, but if you have to buy them learn to read labels. Look up unrecognizable ingredients before you put them in your cart. You're still not safe, manufacturers are required by law to list ingredients but they don't have to tell the whole story. The chemicals used in the processing aren't listed, and yes, they do leech into the product. Case in point: 'all natural' whey protein powder. The almighty drink of gym rats everywhere is full of leeched carcinogenic processing chemicals. I don't believe that Birdseye or Kraft is a kick in the butt far behind it either. Our ancient ancestors may have died on average at age 35, BUT they rarely suffered from cancer, diabetes, heart disease and the myriad of modern diseases in top place today (proven in isotope studies) Caveman Grok most often died early because of not having the comforts of modern housing (exposure), a local emerg to run to, antibiotics to take, and was regularly brought down by sabre tooth tigers and simple infections. They were very healthy before their demise. Dental investigation of paleo peeps rarely showed decay, just wear from using them as tools...all without the aid of a toothbrush or floss! That is what not eating sugar gave them, teeth that lasted a lifetime, in tandem with pretty good health. They walked everywhere (low moderate cardio) with fast sprints mixed in here and there to escape predators (we know that as HIIT in the gym nowadays). Evolution takes millions of years to occur. We are only 10,000 years ahead of Grok, and our bodies have not come close to evolving to the point of accepting the chemical cocktail food manufacturers toss in a jar or can, if we ever do reach that point! Same goes for wheat/grains/legumes. Plants have no teeth or claws to protect themselves from the insects that gnaw on them...but they do have a defence system in the form of inflammatory substances guaranteed to punch holes in the organs,intestines and joints. I bet Grok felt like death warmed over the first time he ground up wheat and made bread, sprinting off behind the closest boulder to relieve his aching bowels. Humans simply weren't built to eat the paleo no-nos. Once food hit the chemical adding factory assembly floor it doubled our health troubles. Choose real food. It's cheaper, better tasting, more filling and so worth the extra effort. If you can't, choose wisely and intelligently. Jumping off my soapbox and going to make my own mayo LOL!!

Egads007 · June 2018

Hopeandlove - Welcome! great to see you join our small village of support! My first cousin is a celiac, and was diagnosed back before gluten free was available anywhere. My aunt used to have to drive hundreds of miles to obtain products...things have changed thankfully! Have you cut wheat? (Didn’t show on your post). Looking forward to hearing more from you

solfeo · June 2018

I try to eat only whole single-ingredient foods devoid of "nutrition facts" (pretty funny that) labels that I make into my own recipes. The only reason I do bring up some legal processed foods, is because the inconvenience of making everything from scratch can be a deterrent to full compliance and lead to cheating episodes. If you have that frozen grass-fed pre-cooked burger in the freezer and you are starving, it's a much better way to go than the drive-thru when you are tired and tempted to break plan. So I hope it's OK if we continue the discussion about how to decipher food labels, and make healthy choices when we do have to resort to processed foods. There are healthier ways to do it, but a lot of people don't know what they are because of the deliberate deception involved in food marketing.

As one example, almost nothing labeled gluten-free is really good for you, but you might think it's the better choice, because someone didn't tell you that the alternatives they use (like potato starch, tapioca starch, rice flour, etc.) are going to do more damage than if you ate the regular bread. You really shouldn't eat either one. Ever. That is why a lot of gluten free people are still overweight, with diabetes and other chronic health problems.

Choosing minimally processed foods wisely when I can't achieve perfection has been a very important aspect of my program.

Egads007 · June 2018

Sof - It's more than ok to continue discussion of food labels, matter o' fact, I for one welcome it! So please do!! When I started this thread I had the words 'welcoming community' in mind. I wanted it to go beyond losing weight. One of the closing paragraphs from the opening post states:

Join us. Any and all welcome. Keto, Whole30, Mediterranean Diet, Atkins, even the vegetarians are welcome if they can deal with the animal based proteins that will be flung around the posts! Heck, we might all learn something from each other through healthy non-confrontational debate.

My post from last night is just my take on processed foods. I would never state that I don't open jars and cans, I do occasionally. My cupboard might be skimpy on the processed, but there are a few things in there. You speak of tapioca starch, oh that stuff is flying all over my kitchen 2-3 times a year. Here's the thing, I think it's REALLY important that we all DO SPEAK UP and give all our 'takes' on this lifestyle. Just because I don't buy your brand of mayo doesn't mean I can't learn something from your post and what spun off of it yesterday....I think the additive chart was amazing, and the fact that you definitely pointed out that there are wise ways of buying processed. If my post gave anyone the impression that I'm process free or processed unfriendly, think again folks, I'm more processed 'minimal' LOL! My intent, like Sof's, was to educate so that peeps can make informed choices, that's all.

So all this blathering I've done comes down to this.....(for Sof & everyone)....post your opinions, thoughts, feelings, and even pictures of grandkids if you see fit, it's ALL good. If we disagree, refer to my highlighted paragraph above, we can do disagreement like we do Paleo, in a healthy way! This thread has to be a safe place to express,otherwise it just aint gonna work!

Egads007 · June 2018

Soooooo, anyone else enjoying the hell out of the fact that it's the weekend as much as I am? Who's going to Vegas? Who's taking it there? I can hear the chip bags crinkling and red wine bottles clinking all over da' place. Try your best to keep it to one day or one meal, I'm rootin' for your resolve! I have to say though, I can't wait for Indiscretion Monday, always a confessional o' fun! If you do 'sin' please don't make it McDonalds.....I wasn't able to call off those FBI raids I spoke of earlier this week ))))))

Egads007 · June 2018

Trish - So many posts, I almost missed yours....WAY TO GO ON THE WEIGHT LOSS!! Who'd a thunk fat would work wonders.....we did! So happy for you!!! Keep it rolling!

SpecialK · June 2018

I actually eat very few processed foods, and also tend to eat whole food combined into recipes. I was diagnosed with severe reflux and hiatal hernia and had reconstructive surgery of the gastro-esophageal junction more than 20 years ago. Due to that I had some digestive impact and found that processed foods, and even whole ingredient recipes with too many different ingredients challenged my system. I try to stay as gluten free as possible, especially in light of my genetic celiac variant result, and I just don’t eat bread or baked goods at all, and don’t miss it because the risk for reward is too high. So, no bread equals less mayonnaise! Every now and then I use some mayo for something - usually for someone else -and was curious about your thoughts on that brand. I have no problem making my own, so will probably do that from now on.

HopeandLove · June 2018

Thank you for the warm welcome, Egads007! When I was diagnosed with Celiac was about the time being gluten-free was becoming more popular. Products were on the market, but they were expensive and tasted terrible and/or had a ton of added sugar. I found I preferred to just give up bread and pasta than buy those products. I think now there are better products and prices have come down, but I still try to avoid most of them.

I am very happy to see low-carb diets becoming more popular. On my job, when they cater lunches for us, it used to be pizza or lasagna and I had to bring my own food. It's evolved now that we have salads, proteins, and roasted vegetables – such a nice change!

Solfeo, I remember you from another thread and being impressed by your weight loss. I find you smart and inspirational and I really appreciate all the knowledge you share about the research you have done. Your Coco Ranch dressing has become a staple in our house for the past several months. The rest of my family does not share my keto/paleo enthusiasm, but they all have embraced this salad dressing. I'm so happy they are no longer requesting Kraft dressings.

Remember the fat-free craze in the 90s? My husband and I were fully on board with it and I shudder to think about the damage we did to our health during that time. Meals were usually pasta with a sugary fat-free sauce, or sometimes even just a bowl of white rice with soy sauce. And fat-free brownies for dessert. And fat-free American cheese on toast for breakfast. Ugh!! We thought as long as we were eating fat-free, we were being so healthy!

TwoHobbies: I agree there are good dieticians out there and the one I saw is no longer at my cancer hospital. She interviewed me for a good 15 minutes about my health history, weight, exercise, cancer, etc, so I was really surprised when she handed me a photocopied diet to follow. When I pointed out it had gluten items, she told me to look at the exchanges on the last page and substitute something without gluten. Maybe I was asking too much, but I thought, in this day and age, that they could input my numbers – weight, height, blood work, health issues, and even dietary preferences – and create a customized diet for me.

I'm realizing I'm not as savvy as many of you are about good and bad ingredients. I still have so much work to do!

I did want to know if anyone has any knowledge about anchovies and if they are good for you? I enjoy adding those in my salads, but I haven't seen any research on them (they are not listed in the Foods for ER+ food list https://foodforbreastcancer.com/articles/breast-cancer-diet-for-hormone-receptor-positive-%28er%2b-slash-pr%2b%29-patients-and-survivors.

One of my favorite condiments is Frank's Red Hot sauce. I slice chicken breast into strips and dip them in it. The ingredients are: Aged Cayenne Red Peppers, Distilled Vinegar, Water, Salt and Garlic Powder.

Sorry this is so long-winded and mostly off-topic. I don't cook much, so I don't really have any great recipes to share right now. I tend to make plain food and dress it up with lemon, olive oil, or walnut oil.

SBKH · June 2018

Hey all - would love to join your group! I need motivation. Pre-cancer I was super healthy. Now I'm so busy and so tired and I'm living on the SAD. I know how to eat paleo well and what to do - mostly here for the encouragement.

TwoHobbies · June 2018

Yay, Trish, finally a breakthrough!

It's easy for me to do unprocessed at home - when I cook. I eat a lot of simple, repetitive foods. But I'l l never claim to be perfect. I work and I'm tired and we eat out frequently. I choose salad and their salad dressing probably has soybean oil in it. I know they don't saute in grass-fed butter like at home. I just try to choose the best foods available and that's about the level I can stress about it!

As far as the weekend - its raining today - darn. That kind of puts a damper on my exercise and gardening plans, but it is at least supposed to stop raining after 12:30, so I go out this afternoon even though its cloudy and damp. We had such a cold April, and then we had rainy weekend, a second rainy weekend, hotter than hell weekend, last weekend was nice, and now rain again.

Welcome, SBKH. Come on in!

Hopeandlove - yes the fat free craze! I wonder if that might have contributed to my BC. My father died of a heart attack in the 70s and we were told low-fat, more grains, more pasta... I think they mis-led us.

solfeo · June 2018

Well said, Egads. I didn't get any kind of negative vibe from what you wrote about processed foods, and I was just double checking that I have your blessing. Thank you for clarifying.

I call my approach to losing and maintaining weight, "How to be perfectly imperfect," because if I think I have to do everything perfectly all of the time to succeed, I have set myself up for failure before I even began. I do deviate, but rarely in a way that can affect health or weight loss.

It's a sort of a harm reduction model. I have lost a pound every Thanksgiving for the last three years. I eat things I wouldn't eat on a regular day, and enjoy just as much comfort food as the average person, but I do it in a way that keeps me on target. I've adapted all of the traditional recipes into versions I can enjoy, and family barely notices the differences. Who would guess you can eat pumpkin swirl cheesecake and lose weight?!

Meg101 · June 2018

Hi Ladies! I am so grateful for all the information about food additives, labels, and warnings. The other day I was at the market for 2 hours trying to read labels. Does the food industry deliberately make the print on labels too small to read? I could barely see the print even with reading glasses. From now on I'm going to haul a magnifying glass with me so I can read the fine print.

Yesterday I was looking at the homemade mayo recipe that Egads posted. It looks easy and delicious. The site led to a YouTube video showing how to exercise with one of those big blowup balls. Lo and behold, I found the balls at the local Dollar Store along with some exercise straps. Last night I did some "pull ups" with the straps while sitting at the computer. Today I 'feel the burn' in my upper body muscles which is a good thing. Today I will tackle the big ball to improve my core.

Speaking of sitting in front of the computer, has anyone else noticed increased back and neck discomfort? After 8 months of treatment and spending so much time on the computer, I'm not liking my posture. I found a halter-type of contraption on Amazon for $12.00. I've started wearing it and it really works. It holds the shoulders back and makes me sit up straight even after I take it off. I highly recommend it. I bought one for my daughters to wear while sitting at the computer, and it's improving their posture too. I love things that are cheap yet good for us.

Meg

solfeo · June 2018

Now your name sounds familiar HopeandLove, thanks for refreshing my memory, and welcome aboard! I didn't realize you were new here because I am too.

Let me tell you about my experience on low fat high carb diets. I have always struggled with my weight since I was a teenager. Overweight, not obese, with a lot of yoyo'ing up and down. When I was in my twenties I went on one of those powdered liquid diets because I was up 40 lbs. In the weekly support group, the doctors who ran the program used to tell us it was all about the fat grams. They would give you the magic formula for how many fat grams you could eat and maintain your weight loss, and as long as you stuck to that you could eat anything you want.

I remember one particularly extreme example when one of the docs held up a loaf of bread and said you could eat the whole thing as long as you didn't exceed your fat grams. I don't think they expected anyone to really do it, but that was all I needed to hear, and that is pretty much when I started down the path to morbid obesity. Still fighting it and yo'yoing but never getting below 200 lbs. again.

I was a slave to my food cravings, and I didn't know the food I was eating was actually creating those cravings. I thought it was a personal weakness in me, and if I could only just follow the low fat high carb diet everyone was saying was so healthy, that all would be well. You can see how that turned out in my "before" photo LOL! And that was after I had already lost 30 lbs!

Paleo Pals - Health, Weight Loss & Support

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