Paleo Pals - Health, Weight Loss & Support
Comments
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Map: Did your docs investigate the chest issue with ECG or Echo or just listen to your description and give opinion? Has it gotten better over time? Does it only show up when exercising? I haven't experienced that, did get shortness of breath at the very beginning of cardio training, never heaviness. I honestly think you should go back and push the matter and get the appropriate testing. I'm sure you're fine, but why leave it to chance?
The push ups sound like what happens to me, whew, I'm not alone. YAY YOU INDEED!!! Love the 3 fer' 3! Good luck on leg day, hope you rock those squats!! Atta girl! Just take it easy please, and stop if your chest feels wonky, or you're breathless. Do you have a fitbit? If so, closely monitor the heart tonight. Keep us posted please!!
Anyone else here experience chest heaviness that Map describes?? See her post above.
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The addiction starts early, otherwise known as "how to raise creepy kids.":
Once they are hooked, keep them happy, because kids always like what is best for them and moms are busy. Complete with puzzle for distraction!
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Junie — thinking of you with the bone scan and hopeful for good results. Sorry you are not feeling well. Hope this changes soon.
Egads007 and Solfeo- these pics are hilarious. I can't believe how these non-nutritous/bad foods were so popular growing up. On the few occasions when we had a babysitter the treat was a t.v dinner and jiffy pop popcorn. Loved the little desserts that came with it too. I I do think I can live without the potato fudge.
Two Hobbies— yes I do love Cape Cod potato chips as well as the Cape itself!!
Solfeo—you look so good. And yes— you Are an inspiration to me. Not easy to completely re-do one's diet, but both the health and physical results show it is so worth it.
I have had two good eating days in a row. Wishing I could move around better and get back to my working out, but need to wait until my knee has healed. In the meantime you all are inspiring me
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Hey paleo pals! Didn't mean to disappear from the thread, just had a minor, non BC related procedure done, so I've been laying low for a couple of days. Seems everyone has forgotten me already! Even after the double dog dare from Egads the other day. 😁
I'm still plugging along with my low carb, not losing any weight, but determined to stick with it for now.
I think I need to clear something up. I know a lot of people here have said that they've tried everything, and have never been able to ose weight. My problem is exactly the opposite. I've always been able to lose weight when I really want to. Sometimes it's hard as hell, but I could still do it, even post menopause. I know my body really well. If I reduce my caloric intake, either by going low carb, or low fat, and exercise religiously, I will lose weight. But not any more. I don't know if it's from the last chemo I did (5 months of Xeloda) or something else, but my body is not behaving the way it normally does.
I'm doing extremely low carb right now, in hopes of f kick starting my fat burning metabolism. I'm pretty good at it, since I lived a low carb lifestyle for five years. It just doesn't seem to be working. I'm in ketosis pretty much 24/7 and not losing an ounce.
Exercise doesn't seem to be doing it either. From October to January I walked five miles a day, six days a week, and watched what I ate. Didn't lose an ounce.
Once I finished the Xeloda in January, I started back at the gym. As I've said, I work out 1 1/2 hours a day, six days a week, stick to a low carb diet (no grains, no sugar, not even fruit right now)and still nothing. I'm not losing weight, or building muscle. My clothes fit worse than they did before and I look terrible.
I'm so discouraged right now, because I HAVE to lose this weight. I've chosen to not take an AI due to horrible side effects, so building muscle and getting to a healthy BMI is my best bet for reducing my risk of reoccurrence.
Sorry for the long rant. Just not sure what else to do. Except wait to see the new endocrinologist.
Trish
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Trish - would you be willing to PM me your daily food intake? Brekkie/lunch/dinner for the next few days? I'd love to do a breakdown on it...maybe I might be able to see where the cracks are. Write a meal journal if you're willing and send it on over. The meds & menopause def have an impact. Estrogen aids in releasing fat from cells (along with aiding metabolism) As those levels decline so does our body's fat burning ability, hence the term 'middle age spread'. Cancer treatment doesn't help either. Anyhoodle...big hugs, we'll get you there! Send the food diary over to my PM if you want, would love to help!
More later all...I’ve got a hungry caveman to feed
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Hellooooooooo.
Map I ditto what Egads said on the cardiac evaluation. You may need a PCP referral. The doc evaluation should be done by the cardiologist. Besides EKG and Echo, I see a stress test in your future
. Strongly suggest that you back off strenuous activity until you are cleared by cardiologist. The differential testing for evaluation for chest pain can include several other studies. But description of something sitting on your chest is classically heart. Solfeo, Whoohoo you look good girl.
Junie hope you feel better.
Coach, practicing, not necessarily a full session
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Hi Trish, I do know of some areas that you could look into and experiment with to get past this plateau. I was fortunate in that I only had one plateau of about a month throughout the entire process of losing the weight. I was doing everything right. What would be considered "by the book" from a low carb diet perspective, but I did have to make individual modifications to my program to get back to losing weight after that point. I'm not going to be able to cover it all in one post, but here's a start:
Thyroid function is definitely a top consideration and I think it's a good idea to get that checked out. The thyroid situation often deteriorates after menopause, even if we never had this problem before. The issue with conventional endocrinologists is that they rely heavily on standard of care in their treatment decisions, and the synthetic thyroid meds they prescribe are often not enough. There are tests that should be run beyond just the standard TSH level that most doctors refer to when diagnosing and treating hypothyroidism, and natural desiccated thyroid meds (also require a prescription) are often more effective than the synthetics typically prescribed.
It's almost never going to be an endocrinologist who is going to tell you any of this, although I think that might be changing in a positive direction. Your best bet is to find a functional medicine practitioner, integrative medicine doctor, or naturopath. I could go into more lengthy deep explanations of why this is true, but it would take up way too much time and space here, so I urge you to do your own research to learn more, and what can be done to help. There is a website that I found especially helpful, called Stop the Thyroid Madness.
I was hypothyroid and used to take natural desiccated thyroid myself, but I had to stop because any thyroid drugs (natural or synthetic) can raise heart rate, and mine was at an unsafe level. I had no choice but to find another way, and remarkably I succeeded at restoring thyroid function with the help of my naturopathic doctor. This might not help everyone, because it really depends on why your thyroid isn't functioning optimally to begin with, but I did get my TSH down from over 5 (clearly hypo) to 2 (normal, but slightly above optimal) by doing three simple things. 1) I reduced my intake of raw goitrogenic vegetables (cooked is OK); 2) I started supplementing trace amounts of iodine (around 500mcg); and 3) I began supplementation with an herb called ashwagandha (it might be good for cancer too). The ashwagandha link goes to a site that summarizes the extensive research that has been done on this herb, and it can actually address more than one roadblock to weight loss.
I hope this helps. I do have other suggestions to overcome a plateau that worked for me, but I don't have time right now to explain. I'll try to get back to it later.
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Map, back to clarify. I'm a nurse, I used to educate Paramedics. I have better than the standard understanding of a cardiac nurse. The lecture I did on differential dx of chest pain was 3 hours. Other lectures were:Normal cardiac anatomy,-3 Ekg 9-12, Autonomic nervous system-3, cardiac drugs-3. Tutoring on EKG-- approx 45 hrs. ACLS- Cardiac protocol somewhere around 18 besides the tutoring which also tended to be around another 45 hours.
I came back to make this statement. We all carry a risk with living. You have used a phrase that should make any cardiac trained person's eyebrows raise. The key to your presentation is: You experience the chest pain after a usual strenuous workout. That the pain improves with rest. The associated complaint was shortness of breath. That is at a completely, completely difference in concern level than a person that has chest pain at rest with changes of frequency, duration, and intensity with sob and with or without other associated complaints.
Hence, the request to back off until evaluated by a cardiologist. If you have an underlying cardiac problem, at present it would be described as stable, which is brought about by defined level of exertion. Questions?
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1000% agree Sas, I've PM'd Map hoping to flag her before the gym...I also told her to check back here to read the posts. I don't like her description onebit!
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Egads, I may ask Mags to post a chart I dictated to her. If she can post it without difficulty, that would save time. If not I will recreate. Again MAP's presentation is s/s's based on a particular level of exertion. The key for her is to back off.
Our phones, but not internet is messed up. I will do the chart.
Think the mnemonic ODIFERR. This may look simplistic. But it actually took a couple of years to make the chart. I always tried to reduce information to a simple form. Easier to digest and remember long term.
In regard to developing a way to evaluate chest pain:the question is: How can we describe the difference between stable and unstable chest pain?
Tada-----the characteristics are duration, intensity, frequency, exertion/exercise, rest and relief. Put in the sequence below it makes it easy to remember.
........................Stable angina..................................................Unstable angina
Onset..................predictable.......................................................unpredictable
Duration..............predictable........................................................unpredictable
Intensity...............predictable........................................................unpredictable
Frequency.............predictable.......................................................unpredictable
Exertion................predictable........................................................unpredictable
Rest......................predictable........................................................not relieved by rest or takes longer
Relief drug (nitro)..predictable........................................................Not relieved by use of nitro x3, > pain over
.......................................................................................................20minutes
New onset chest pain should always have a cardiologist work up. PCP's are trained in the evaluation of chest pain, but (holding my tongue and being polite) think cardiologist for definitive evaluation.
The picture painted by unstable angina is also known as pre-infarct angina. With unstable angina a change from usual angina that has multiple changes from usual angina shouldn't be ignored. Also, activating EMS versus driving yourself or family member to the hospital is the safe choice.
The usual first step with new onset chest pain or unstable chest pain is to take a 325 mg Aspirin. Please, discuss this with your docs.
As in any situation, that causes fear b/c you haven't a clue and you feel things are out of control, or sense of impending doom-EMS 911
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Great Sas...I told her in my PM to curtail the gym until she gets answers...hope she sees your post or the PM soon. The whole thing makes me worry for her!
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Whoohoo, lost power. after last submit. Cool at least I didn't loose everything.
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loving the pics everyone. I need to up my exercise game and have treated myself an Apple Watch for reaching one of my weight loss goals. Hoping the expensive gimmick will keep me motivated. At the moment I’m walking most days 5 plus kms and going to yoga twice a week. I know I need to add some resistance work to this but knowing and doing are two different things.
It’s friday lunchtime here and I’ve stayed lclf all week. But it’s my usual wine and chips Friday night coming up. My plan is to practice moderation this evening and see how we go. Loving this thread. Wish I had more to contribute but I’m still pretty new to all thi
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Hi Everyone!
Sorry I haven't posted for a few days. I've been in lurk mode. I've been reading all of your posts with great interest, but kept being interrupted before I could reply. I've also been reading the links posted on this thread.
I'm worried about Map and Junie. It's great that we have Sas here with her medical background, and Egads with her "coaching" skills and her personal experience with the Paleo way of living. Between Sas and Egads, we're in good hands.
Trish - I can relate to the plateau situation. When it happened to me it took a while to discover what was causing it. I discovered I was over-doing artificial sweeteners in addition to not adding enough fat in meals. Once I increased the fat and decreased the sweeteners, my weight loss went back to a normal pace. Maybe you could tweak those two things to see if it makes a difference. Also, check your water intake. As I recall, we need extra water when experiencing ketosis. Have you checked your potassium levels? My potassium was low when I hit a plateau. It was easily corrected with OTC supplements. And of course there is the thyroid issue in your case. It will be interesting to discover what is causing your plateau.
Shazza - Way to go! You are really doing well. Enjoy your evil chips and wine tomorrow! I'm starting to get cravings just thinking about it.
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Whew, I’m pooped, long day!...I’ll be responding to all the stuff everyone has posted tomorrow. Great to see the cave chicks all popping back in tonight *waves*. I had FBI raids planned for your local McDonald’s if we weren’t all accounted for LOL!! Joking of course, every one of us is doing spectacular things! A big thank you to SAS for the chart..that’s going up on the main thread entry tomorrow and should be included on most,if not all exercise posts...keep us all safe n’ such!
Until tomorrow Cave Hotties...(((Hugs)))
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I will wait until we hear from Maps. I revised the chest pain thingy for format and and some other details at the end. I'm thinking I could write a few more things. Particularly, as they relate to this group. Maybe will just do it after the next couple of Paleo wines
YOOHOOOOOOOOOOOooooo Maps???????
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HEY!!! You best be sharing that paleo wine!!! LOL
Me too Sas, I’m beat, but was lurking around the boards,hoping Maps would be back on. Worried.
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Egads. your choice to put info where and how you like
, but consider a Phrase possibly like " Chest pain with workouts" and then link this page. Look at Constipation Thread or Warm and Fuzzies. for linking ideaas -
Gotcha Sas..as usual your know how is spot on
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Egads, get your worry, on Maps. We can't change what is, we are hoping she went out and cheated and is putting off till tomorrow to confess. We will be so joyous at the cheating confession. Take some Easy tea,
Some thoughts that would be considered with this group related to above the waste pain. Unless and emergency presents itself, the differential for chest pain includes consideration for the following.
Musculoskeletal:
Muscles can be an issue as can be ribs, and cartilage. Generally, they will present as a soreness, with muscles they can be tearing. The particular one that is ruled out with chest pain is inflammation or separation of the cartilage that attaches to the sternum. The conditions name is Costochondritis. It came be very uncomfortable. One particular key can be, it is reproduced( made worse) with movement. Either intentional movement of arms that causes a stretch that pulls on the pectoral or posterior lats. There is cartilage to the posterior connection too. Cartilage allows for the movement. It's almost non-rigid. It cushions the movement. It allows for a greater movement than if it weren't present. But it can be injured. Pain generally can be localized by pointing with one finger to each pain area. Pain can generally be reproduced by placing pressure on the site. It may be made worse with inspiration an exhalation.
Key heart pain is NOT made better or worse with inspiration or expiration.
Pulmonary:
New onset sudden chest pain with shortness of breath that is painful with inspiration and expiration can be a pulmonary embolism(PE). Patient presents with great fear. Problem with PE is it presents in so many ways. It all depends on the clot size.
Key heart pain is NOT made better or worse with inspiration or expiration.
Neck:
The nerves coming off the cervical and upper thoracic spine can affect chest wall muscles anterior and posterior. It has to do with what level. With the exercises described here it would be a consideration in the evaluation of chest pain. But generally are more in the identifiable range of musculoskeletal (see above) than heart, but needs to be considered in the evaluation of a new onset of chest pain.
Key heart pain is not made better or worse with inspiration or expiration
TMJ and Jaw pain :
Both can have origins in heart pain, but is that always an absolute clue NO. But it can be a clue. Clinical correlation must be done
They're isn't a gal here that hasn't read those words " Clinical Correlation". They aren't garbage words. It means "put this finding together with what the patient tells you, what the labs and imaging studies tell you, then if there is an absence of a clear diagnosis. You make a reasoned judgement. A reasoned judgement is way different than a guess.
Radiation of chest pain:
Heart pain can radiate to the jaw and TMJ, and both arms. Most folks associate the left, but it can go to right arm too.
Abdominal pain, Gallbladder pain, esophageal pain does NOT radiate to the arms. Abdomibal and GB pain willradiate to the shoulders. Esophageal pain will radiate to the throat.
Chest pain from the lungs does NOT radiate to the arms.
Neck and upper thoracic pain that impacts nerves affecting the chest wall and the arms can present with chest pain and radiating arm pain. It is only associated with shortness of breath because of intensity of pain. This actually, can be a toughy in the acute situation. But generally there is trauma involved. Support for the cardiovascular system is part and parcel of a trauma situation.
The reason to add this here is: You all are working out with weights, body pull ups, push ups. This is a stress on the musculoskeletal system.
Key is to listen to your body. Once the body signals a stress pain. Stop. It's the bodies signal. It's an early warning device. The Jane Fonda thing of "feel the burn" may put you out of commission.
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OMD. I'm old, Ya'll probably never heard of the Jane Fonda thingy of "Feel the burn"
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Mornin' cave peeps! I wonder if our ancient ancestors had a version of coffee? Percolated ground mammoth bones? *big sip of coffee*, Yup it's the only bean I love now.
Map - If you're reading this now, stop, hit reply, type "I'm ok". When you read what was posted yesterday you'll understand our concern. I'm sure you're fine, but your fellow cave chicks need confirmation
You've got a PM from me as well..nag, nag, nag. Sof - OH EM GEE!!.....the pic of that kid made me snort water out my nose....made the mistake of reading it while taking a big swig from a water bottle. I actually yelled out to my family "Quick you HAVE to see this one!!" Cracked us all up! I get that same look on my face at every meal, or whenever I see Clive Owen or Gerald Butler on screen.
Excellent thyroid post!CapeCod - High 5s on the good eating days, hoping your knee heals up quickly! Jiffy Pop LOL....convenient AND unhealthy lol, but did I ever love watching it rise as a kid!
Trish - Forget you? No way! Didn't you see my post re: FBI raid on your local McDonalds? LOL yours was on the list two! Check out my reply to you asking if you wanted to send me a food diary.....can't hurt, but up to you. As for your 'long rant', rant away, that's what we're here for! Hugs!
Junie - In case you missed my response, I was hoping all went well at your scan and wished you sweet dreams....sure sounds like you deserved the rest! Let us know how it went please!
Shazzz - Awesome on the 5k walk and yoga, all great stuff! As for the strength training, I posted two moves you could incorporate at home (squats & lunges) as a starting point 2-3 times per week....won't take more than 15 minutes for 3 sets. I really hope everyone makes that part of their week....so important. Where you at in the world? I see you're approx. 8 hours behind us....UK? Chips and wine....Vegas Baby!!
Meg - Agree, we are in very good hands with Sas....as for me, well, my friends and family might disagree there LOL, thank you for the kind words. Glad to see you're still hanging in with the crew!!
Sas - All great info, I'm going to have to add it all up to post. When you get the chart formatted let me know. Amazing work Bon Ami!
Did I miss anyone? If so feel free to kick my butt....you can count it in as part of your weekly exercise total!
Hang in for post of the day y'all.....working on it now!
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Egads
4 for 4!! Yay me! Great leg workout, (love my trainer!). Lots of squats. Very little cardio. Chest was fine! Thanks for your concern. It has greatly improved over time. And yes I have had ekg and echos done several times. My medical team is very thorough. My chemo nurse who I kee in touch with also reminds me that chemo does damage and not to push to hard
Camping this weekend with my hubbys Cub Scout pack.so no kickboxing tonight. I get to hang out in the woods. Read a book and hang out since my son, (Eagle Scout) is college age and helps out the leaders. Mrs. Cubmaster Bob just gets to enjoy her coffee around a campfire!
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I’m old too! Did the Jane Find workout to a vinyl album and vhs tape! And yes wearing leg warmers!! Lo
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FOODIE FRIDAY…..AKA FOOD YAY!!
One of the Paleo eating 'rules' that is often left by the wayside is cutting processed foods out of the diet. Processed foods, while hellishly convenient, are most often PACKED with sugar, salt, unhealthy oils, not to mention chemicals we can't pronounce…..eg: butylated hydroxytoluene. A good rule of thumb is this: If I can't pronounce it, don't eat it! Btw, the unpronounceable word above is an additive to stop oils from going rancid…oh yeah, I just love me some product that can be left on the counter for 9 years! NOT! Oh, it also has shown to cause cancer in mice. Check your pantry out carefully. Personally, my cupboards have a ton of free space because of cutting out most processed food. I'm not going to court more cancer for a convenient way to cook.
Here's the thing…..not all of us have time to cook from scratch, we work, we have responsibilities, we have lives and no one wants to be chained to their oven for 4 hours a day. In honor of Foodie Friday I'd thought I'd contribute a very basic method/recipe for a time honored classic…MAYO. Yummmmmmmm. Read the label on jarred mayo….you'll find most (even the one labelled 'olive oil') generally is made with a drop of olive oil and the balance out of soybean oil (soybean = NO!).The organic brands aren't far behind and really expensive! The problem is that homemade mayo, while delicious, is a pain to make. Standing over a food processor, adding the oil a drop at a time (or worse, hand whipping….can't feel my arm anymore) is torture! So, check this out (oh please do! It's an amazing TWO MINUTE mayo…..TWO MINUTES!) No waiting for the egg to come to room temp, no separating the eggs (WOOT). TWO MINUTES! Can ya' tell I love this? Here's the link, watch the video!!
https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/two-minute-mayonnaise.html
TIPS:
- the container you use MUST just fit the head of the emulsifier stick (MUST!!)
- Do NOT use olive oil, even EVOO, unless you want a burned bitter taste. Use a light tasting oil, I use avocado oil. (the speed of the blending is the culprit, I've used EVOO and it was awful!)
- It's good in the fridge for at least 7 days. I use the expiry date of my eggs to gauge, but generally no more than 14 days (haven't died yet!) Oh….and it usually only stays in my fridge for 3 days….we're mayo freaks!
- You can change the flavour by adding whatever you prefer…use bacon drippings as the fat for a fabulous change, garlic, Sriracha, whatever pleases your palate...just try it!
Let's see what else we can come up with……….what is your fav recipe/tip/method for cutting processed food out of our kitchen? Whatever it is, I'll take it with a dollop of mayo please!!
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Map:
So glad you've got the ticker being monitored! When I read "someone sitting on my chest", it really concerned me. The camping sounds awesome, enjoy that campfire the relax time...after all you made 4 for 4!!! Look at you go!!
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Hey All, just caught up with ALL The LOVE from you! Rest assured I'm fine! Wasn't rushed to the ER or anything.. Just had a busy work day, followed by the gym, (no, I didn't see all your posts until after!) and then helping hubby pack for camping this weekend.
Let me clarify my chest issues. During chemo, (especially infusion day), I would experience heaviness of my chest. My chemo nurse was all over me. She sat with me watching my every move, blush, breath. I had baseline echos/ekgs done just prior to treatment, and all was normal. I had more done as treatment progressed, and still all normal. It happened on and off during treatment and for a few months after. The occurances were less and less the further I got from treatment. I hadn't felt it in a few months, (I didn't even realize it) until I think I just pushed too hard.. (way too many attempted burpees). I don't have any pain radiating down my arm or other classic ladies heart symptoms. .
Post treatment, I had new echos/ekgs to see if there had been any damage and I was assured all looked well. I do have a dr appt in the next week or two and will mention it, again.
You ladies are wonderful, sweet, caring! In less than a week, I have found new friends and support different than all the pink ribbons, (is anyone else annoyed by them??) Its a breath of fresh air!!
Don't be worried if you don't see me posting much this weekend. Working from home today, but as I've mentioned earlier, camping this weekend. Wifi is sketchy and besides.. outdoors, woods, nature, no real need for screens, besides the kind to keep out bugs!!
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Map said: "the pink ribbons, (is anyone else annoyed by them??)"
Egads says:
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ok, one last post than I HAVE to work!!
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the research and support etc that lead to my successful treatment. But I'm not a big fan of all the pink ribbons, (even though I am a girliest of girly girls). Yes, I had BC, yes, I went through treatment, but I just get annoyed or maybe even embarrassed by it all...
And I am aware of the financial statistics.. sad, isn't it??
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