Bottle 'o Tamoxifen

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  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 4,800
    edited May 2018

    Is anyone here only weakly ER+ and nevertheless taking tamoxifen?

    My core biopsy came back 10% ER+ Allred 4/8 but Oncotype puts me as triple neg. We're trying to make the decision regarding tamoxifen.
    My MO is currently leaning against, thinking it will do more harm than good.


  • Egads007
    Egads007 Member Posts: 1,603
    edited May 2018

    Moth - *hand up* I was 15%, MO referred to it as just squeeking by into ER+. Actually she said that 15% was the lowest before being declared TN. She seemed pleased and stated that it was good news as I could take Tamoxifen (not so sure of that lol). Seriously thought I’ve often wondered if it’s doing more harm than good too. I’d be interested to see what you decide, or find out about the whole quandry. Sorry I have no further input.

  • Djohn
    Djohn Member Posts: 14
    edited May 2018

    Hi Ladies,


    Has anyone suffered from chronic tension type headaches and neck pain while on Tamo? I’m 5 months in and feel worse now than I did twhen I started the medication. Have been working with various docs to find something to ward off the side effect but would like to know if anyone else is having a similar issue and if it eventually went away. Thanks


    DJohns.

  • rgoossen
    rgoossen Member Posts: 34
    edited May 2018

    Oh great...I have noticed my first SE's 6 days since starting tamoxifen. Last night around 7 pm I developed ringing in my left ear and it is still ringing today. I also noticed my legs seemed restless last night while I was trying to sleep. Praying for these to subside sooner than latter.

  • Artista964
    Artista964 Member Posts: 530
    edited May 2018

    yeah you just don't know if ses will subsid later on. Im coming up on 2 years of T in a month minus trying letrozole for 5 last year. Started with my uterine fibroids cramping, warm daily flushes, fatigue and some joint pain. Now fatigue is same, i have days of 0 warm flushes and I'm menopausal, cramping gone and only knuckles on right hand can have pain on flexion. So for me it's gotten better. But im a high risk and cant do the ai so im on the min 10 year plan. I was diagnosed in 2015 4 mo before turning 51.

    Ses or new ones can crop up at anytime but im determined to cope.

  • Cpeachymom
    Cpeachymom Member Posts: 518
    edited May 2018

    djohns- You had rads, right? Have you tried PT? I know the tightness in my shoulder was starting to affect my neck and cause headaches. They went away soon after I started PT. I hope you find relief!

  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 4,800
    edited May 2018

    Egads - hi! Ugh, I'm not liking having to make this decision. My MO is still mulling and conferring with colleagues - including the pathology team - & I'm hoping they'll actually give a recommendation at some point rather than just sort of shrugging and saying hmmmmmmm....

  • Egads007
    Egads007 Member Posts: 1,603
    edited May 2018

    Moth - Hiya! Ugggg is right, it’s one helluva decision, freedom from tamox and possible negatives with small risk factor vs reoccurrence and kicking my butt for not sucking it up and taking the med. I’m facing this in December when they want to switch me up to an AL. I’m planning on an in-depth with my MO beforehand. If the numbers/benefits are in my favour I’ll go for it, if not I’m not sure that I won’t chicken out and do 5 more years of ‘hard time’ anyway.So much easier in the beginning when I was startlingly and blissfully ignorant....took my pills like a good girl without question. Information is power, and also a biotch when it comes down to the crunch, arrrrrg! Keep me posted on your situation please!

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited May 2018

    djohn- have you tried acupuncture? It helped me a lot with the chronic tension in my upper back, shoulders and neck as well as the resulting headaches.

  • Robin1234
    Robin1234 Member Posts: 45
    edited May 2018

    I've been on tamoxifen since November and for tge passed few weeks ive started having night sweats and now im having hot flash and seem to be getting worse. Is it normal to have night sweats and hot flashes like 6 months into taking tamoxifen? Thank you so much Ladies😇💕

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited May 2018

    Robin- yep, it sure is. The thing about tamoxifen is it has a really long half life (about 6 days). While it’s only 20mg tablet, it builds up in your bloodstream everyday. So let’s say we just look at the first week of tamoxifen therapy, the amount in your system each day:

    Day 1 = 20mg

    Day 2 = 36.5mg

    Day 3 = 52mg

    Day 4 = 66mg

    Day 5 = 79mg

    Day 6 = 90.5mg

    So everyday it goes higher. That means you likely won’t have side effects right away but they can and often do develop over time. Additionally, your body/hypothalamus may no longer be able to compensate for the lack of estrogen (meaning it was compensating before). Hot flashes happen when the hypothalamus incorrectly senses a change in your body temperature regulation and “thinks” you’re too hot. The hypothalamus begins a cascade of various chemicals and hormones to dilate the blood vessels close to the skin surface to help dissipate the (non-existent) extra heat. Since we really weren’t hot to begin with, we feel that heat dissipation from the time it starts til it stops, where if we were actually hot we wouldn’t likely notice it at all. Hope this helps!

  • Robin1234
    Robin1234 Member Posts: 45
    edited May 2018

    Thank you so much Lula73 yes that helps alot put my mind at rest.

  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 769
    edited May 2018

    Loving G- I have been off for a month and feel incredible. I still have the neuropathy, but it is so much better.

    Since I am post-menopausal, I am starting Arimidex today. If pain in legs is severe or other side effects are intolerable, I am done with pharmaceuticals.


    Heading over to another thread now...BLESSINGS TO YOU ALL.



  • vampeyes
    vampeyes Member Posts: 1,227
    edited May 2018

    Day 3 on different Tamoxifen brand. Breathing is becoming difficult again, bloated and muscle fatigue. Couldn't even lift the garbage bag into the bin! I won't give up just yet, but its not looking promising for me.

  • Artista964
    Artista964 Member Posts: 530
    edited May 2018

    garden, if arimidex isnt tolerable, try aromasin before you quit. Its uses different ways than the other 2 and many while find arimidex and femara intolerable, they do aromasin.

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited May 2018

    vampeyes- you have been round & round with this. The difficulty breathing again is not good. I would call your GP. Or see if you can get in with a pulmonologist. Sending hugs your way (((Hugs)))

  • vampeyes
    vampeyes Member Posts: 1,227
    edited May 2018

    Thanks Lula. 💞

    Met with my old Naturalpath today, couldn't afford it years ago so I stopped going. He told me that if his mother needed Tamoxifen he would tell her to take it and throw everything he could at it to help with the side effects. He talked about a herb formula he made that rids the body of extra estrogen and siberian rhubarb to help manage ther SEs. That was just for staters. He also mentioned mistletoe to boost quality of life and decrees SEs of medication and radiation. As well as MCP (modified citrus pectin) to boost immune system and immune sensory against rogue cancer cancer cells spreading.

    All that sounds great except the cost. For two weeks I have to take my temperature (He's checking my thyroid), list all I eat (tomorrow was a good day to starr that diet), increase magnesium and start drinking ox tail bone broth.

    As for arthritis and bone mets he says they can't tell the difference on a scan especially if it's small. Hopefully I have my hospital records by my next visit with him.

    Have a wonderful long weekend my American friends! 🎆🎇✨

  • Djohn
    Djohn Member Posts: 14
    edited May 2018

    CPeachymom and Lula,

    Hi Ladies - Thanks for the input. I started PT a few weeks ago for ROM issues. Turns out rads did a number on my tissues so 4 months out my surgery side started getting really tight again. In any case I had my therapist do some work on my neck but it caused a flare up. I have also been doing acupuncture for several months for headaches but the neck pain and stiffness began a few weeks ago so is relative new so maybe I need to have more frequent and targeted sessions. Also realized that the neck issues seem to have coincided with me starting nortriptyline. I contacted my doctor but she said that the medication would not cause this so I am left scratching my head. Planning to discontinue for a bit to see if any relief. Also requesting imaging to make sure nothing is missed.

    Will keep posted on progress, and hoping there will be progress.

  • graceeallen
    graceeallen Member Posts: 5
    edited May 2018

    I am 21 years old and this year was diagnosed with ADH after a needle biopsy and eventually excisional biopsy of 3 lumps. My oncologist recomended Tamoxifen to me but I am worried to take it because of my young age. Should I be worried? Or is it something I could definitely take over getting a Bilateral mastectomy? I have a family history and am currently waiting for genetic test results.

    • ecbacm
      ecbacm Member Posts: 1
      edited May 2018

      Well it said weight lost or gain. I gained 6 pounds in 3 months. Already went through menopause? Well that old friend will be visiting. I am told that means it is working if you are having your hot flashes and night sweats. Also, only take 1/4 of a melatonin (anymore works against tamoxifen and you will not be able to stay asleep). Beware of soy. These are things that I have found out along the way. Make sure you take it the same time each day. I get tired during the middle of the day at work and I feel more fatigued during the day. Hair seems thinner. It is not all bad. I feel it is doing the job it was meant to do.

    • vampeyes
      vampeyes Member Posts: 1,227
      edited May 2018

      Is it weird I am not having hot flashes? Although the breathing issue, back and chest pain is back.... lovely.

    • ThreeC
      ThreeC Member Posts: 92
      edited May 2018

      Vampeyes- I'm 65, went through Menopause in my late 30's. The first few months on Tamoxifen I was miserable with hot flashes. It was so bad, I was changing my clothes several times a day. Now that is gone- I have developed severe exhaustion & dizziness. These hormone blockers are unpredictable with side effects.

    • Artista964
      Artista964 Member Posts: 530
      edited May 2018

      side effects does not mean it's working. Not everyone has ses.

    • beach2beach
      beach2beach Member Posts: 996
      edited May 2018

      Ive been on Tamox since last Sept. , and was still regularly getting periods. Only recently started with hot flashes and missed last two periods. I'm going on 52 so I don't know whether it is the Tamox of menopause. I agree that just because you don't get hot flashes it doesnt means it's not working. Everyone reacts differently.

    • TaRenee
      TaRenee Member Posts: 464
      edited May 2018

      So does Melatonin work against the Tamoxifen? I take it nightly and it’s a rather high dosage for me. (Sleep has not been my friend since diagnosis and even worse since starting Tamoxifen) ughhhhh

    • runor
      runor Member Posts: 1,798
      edited May 2018

      Beach2beach, I was 53 when I started taking tamox. Having regular periods and no hot flashes, menopause was nowhere in sight. I have not had a period, or drizzle or anything since I started tamox. But I do have regular hot flashes, night sweats, blinding leg cramps in bed, thinning hair, memory loss and the odd moment of homicidal ideation directed at my dear husband. But that last part is because he does annoying things and maybe can't be blamed on tamox. I don't know. But my periods stopped dead in their tracks. My last period was July 2017. Started taking tamox two weeks later start of August and bzzzt, periods gone! If they suddenly come back I'll be so pissed off.

    • Pi-Xi
      Pi-Xi Member Posts: 348
      edited May 2018

      TaRenee, I thought I had read that the therapeutic dose of melatonin with regard to breast cancer was 20 mg. I will have to research again.

      Runor, tamoxifen regulated my periods to be the length I had in my youth. That part has been wonderful. I could do without the PMS which has been pretty brutal.

    • vampeyes
      vampeyes Member Posts: 1,227
      edited June 2018

      TaRenee - my naturalpath has recommended that I take 10mg of melatonin for 3-4 days, then 15mg for 3-4 days, increasing by 5 until a max of 25mg. He sent home a printout called Mechanism of Melatonin in oncology, unfortunately it's difficult to read because it printed badly. I can see the Conclusion and here is what it states:

      Melatonin truly is a great multi-tasker. Its many actions include immune modulation, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, anti-angiogenic, anti-metastatic, anti-proliferative and pro-apoptotic. In addition it has the ability to modify gene expression, reduce side effects of radio chemotherapy and improve response rates to radio chemotherapy. Whereas the molecular mechanisms reviewed in this article are by no means exhaustive, this article is meant to ignite a level of excitement about an impressive supplement for anyone interested in naturopathic oncology.

      I will have to search the internet for this article so I can better read it. Hope it helps in your decision to take it.

    • TaRenee
      TaRenee Member Posts: 464
      edited June 2018

      Thanks Vampeyes. I am taking 20 mg pretty regularly. Maybe I will up it to 25 and take it daily and see if it helps.

      Anyone have suggestions for leg cramps. Not little ones. Massive, make you cry because it’s your toes to your butt, leg cramps? I’m taking magnesium now but tonight I had one for almost 2 hours. I thought I was going to die.

    • runor
      runor Member Posts: 1,798
      edited June 2018

      TaRenee, those cramps are not funny. I've had a few that must inflict some type of permanent damage, because the pain and change in leg function lingers for days. At the first sign of one coming I leap out of bed and try to hobble around. Often I can't even stand up straight because the leg is so seized up I'm bent over in agony. But moving for me has always helped it faster than laying in bed. Still, not fast enough! I feel for you. I think these can't even be called cramps anymore. They are ... muscle murder.

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