Herceptin and Perjeta - joint pain - HR-/Her2+
Is anyone else on Herceptin and Perjeta infusions experiencing pain and stiffness in the joints? I had 13 out of the 18 infusions recommended and the pain is slowly increasing. If you experienced this, did the pain go away after finishing the infusions?
I am wondering if it is from treatment or from the lack if estrogen due to the fact that my period stopped when I began the cancer treatment in fall.
Comments
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hi DATNY,
I’ve had pretty bad knee pain after my H&P infusions for about a day or two afterwards. I’m hoping it doesn’t get worse or last longer but it may as treatment continues and side effects become cumulative. I googled Herceptin and joint pain and found many others with the same concerns. My oncologist is pretty “meh” about it, was more concerned about neuropathy from taxotere
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I had knee stiffness and leg weakness during Herceptin. I was able to jog on the treadmill, but it was difficult to walk up stairs. It improved after I finished Herceptin.
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The pain in my knees since I've started H&P is enough to bring me to tears at times. I'm on a fentanyl patch for other pain and the joint pain breaks right through. I also get intense pain in my right hip and shoulder joints, for some reason my left side isn't bothered as much. The worst of it hits me the week after my infusion. I hate to think of it being cumulative and getting worse.
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Thank you everyone for responding! I too asked my MO who said it's rather from lack of estrogen, which made me feel very discouraged.
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My joints certainly hurt. So badly some nights I am in tears
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ask about Claritin it’s isually inflammation. It helps with my XGeva shots and it made the difference with my Nulasta shots . I took two Aleve that morning. And the week before every morning a Claritin and continued for the next few days. Now it works so well on joint issues and inflammation I just take it daily because I also have allergies. Just a passing thought. Good luck!
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Thank you for your insights. Claritin makes me unwell, but Aleve would work
I was looking to see if this is a side effect from Herceptin and Perjeta, which might improve later. My MO doesn't think has anything to do with the medication, rather with my recent lack of estrogen. So I am looking for opinions of those who had taken the drug.
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DATNY there is a thread in the HER2+ section of the forum that you might want to check with many women reporting severe joint pain from H&P, and two have reported that it did clear up a few months after they finished H&P (yay!). Several say it got so bad after a while that they needed pain meds. I know it's not officially listed as a side effect by Genentech (although it is some on medical/drug websites) so doctors won't acknowledge that it's a SE of the drugs, but there's an awful lot of us having the same problems, especially with knees and back.
FWIW, I was already post-menopausal when DX'd. What I'm experiencing now isn't my typical "growing old" joint pains, and the pain started when I began H&P treatment, so they can try denying it or blaming it on something else all they want. I think there is a lot of evidence pointing to it being a side effect of H&P. I do think that Herceptin somehow messes with our estrogen levels even though it's not a hormonal therapy because I'm also having hot flashes and night sweats that are twice as bad as what I had when I went through menopause (as if it wasn't enough fun the first time!).
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What are your infusion times? My Herceptin was infused over 90 minutes during each chemo, when combined with Taxotere and Carboplatin. I had no problems with pain. Once I was receiving Herceptin only the infusion was accelerated to 30 minutes and I had intense unrelenting hip and leg pain starting with the first H only infusion. I had read that infusion time can cause this so I requested to go back to 90 mins and the problem was solved. Just a thought, and have seen enough anecdotal evidence to think this is a factor for some of us
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I developed all kinds of joint pains after I was on Herceptin alone. My MO didn't really think it was a SE and I had been on Cipro for an infection when it began. I actually skipped one Herceptin infusion to see if it made a difference. Nope!
I still have pain in my knees (stairs are the worst) and my fingers (just when I wake up). Who knows if it's from chemo after effects, lack of estrogen, or getting older.
PS - I did have them slow down the infusion rate after I had two instances of weird reactions towards the end with heart palpations, swallowing issues, and increased BP. That worked.
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Thank you for taking time to answer! I did look for a thread on joint pain but could not find any. Also, I did ask to see if it is possible to slow down the infusion time, however the nurses said they don't do it at my center, they follow the standard of care and so on. I guess I could push it if it will get a lot worst, or if more serious symptoms develop.
I also just realized that only very few women finished H&P for one year, so I guess there isn't much info yet. P is known to be more toxic than H.
My biggest worry is that this is a reaction related to immune systems still fighting cancer cells spread out throughout the body, and somehow attacking the joints as part of the process. Her 2+ cells are known to spread even before a tumor forms -there is a paper in Nature published in 2017 from Mt. Sinai on this topic. The fact that joint pain is not listed as a SE makes me wonder.
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The infusing instructions for Herceptin state that it can be infused from between 30-90 mins, after the observation of a successful reaction-free initial loading dose, so a longer infusion should still be considered standard of care - a number of centers just don't want you in the chair for 90 minutes. In some cases it means they have to bill insurance for an "extended" infusion and it creates more paperwork. I found that going at the end of the day was helpful - that way the folks who were receiving chemo infusions had gone home and the nurses were less taxed with watching too many patients. That said, I was only getting Herceptin since Perjeta had not been approved yet.
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This is thread I was talking about DATNY https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/80/topics...
Mine is 60 minutes. I'm already in the chair for 4-5 hours total, it's a long day. As long as the worst of the pain is only a few days out of each cycle I can deal with it. If it starts getting worse as it accumulates I'll ask about going to 90 minutes.
As to Herceptin attacking cancer cells in the body causing the joint pain, it's been explained to me that mets don't occur from the knees down to the feet and pain I feel there is due to something other than cancer. I have extensive bone mets, so determining the cause of any pain in my skeleton is high priority and often results in a rush for a new scan if my MO thinks there is any possibility that it's due to the cancer progressing. He's not worried about my knee pain being from the cancer. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but chances are very slim.
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I had 17 HP treatments, last one was April 4, 2018. The muscle/joint/bone pain got worse with each treatment, back, hips legs. It was so bad in my hips and back I couldn't sleep. I went to my general doctor for it and doc sent me for a dexa scan which showed osteopenia, which she didn't recommend any meds for right now. Anyway, within a month of finishing the HP, all the pain was gone. It was amazing to walk and sleep without pain.
The oncologist had prescribed opiods for the bone pain. I ended up with a anal fissure because I couldn't manage the side effect of constipation. I was eating/drinking correctly to manage it but it was so severe I needed to take another med, which I didn't know. I didn't really understand the whole opiod/constipation process but I do now! I still have a lot of pain pills left. I generally stick with tylenol now and only take it occasionally. I never want another fissure because that pain was pretty bad too.
I don't have good pain management, in my opinion. I really don't know what the answer is.
I had a recurrence recently and had to start HP again. Treatment number one was last week and so far no pain but I know it's coming.
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I wanted to add I went to a colorectal surgeon for the anal fissure. I referred myself. I didn't even know if that was the right kind of doctor to see for my problem but I figured I needed surgery, that's how bad I thought it was. Doc was so nice and understanding and was angry about how there are probably more cancer patients that need to be seen by rectal specialists because of the side effects of all the drugs we take but the oncologists don't mention it to their patients. And it ends up being a simple fix to the problems.
I didn't need any surgery, just some ointment and she gave me a lot of directions on going to the bathroom, cleaning, etc. which sounds silly but it was so helpful. and on the follow-up visit the fissure was healed. I thought it would be embarrassing but the doctor handles everything so professionally. Very glad I went.
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I’ve been on Herceptin and Perjeta for 4 years. Tried different pain meds that made me itch incessantly. Now on Fentanyl patch and tramadol for breakthrough leg, hip pain. I had an infusion reaction after around 45 txs. We now are trying i/3dose of H weekly over an hour and Perjeta full doseveveryb3ervweekover 90 minutes. Seems to be doing better Except I had to go back on premeds and hare the steroid.
Put in a call to your Doc about slowing the Herceptin. It really helped the low back cramps during tx
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My MO's office suggested Claritin and Alleve the day before infusions and 5-7 days after....cumulative effects of the chemo/biologics meant I needed to go 7 days after starting with infusion 4 through 6.
Am on AI's now and take Alleve and Claritin EVERY SINGLE DAY....have taken breaks but then have inflammation and pain- so go right back to the daily regimen!
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Thank you, ladies, for taking time to answer. It really helps to know is not in my imagination. I am wondering why isn't listed as a side effect it appears to be common enough.
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Hi DATNY,
I did 17 rounds of Herceptin and my knee pain became so severe I had to use a cane for the days following infusion. By the time I reached my 12th infusion of Herceptin they had me at 90 minutes (prior to that it was 30 min, then 60 and finally 90), but it took some major fussing on my part. I used Vicodin for the pain about 2-3 days out of each Herceptin cycle. It most definitely is not in our imagination. I find that MO's love to say it is the lack of estrogen, and I am sure that may be the case, but the cause of the lack of estrogen is due to our cancer treatment. I am 9 months out since my last infusion and the pain has diminished greatly. I no longer have the kind of pain I had then. I have more aches and pains in general but not as severe as during the infusions. I never did have the same knee pain after the last infusion. Cleared up quickly!
Best of luck to you!
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I’m glad I found this! I am on herceptin only and have been struggling with joint pain and stiffness, beginning with my last tch back in March. I was able to deal with it at first, but now it’s getting much worse, especially in my left knee! I just had exchange surgery for reconstruction and was given norco for pain, and of course that helps, but I have 2 young kids and can’t be all spaced out on pain meds, not to mention the constipation that goes along with it. I also am dealing with an anal fissure, that got better, but I think is back now since getting back on pain meds. The GI dr said I am looking at a colonoscopy soon. I began taking advil with claritin yesterday and it seems to help but by the end of the day my knee is killing me. I sent a voicemail to my oncologist, but no call back. I go next Friday to see her and will see what she says. Of course in my mind im going straight to the pain is due to metastasis! But I guess that feeling will never go away
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Thank you couragement! It really helps to know it will get better.
Erob321 good luck to you! Time will tell where is this coming from, hopefully just some rare SE or the lack of estrogen.
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I had my appointment with my mo last week, and she said the pain was due to the lack of estrogen. She said estrogen lubricates things in the body- when the lubrication is gone, joints will hurt. Of course when I had an appointment the pain was gone, but it’s come back some, just not as bad. Hope everyone is doing ok
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Mine too has improved a bit lately. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I started to drink a lot of peppermint tea lately (an old habit which I interrupted for a while to drink green tea only). I looked it up to make sure is not contraindicated, and I found a study showing that consistent drinking of peppermint tea resulted in estrogen increase along with a decrease in testosterone.
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I had a heck of a time with both Herceptin and Perjeta. I have been off of Perjeta for about six months and Herceptin for about two and the joint pain isn’t as bad, and is slowly getting better. I still have some, which my MO attributes to Arimidex, (I am 41, but in a medically induced menopause.)but it is managed with Tylenol and, on occasion, Ultram. (I am allergic to NSAIDs.). My husband massages them at night and heat helps as well.
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