BMX and DIEP or Lumpectomy with reduction?

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Shaleae
Shaleae Member Posts: 15
edited March 2018 in Breast Reconstruction

Hello ladies. New to posting here but have read plenty since my diagnosis of DCIS in December. My biopsy shows at least 4 centimeters of DCIS but the MRI shows a 10 centimeter non-mass enhancement. Could be all DCIS or something else entirely so who knows what my true diagnosis is? I guess no one ever knows until final pathology comes back. My BS surgeon says we can do a lumpectomy and breast reduction because I have DD. She said if we don’t get negative margins they will at least be able to save my nipples if I have the reduction after the lumpectomy. Then we can do a nipple sparing BMX. If I go straight to BMX they can’t save the nipples. The plastic surgeon says there is a high likelihood that we won’t get negative margins and that he has to plan his part of the surgery to put me in the best position for a DIEP reconstruction as that is the route I would go if we don’t get negative margins. My BS and PS are not really on the same page. PS says radiation really impacts the landscape of the breast, can make the nipple do weird things and that he is really never super happy the cosmetic outcome in these situations. BS says I could see 10% size difference after radiation and PS says it can be up to a cup. I told him he and the BS have much different opinions and that it is making difficult for me to decide on what to do. He said they see the world through different lenses. BS is there to remove cancer. He is clean up committee and there to deal with cosmetic outcome. They are both very smart and make great points. I am 46 and don’t want to lose my nipples but I am not so attached to them that I want to endure extra surgeries or even deal with the increased yearly screening and anxiety that goes with that. My surgery is this thursday and I am running out of time to change my mind. Right now scheduled for lumpectomy and reduction.10 centimeters seems like a huge area to get out clean. And could there be other cancer there lurking that MRI didn’t see? But will losing my nipples bother me more than I thought? And hubby says he is fine with no nipples but really? I don’t want to make a decision I regret. Any thoughts or perspectives Would be appreciated! Number one goal is no cancer!! Reduce chances of recurrence but BS insists only slight higher risk with lumpectomy vrs. BMX if we do radiation and tamoxifen. Research I have done supports this claim. Thanks in advance

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  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited February 2018

    Hi Shaleae - We want to send you a big warm welcome to the BCO Community discussion boards. We're sure our helpful members will weigh in shortly with their thoughts and support. Until then, you may want to read this great, extensive information about Breast Reconstruction in our main site. We hope this helps!

    Good luck with everything and keep us updated on how you're doing.

    Best wishes,

    The Mods

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    Hi Shaleae- it is true that the PS and BS approach things from different angles. It sounds like if you go DIEP they are setting you up for delayed DIEP vs immediate DIEP. That's why they are saying they can't keep your nipples.

    Different docs have different views on DIEP when rads are involved. Some say it's better to wait, others say do it before rads so there is far less healing required of compromised skin. However, let's back up a step - It's interesting that they are talking rads after BMX for DCIS. That is not common. Have they said why? BMX with DCIS (and even a lot of stage 1 IDC with no node involvement) takes rads off the table provided there aren't other extenuating circumstances. This means that you should not only be a candidate for immediate DIEP with nipple sparing BMXbut also a candidate for skipping rads.

    I know BC is scary and this period of time you're in after diagnosis is very hard with all the anxiety and emotional upheaval. If it was me, I'd cancel Thursday's surgery, insist on an MRI biopsy of the additional mass if you haven't already had one to see if it can be determined what that other mass is. If the MRI biopsy comes back clean other than the areas you already know about ANDyou're good with rads after, I'd go with lumpectomy and reduction. If it doesn't come back clean OR you aren't ok with rads after, I'd go with DIEP and push for immediate DIEP to save the nipples. If they won't do it, I'd find someone good who does. They don't move the nipples til stage 2 DIEP anyway. (Just my $0.02) Let me know if any questions on DIEP, I'm happy to answer them.

  • Shaleae
    Shaleae Member Posts: 15
    edited February 2018

    Lula73, thank you so much for the reply. We are discussing BMX with immediate DIEP but they said they can’t save the nipples because my breasts are too big. If we do the lumpectomy and reduction on Thursday and don’t get clean margins then in 8 weeks after I have healed they would do DIEP and be able to use my nipples. Something about size of breast and blood flow. If I don’t have the reduction first then I don’t have a chance at sparing the nipple. I wasn’t sure that was such a big deal to me. My BS is a female and is very focused on me having a good cosmetic outcome which includes nipples. My PS is a man and says that in his experience many women don’t mind not having nipples. Not as much as the medical community once thought. Me? I don’t know. I see pics of breasts without nipples and it makes me want to save mine. I go back and forth. The radiation is up in the air because of this 10 centimeters of non mass enhancement shown on MRI. My DCIS is right in the middle of it. If there Is invasive disease also and if the sentinel node biopsy shows something the BS says current recommendations include radiation for certain types of cancer after BMX. The issue is that we don’t know that it is just dcis. BS said she wouldn’t be surprised if they found some invasive disease. How did you do recovering from DIEP? Are you happy with your results? Do you have any feeling in your breasts? Thank you so much. It helps to have contact with someone who has been through this

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    I think I would go for a 2nd opinion on the DIEP nipples thing. I would just see what they have to say, not bringing up the 1st opinion. You have time and my recommendation would be not to rush things if it’s not necessary. Where are you in the country?

    I am very pleased with my results. The thing to remember when recovering is that time is your friend. You make a little more progress everyday. The hardest part was not doing the things i normally would do even if Home sick (ie loading/unloading dishwasher, vacuuming, laundry, etc) as your healing tissues need the rest so they can heal properly. I had nipple sparing BMX w/ immediate DIEP last Feb and stage 2 in Nov. i was a 36C/D going in and ended up a 36DD after stage 1. Reduced beack to 36C/D during stage 2. From an internal feeling perspective, they really don’t feel much different from my originals after stage 2. I do have feeling in the vast majority of my breast skin when it’s touched-just a few spots i can’t feel. To the person touching them they are soft and warm and not really different than touching/holding a firm perky breast like we had back in high school. No feeling in my nipples but they do respond to cold and touch. When I went in for stage 1 it wasn’t clear if they would be able to save the nipples or not. I told them to take them if they needed to. i really liked the way my nipples looked however, the thought of having smooth breasts was to a great extent a welcome one especially when going braless (typically only around the house but still). My plan if they had to take them was 3D nipple tattoos by Vinnie Myers. They look real and it isn’t til you touch them that you realize they’re not. Then I’d have the best of both worlds. In the end I got to keep my own nipples and all is good. I don’t need a bra anymore per se (i pass the pencil test with flying colors) but those pesky nipples mean I wear one. Feel free toAsk anything that comes to mind.

  • Shaleae
    Shaleae Member Posts: 15
    edited February 2018

    I am in Nebraska. UNMC is a very good hospital and I do feel confident with my team from a technical perspective. My PS said he has done at least 400 DIEP procedures. I did call my BS surgeon today and left a message with her nurse. Wanted to know if I said I don’t care about the nipples would she still recommend breast conservation or would she suggest I just go for DIEP. Like I said, she seemed really focused on saving the nipples.But 10 centimeters is a lot of tissue to remove and trying for clean margins. Knowing that you have some sensation in the breast is encouraging. I have heard about Vinny and told my husband we would make that trip if needed. How long did you have drains in? And how long before you were able to drive? I had a major surgery over a year ago and was out of work for 6 weeks but was able to drive after about a week. And how long was it until your bruises faded and you looked “normal”? You are so kind to share your experience with me

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    I had 4 drains after stage 1: 1 at each breast and 1 in each hip. The breast drains and 1 hip drain came out at post-op office visit 7 days after surgery. The remaining drain came out 4 days later. I had 2 drains after stage 2 and both came out at post-op visit 4 days after surgery. I didn't drive until sometime between week 4&6. Could I have driven earlier? Maybe. What I can tell you is that I had no idea how much you used your tummy muscles to drive. Who knew?!? You really want to rest that tummy area during recovery as you don't want the stitches to pull apart. You'll walk bent slightly at the waist for a few weeks at least. I really didn't have any bruising with stage 1. Stage 2 bruising was mostly from the lipo to get the fat for grafting. That was some wicked bruising. Looked like I'd been hit by a truck a few times. But they did fade enough in 6 weeks' time to wear a bikini at the beach over the holidays and not have anyone calling to report my husband for wife abuse - LOL! A little post surgery healing humor for your laughing pleasure: When I had my thyroid removed we didn’t say anything to our friends about it. My skin is very sensitive and plastic tape like they use for steristrips sticks to me like super glue. Weeks after surgery the strips were still in place and i couldn’t pull them off without taking tons of skin with them. We were going to dinner with friends and at the restaurant my high neckline shirt slipped a little and they were horrified at what they saw. The husband asked in a shocked tone, ‘What happened to you?!? It looks like someone slit your throat! Are you ok?’ DH replied sraightfaced, ‘Yeah, she really ticked me off and one thing led to another and I couldn’t take it anymore so I tried to kill her. Her neck is tougher than it looks. She won’t be doing that again!’ The look on their faces was priceless! We quickly told them the truth but I swear they were getting ready to call the police.

  • Shaleae
    Shaleae Member Posts: 15
    edited February 2018

    Haha! You and the hubby have a great sense of humor which I am sure helps. That is something my husband would do.I appreciate the info on your DIEP recovery. After communicating with the surgeon again I am going forward with lumpectomy and bilateral reduction tomorrow. If we don’t get the margins I will go for the DIEP. I am a planner and knowing that plans may change isn’t something I embrace but I have finally accepted it. Probably due to sheer exhaustion of trying my hardest to make the best decision. Who knows what that is? So I following the recommendation of my BS surgeon. She certainly has more experience than I do at this point! If I end up proceeding to DIEP I am certain more questions will be flying your way. Thanks again for all that you have shared so far. Happy Valentine’s Day!

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    Happy Valentines Day to you too! Good luck with the surgery!!

  • Reikion
    Reikion Member Posts: 50
    edited February 2018

    Shaleae,

    I hope your surgery went well and I wish you a speedy recovery. I also had a lumpectomy (left) with a reduction on the right side. My lump was only about 1 cm but they took out over 13 cms of DCIS. I went from a DD to a C. The surgery went well with clear margins and I hope the same for you.

    I recommend taking arnica montana 30C pills (homeopathic). These were suggested by my plastic surgeon and helped speed up the healing. My drains were out in 3 days. I also took these during radiation treatment.

    I wish you all the best!



  • Shaleae
    Shaleae Member Posts: 15
    edited February 2018

    Hello Reikion! Thank you for your message. It is encouraging to hear that they got clean margins with removing 13 Centimeters of DCIS. My surgery went well according to both surgeons. No surprises is what the PS said anyway. So now I just wait for pathology. I do have one drain in on the right side that will hopefully come out tomorrow when I see the PS for my first follow up appt. On my left side I have major bruising, not on the breast but under and to the side. I don't have this bruising on the right and I am guessing it is because of the drain. Even though my surgeon said he made the left breast smaller to compensate for the effects radiation may have, it looks bigger at this point. I am guessing because there is more swelling because there is no drain? Who knows? I will find out tomorrow. I appreciate the tip on the arnica montana pill. I will definitely look into that. I believe I am also now a C cup. They look so different. Small and not droopy. It is very interesting to see your body changed like that. I am hoping this is it for surgery. I would be very sad if I put my breasts through all of this drama only to have them cut-off in the end. Thanks again for the message. It really does help to hear from others who have been through it!

  • Reikion
    Reikion Member Posts: 50
    edited February 2018

    Shaleae,

    I am so glad to hear your surgery went well! Do try the Arnica Montana.... it helps with the bruising.

    Best,

    Reikion

  • Mrsmcg
    Mrsmcg Member Posts: 67
    edited March 2018

    I have Arnica cream that works great for pain relief. I have never taken Arnica in pill form. My PS said that I shouldn't take any herbal supplements and vitamins 7 days prior to surgery, so I am afraid to start taking it.

  • Shaleae
    Shaleae Member Posts: 15
    edited March 2018

    My PS also suggested I take this supplement when I asked if so could do anything to help the swelling and bruising but I quit taking it because I was going back for a re-excision today. I will probably start again in a few days. My PS is very conservative and cautious so I feel okay about taking the pills but I had no idea there was a cream and that it could help with pain! Where did you find yours if you don’t mind me asking? Smart move to quit all pills before surgery. Too many opportunities for reactions!

  • Reikion
    Reikion Member Posts: 50
    edited March 2018

    Arnica cream and pills are both available at Whole Foods stores. Also available on Amazon.

    Boiron is a brand I have used.

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