Vaginal Hormone Treatment

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Veeder14
Veeder14 Member Posts: 880

Just wondering if Vaginal Hormone treatment like Estrace Cream is not recommended if you are ER +? I've been using it sparingly and avoided systemic hormones however the dryness, itching symptoms are horrible without it.

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  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited February 2018

    Hi Veeder,

    You may find some helpful information on the main Breastcancer.org site's pages on Vaginal Changes, which offer some tips to help manage side effects like vaginal dryness and itching, including vaginal estrogen information.

    We hope this helps!

    --The Mods

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    I asked about these when I went for my oophorectomy pre-op visit. Right now Estrace seems to be considered safe to use. However the warnings that come along with it seem to indicate that enough of the hormone enters the blood stream to have other hormone related effects (ie blood clots). There is a new med that recently came out called Intrarosa. It is a vaginal suppository with hormone precursor (DHEA) that gets converted to estrogen locally in the vaginal tissues without raising the estrogen/estrodiol levels systemically to standard lab detectable levels and does not have the same side effect profile & warnings as traditional estrogen creams.

  • Veeder14
    Veeder14 Member Posts: 880
    edited February 2018

    Lula73

    Thanks so much for the information! I'll check out Intrarosa and talk to my doctor about it.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2018

    There was just a medical article that helped untangle the estrogen warnings, which are based on oral rather than topical use and therefore are potentially irrelevant in relation to vaginal use. Let me see if I can find and post it.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2018

    A few recent reports. Medscape requires membership, which is free.

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/877313

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/877304

    https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publica...

    "Data do not show an increased risk of cancer recurrence among women currently undergoing treatment for breast cancer or those with a personal history of breast cancer who use vaginal estrogen to relieve urogenital symptoms."

    There's a more recent report out there, but I can't find it in my email archives at the moment.

  • Veeder14
    Veeder14 Member Posts: 880
    edited February 2018

    I'd really like to read it. I see the black box warnings on Estrace, which I started a couple of year before this breast cancer diagnosis.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2018

    Here's the recent one, which doesn't address ER+ cancer survivors directly:

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/890209?src=wn...

    "Furthermore, current product labeling for low-dose vaginal estrogen, which is based on "class labeling" without a distinction between local and systemic products, is not evidence-based and has further exacerbated the trend toward underutilization of vaginal estrogen among US women" (emphasis mine).

    To the left side of the article are links to related articles I haven't yet read.

  • Veeder14
    Veeder14 Member Posts: 880
    edited February 2018

    Thank you for both articles!

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2018

    My MO, who's at a teaching hospital, and my oncological gynecologist, whom I see because of endometrial thickening, are both comfortable with low-dose estrogen cream for my genitourinary issues--I asked each of them explicitly.

  • Veeder14
    Veeder14 Member Posts: 880
    edited February 2018

    Thanks Ksusan,

    I'll definitely ask because I have to have something~the lowest dose that helps me.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2018

    Estradiol .01 is now available from Teva in generic. Still expensive, but I gather not as bad as the original.

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    the Intrarosa is $25 with their coupon card even if you're cash pay or insurance does not cover it.

  • Veeder14
    Veeder14 Member Posts: 880
    edited February 2018

    ok, I guess the insurance company will require I get generic now that it's available. I've got very good insurance that pays for all of these meds. I'm glad the manufacturer offers coupons.

  • thecargirl
    thecargirl Member Posts: 94
    edited February 2018

    I wanted to let everyone know that has been using 1% Estradiol vag cream of a high systemic response when used! This is what happened to me, two years ago I had my Estradiol checked just for curiosity, I am way past menopause and I was curious, my number was 33pg/ml as expected. I have been on Arimidex since 1/17, last month I thought I should have my Estradiol number checked. The result was 181.1pg/ml!!!! I was shocked, what could of caused it to be so high, interesting enough I had used the vag cream the night before my blood test. How could it be so high when I am on Arimidex? I read all the material I could find and yes Estradiol vag cream can affect you systematically even though my doctors told me it was fine to use. I had my blood level checked yesterday, three weeks after my last blood test and of course NO Estradiol ……my blood level for Estradiol today was 21.1 pg/ml, right where it should be. I had used the cream infrequently but I am so happy I had my blood levels checked, I will never use Estradiol cream again. I was diagnosed on 9/16 with a 7mm pure mucinous, Stage1 Grade1, estrogen and progesterone strong positive, HER -.., neg node. I had a lumpectomy and radiation. The FDA approved mama print test was not necessary when you are low clinically so my doctor did not order and my doctor is not sold on the Oncotest, based on the kinds of tumors tested, it is also not FDA .approved. I have my Masters Degree in Nursing and love keeping up with all the posts.

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    thecargirl-so glad you caught that! If you find you need something for atrophy or painful intercourses, the Intrarosa might be a good option as it does not increase systemic levels of estradiol to a measurable amount by standard labs. I haven’t had to use it yet but was briefed on it by 2 different GYNs (who won’t prescribe estrogen cream for BC patients) as safe for us to use. In the meantime, I have found that coconut oil or a personal lubricant that is coconut oil based helps greatly with vaginal dryness everyday as well as an extra application during intercourse.

  • thecargirl
    thecargirl Member Posts: 94
    edited February 2018

    Thank-you Lula!


  • momoschki
    momoschki Member Posts: 682
    edited February 2018

    Chiming in here in the Intrarosa- haven’t had BC, but considered high risk, so I need to be careful about potentially upping systemic estrogen levels. My gyn prescribed this and I can say that it certainly does work (quickly!), but my PCP was rather leery about its safety; DHEA (its active ingredient) is a precursor to both estrogen and testosterone, so while it is technically not a hormonal treatment, the body converts it to sex hormones (which theoretically remain localized). PCP says he has seen women using this having out of range testosterone levels. It’s a very new drug, so no long term studies yet. He thought Vagifem was a better option for me (I had an allerguc reactions to the estring when’s I tried that). So- I am confused. Checking with the onc soon forher to weigh in.

  • Lula73
    Lula73 Member Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2018

    momoschi- glad you were able to try intrarosa and it worked quickly. That’s reassuring. Thank you for sharing. To help put your mind at ease, in the clinical trials for Intrarosa the levels of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone did rise very very slightly however nowhere near the rise that the labs doctors use would never pick it up. It’s that slight and that far below the sensitivity capabilities of normal lab equipment. Those levels were detected using very sensitive specialized lab equipment to get a view of the absolute values. Unless you’re an GYN, odds are you haven’t gotten the opportunity to explore the data, how it works and what makes it different than the other choices like vagifem and estring and estrace. So a PCP typically will not have been inserviced on it by the rep or the medical liaison. I don’t work for the company that makes it, but I do have a science background and did my own in depth review after having it recommended by 2 unrelated GYNs who never write estrogen/estrodial products for BC patients. Be well!

  • momoschki
    momoschki Member Posts: 682
    edited February 2018

    Lula, thank you for the additional information, which is reassuring. I did read the results of the clinical trials and still had a couple of concerns though. Firstly, the trials apparently lasted only 12 months, so no long term research on something we would presumably be using for longer than a year. Also, when I did some digging, it seemed that about 20% of the women experienced hirsutism as a side effect, about 10% got acne. If there were truly no systemic effect, then it’s hard to understand how these (androgenic) symptoms could have occurred.

    I want so much for this to be a safe and viable alternative! My gyn was enthusiastically touting this and I want so much to believe her, but alas, I’m skeptical (or paranoid)

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