IDC +ER, +PR and her2 neg chemo regimen

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LHebs
LHebs Member Posts: 26

Hello All,

I have a question for those that have/have IDC with node involvement from biopsy. I am also +ER, +PR and her2 neg. I have seen 2 separate MO and thought they recommend AC and T, there are some differences to the treatment plan.

1st- AC biweekly for 4 doses and 12 weekly taxols after with port placed. Treat with tamoxifen after. Nothing about ovarian suppression.

2nd- AC biweekly for 4 doses but 4 doses taxol biweekly (assuming dense dose), no Port needed. Will also be given neulesta the day before each AC tx. Treat with Lupron and AI after along with ovarian suppression during chemo.

I also am a 37 yo female, no co-morbidities, with no kids who is in the process of egg retrieval prior to Chemo (done in 2 weeks), in hope to have kids later.

My questions are

1) Anyone is the same situation and what was recommended to you?

2) Who has used either of these regimens and would you recommend it?

3) Has anyone heard that one is better than the other?

4) Thoughts on Lupron and AI instead of tamoxifen?

5) Effects of ovarian suppression during treatment and its effect on prognosis?

I had hoped that they would have been the same. One is a nationally recognized teaching hospital and the other is a well respected smaller hospital 20mins from the other. Afraid to make the wrong decision.

Any insight would be helpful.

LHebs

Comments

  • CBOK
    CBOK Member Posts: 73
    edited January 2018

    I'm also ER/PR+,HER2- I'm 38, premenopausal but already have children. Not sure how much of role that plays in differences of treatment.

    My treatment regimen will be the first scenario you have listed. 4 dose dense AC, then 12 weekly T. I haven't researched much yet regarding options for what comes after the initial chemo. My MO has planned the usual 5yrs of Tamoxifen.

    I will also be getting Neulasta with the AC although I didn't know about that part of the plan until today so that could be part of your option 1 as well. They'll be giving me some prophylactic anti-nausea medicine - Zofran. And they're also having me take a weird little OTC cocktail to help with the bone pain associated with Neulasta: Benadryl,Claritin, and Zantac.

    I had a port placed when I had my mastectomy on the 8th. It's a weird feeling having it there. However, I was immensely bothered by the idea of having to get the "sturdier" iv line each time so I opted for the port. I have an older cousin that said the chemo was really rough on her veins (20yrs ago and doesn't know what kind) and wishes she had gotten a port.

    I agree it would be a lot more reassuring if there was a solid consensus that says Xcancer = Ytreatment standard.

  • Axolotl
    Axolotl Member Posts: 56
    edited January 2018

    Hi LHebs,

    I'm 37, ER+/PR+/Her2 neg, like you. I may or may not need chemo, waiting on some test results. I just started ovarian suppression using Lucrin plus Aromasin. My MO recommended ovarian suppression+AI because there are several studies, including SOFT and TEXT, which show that it provides a benefit in younger women compared to Tamoxifen. However, the trade-off is that ovarian suppression + AI may come with worse side effects than Tamoxifen. Also, the benefit is only a few percentage points. I decided I would try it and see how things go; the ovarian suppression is reversible. My MO wanted me to go on ovarian suppression anyway if chemo is needed, to preserve my ovaries. Here's a link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC41755...


  • Axolotl
    Axolotl Member Posts: 56
    edited January 2018

    Here's another link regarding ovarian suppression: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/859195#vp_2

    And an excerpt:

    Beverley Moy, MD, clinical director at the Massachusetts General Hospital Cancer Center, in Boston, told Medscape Medical News that the breast cancer community had been waiting for years to hear these data on whether there was an extra benefit from ovarian suppression.

    Commenting last year on the results from the SOFT and TEXT studies, she said that there was no significant benefit in the overall study population but that a significant difference was seen in the population of women who were premenopausal after chemotherapy. These women tended to be younger and have more aggressive disease, she said. In absolute terms, these women, after 5 years, had 7.7% fewer breast cancer events with exemestane and ovarian suppression compared with women receiving tamoxifen alone.

    "I do think the data are practice changing in this subset of patients," Dr Moy told Medscape Medical News. "However, you have to temper that benefit with the fact that the combination had significantly more side effects. Making premenopausal women abruptly menopausal can lead to many side effects — hot flashes, sexual dysfunction, depression...and also joint pain and potentially osteoporosis with the aromatase inhibitor.

    "You have to weigh the risks against the benefits," she said. "It's a difficult clinical situation that we face. These are young women with aggressive disease, and I'm delighted that we have found a treatment option that provides benefit, but it comes at a cost."

  • LHebs
    LHebs Member Posts: 26
    edited January 2018

    Axolotl-

    Thanks for the information. I'll be doing more research for sure.

  • ButterflyLily
    ButterflyLily Member Posts: 104
    edited January 2018

    LHerbs - I'm starting a total of 8 chemo cycles on Feb 9th 2018. 4 cycles of AC first followed by 4 cycles of T - every other week. With neulasta after each session to boost my immune system. After that, tamoxifen. I just turned 41.

  • LHebs
    LHebs Member Posts: 26
    edited January 2018

    I will be starting the 8th. Just trying to decide which taxol plan to do 4 or 12. I really am strugfling with the choice. What made you pick the 4 week dose dense over the 12 weeks?

  • DxAt37
    DxAt37 Member Posts: 52
    edited January 2018

    hi, it seems like we have very similar stats. I am on AC+T regimen. Dose dense 4xac and 4xtaxol.

    I did get a port in my arm. My mo said the scar would be less disfiguring...

    I just got my first round this Thursday. So far so good, I think the steroids are giving me lots of energ

  • DxAt37
    DxAt37 Member Posts: 52
    edited January 2018

    also, I will be on tamaxifen -prob for 10yrs. My mammaprint came back and I am high risk-my MO thinks 10 yrs would be better in my case. Can’t say I am excited for the side effect

  • LHebs
    LHebs Member Posts: 26
    edited January 2018

    Thanks for the information. Looks like we will be on the same schedule. Please keep me posted on how you are doing and I will do the same!! 

  • LHebs
    LHebs Member Posts: 26
    edited January 2018

    DxAt37 and Butterflylily. 

    Thanks for the information. Looks like we will be close to the same schedule. Please keep me posted on how you are doing and I will do the same!! Seems like they offer DD taxol to the younger BC pt's since we are all late 30's early 40's.

  • Roaming_Star
    Roaming_Star Member Posts: 103
    edited January 2018

    Hi LHebs,

    Looks like I had the same diagnosis as yourself through a biopsy. I was given 12 weeks of Taxol and then 4 rounds of AC. Originally my tumour was 2.2 cm with 2 lymph nodes involved. My Allred for both ER and PR were 8 - the highest. After my mastectomy and axilla lymph node removal my pathologhy report showed only partial response for my tumour (1.6 cm) and NO response for the lymph nodes. Infact more cancer was found in the lymph nodes and in the vascular system around the lymph nodes.

    After this I researched and found out that the neoadjuvant chemo is really not effective on hormone positive breast cancer. If I had to do it all over again I skip right to surgery.

    Do you have your allred score? This score tells you if your cancer is very hormone sensitive. It might be helpful to ask what they are hoping to see happen for you after chemo - tumour shrinkage, breast conserving surgery? I did not know that hormone positive breast cancer does not respond well to the chemo - hormone therapy is more effective.

    Just thought I would let you know my story with chemo. I wish my MO had told me that my cancer was not a good candidate for this treatment. Many months of treatment for not much in return.


  • LHebs
    LHebs Member Posts: 26
    edited January 2018

    Roaming_Star

    Thanks for the info. I am going to have to do some research. You are the first person I have heard this from. Both of the MO's I saw recommend chemo first. Do know allred score but I am high being 99% ER+ and 91% PR+. All ready started on femara last week.

    They recommended chemo first for many reason. Shrink tumor, kill what's in nodes and anything that is circulating to give me more options for surgery.

    Were you on ovarian suppression while on chemo? I have been on femara since wed and will be starting chemo next wed.

    Hope everything else is going better for you.

    Lhebs





  • Julianna202
    Julianna202 Member Posts: 2
    edited March 2018

    I’m not sure I have much to say to help but just wanted to note that I’m struggling with the AI/OS v. Tamoxifen decision myself. (34 y/o, stage 1A IDC, ER/PR+/her2-, oncotype 16, no chemo). First opinion recommended AI/OS, almost as if it were the only option due to my age. Second opinion recommended 10 years of Tamoxifen and didn’t even raise AI/OS until I asked. Not sure the reduction of a few percentage points is worth the side effects and lifestyle impact to me but feel kind of “lazy” or “weak” not doing everything possible.

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