7.5 years out and now pregnant. Don't know what to do.
Hello. I apologize if I am posting in the wrong place. I also apologize if I appear to be insensitive for what I am about to ask about. I was dx 2010 with Stage IIIB BC. 6/23 lymph nodes were positive, ER-/PR+ and HER 2 +. I did 4 months of chemo, 25 doses of radiation and a year of Herceptin. I was 31 at the time of diagnoses. The first couple of years after treatment were really really rough emotionally and mentally. Through it all my husband has been beside me every step of the way, he has been my solid and loving rock.
I became pregnant 4 years ago, not on purpose. I was ecstatic. I felt that this was God's assurance that I would be okay-that I was completely healed! I was happy, hopeful and made dreams with and for my unborn child. I even named it Hope! Until I went to my 12 week checkup with a smile on my face and I was told that there was no heartbeat. It had stopped growing at 10 weeks. I can't even begin to tell you how devastated I was. Not even in my roughest chemo days or when I thought of my mortality was my heart so broken as it was that day, that week. When I was going through chemo/treatment, I had a fighting chance. There was no fight now. All I had was a dead baby that I was carrying around unaware for 2 weeks.
As unbelievable as it sounds, 4 years later I have made my peace with it. Eventually the pain went away. I told myself that there was no special plan because why would God raise my hopes and then just take it away anyway? Crap happens, life happens. I remembered that I asked God to let me live and heartbreak and disappointment are part of what living means-of being alive.
Well we screwed up on our birth control again and this time my thoughts are completely different. I am 38 now and my body is not as it used to be. My kids are 12 and 9. I was able to become successful in my job. I am still under a mountain of CC debt thanks to the 9 months that I did not work during treatment. (My husband stayed home and took care of our kids for 9 years) My fear of recurrence has slowly dissipated in time. I look at those awful years as a really bad memory. My priorities are saving to buy a house, preparing for college, putting away money for retirement etc. I am pregnant again and it is to early to say if its viable or not (8 weeks). I contemplated termination even though I was raised to think it was wrong. I wanted to and I told my husband I would terminate and he was supportive. This may sound so cut and dried but its not. I've cried in helplessness, shame and anger (he was supposed to get a vasectomy and kept postponing) and couldn't decide. Finally at the doctors office the PA told me that whatever I decided they would be able to help. She did not judge me. I don't know what made me change my mind but I just couldn't book the procedure. I don't want to me a mother again but I just couldn't go through this procedure so I was resigned to the fact that this is happening. I am not happy about it, there is no joy in my heart about it, we cannot afford it but I can't take a life.
I told my husband. A few days later HE's the one breaking down and crying asking me if I would hate him if he asked me to terminate. He said that he is really afraid that it would make my cancer come back and that he would chose me any time over this baby. He said what if it makes the cancer come back and I die and he would have to take care of a baby and the kids on top of losing me. I'm pretty sure he also has traumatic memories of that awful time.
I researched the paper that came out this year at San Antonio with the findings that the risk of recurrence does not increase after pregnancy after BC. After reading it ,I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't apply to me. I did not have early stage BC. I had it in my lymph nodes too. Also even though i was ER- I was told that since I was PR+ that I should take Tamoxifen for 5 years. I took it for 2 months and became severely depressed. Never took it again and my life was happier.
Has anyone gone through something similar? Or can anyone offer insight? I feel that yes my BC can come back at anytime and kill me but do I have a right to deliberately increase my risk? I need to be alive for my husband and other two children. At the same time I know I have a life inside me and I can't believe that I am even thinking of ending it. Any words of wisdom and advice? I'm sorry if this is offensive to other BC survivors who are infertile. This is not my intention. I don't have anybody to confide in who would have the remotest idea of what I am going through or what I have been through.
Comments
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First of all, there's nothing insensitive about your letter. You're in a difficult position, and I really feel for you. I don't really have any advice to offer you because I'm one of the infertile people who was never in your shoes, so I can't know what it's like to have to make this decision. But please don't think that I am offended because you're clearly in a lot of pain over this.
You can talk to doctors and get advice from them about how much risk you're taking by continuing the pregnancy; I don't know whether they would be able to give you any better basis for making what may be the most difficult decision of your marriage. Whatever they say, there are no guarantees either way. What concerns me more is whether you would be able to live with a decision to terminate. I think you will have to be really comfortable with that decision for it not to haunt you, and it doesn't sound like you really are right now. Keep talking to your husband and see if you can come to a consensus on this together. Whatever you decide you should not be judged for it by anyone on these boards.
My best wishes to you and your husband as you work your way through this. We're here to listen if nothing else.
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Thank you Kathleen26, for reading and for being kind. I appreciate all that you wrote
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Hi Letlet, so sorry you are facing such trying times. My daughter had the same type of miscarriage and it was so emotionally difficult for her so I have a feel for what you went through.
You're a different person now, with different circumstances. One thing I learned after I was diagnosed was that I needed to become more selfish. It was ok. No, not just ok, it was important- to take care of my own needs. This diagnosis reminds us that our time here is limited and if you don't look after your own hopes and dreams now then when will you.
Only you can decide what is right for you, in your life. Don't let other people's expectations or values influence you. Look in your heart and the answer will be there.
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Let me start by saying I don’t have children and never wanted any, these are my feelings only and they’re unpopular to the vast majority but from a purely practical standpoint I would be more concerned about the biological risk to the child involved with your diagnosis at such a young age. Also, the financial burden and fact that your body may not be ready/able to carry the child to term. Ultimately, you must decide what you can live with but I see no shame in choosing to end the pregnancy and focus on what you already have.
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Letlet,
I pray for you and your hubby.
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Thank you Luckynumber, I do feel very selfish and this is perhaps what I'm struggling with. You have no idea what it means to have a stranger who cares telling me its ok to be selfish.
Thank you ilimae, I did test negative for BRCA but yes financially we are not prepared for a third child. Also you are right, my body is not the same as it was when I was 25. I have all these aches and pains now and I can't imagine spending endless nights with a newborn. I remember all too clearly the exhaustion and don't know if I can do it again. Even though I had PT my left arm never regained the same strength as my right arm after my lymph node dissection and I think about carrying a heavy baby/car seat and stuff and wonder can I do this all over again or am I just making excuses.
Thank you Castigame, I appreciate it. We are in such turmoil right now and I know we can use every help that we can and that includes prayers.
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No way would I ever judge you, whatever you decide to do. We call it "choice" for a reason. Hugs.
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Hi Letlet,
Don't worry about any one judging you! you have been through the absolute mill, as has your husband, and deserve to have a happy life, whatever you decide. There is no easy answer unfortunately and i can tell from your posts that you know this, and the turmoil is so hard to deal with. The best thing you can do, isgo into a quiet place and figure out what YOU and your hubbie will be ok with, and move forward in what will be best for you, and have peace of mind with whatever decision you choose. No one knows what they would do in your situation, and no one has a right to judge, so don't even even worry about that.
prayers & hugs
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Letlet, I tested negative for genetic mutations too but my mother and her sister were both diagnosed before me, I was told that all females cousins should be tested starting at age 31 (got bc at 41 myself), this is because there are still many genetic factors currently unknown. Just throwing that out there, I had no idea how high risk I was assuming that my mothers negative test results meant I was at no more risk than anyone else. It seems that is untrue, we just haven’t discovered the link yet.
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ilimae, thank you for clarifying. You have given me something else to think about in my decision making process. I admit I didn't think of that just because I was BRCA neg.
pupmom and and Elfmcg - thank you.
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I'm sorry your going through this right now. I think your considering all the factors and trying to make a tough decision that's right for your family. Whatever you and your husband decide it's your lives and you have to do what's right for your family. Sending good vibes your way.
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Letlet -
There is no judgement - just sending a lot of support and comfort...I don't think anyone could ever give/know a clear cut answer here, and seriously when it comes to a decision like this....??? Seriously how can this ever be an easy situation to maneuver and everything you have to feel to get to the outcome...is very difficult/complicated. I think the process to your answer is probably not going to feel "clear/solid/"a-ha" moment...Letlet when you and your husband get to the right answer for you two - then have faith and know that is "right" answer. The only people that have to "understand" it - is you two....have faith in what you two built, how far you both have come on the road you have traveled as a couple and a family. Your fears are real and your husband's fears are real...there was no intent here - meaning you did not set out to get pregnant and now are saying "oh too bad I have changed my mind." How we are raised - is not necessarily what is best or right or correct.... keep praying - keep talking to your husband - again sending you a lot of support and comfort....
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Letlet, I so much feel for you, and I wish I could think of some way to help. I try to put myself in your shoes, and I honestly don't know what I'd do. I've always thought I could never "take a life" (your words - not being judgemental) so have kept in the back of my mind that any child resulting from what I have done - at any point in my life - would be born, but the thought of recurrence is terrifying, especially since the kids I have now are 9 and 10 and I want to be around for them. I'm sorry my response isn't a suggestion or advice, but I couldn't leave your post without saying I get it - this would be a terrible choice to make.
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Mucki1991, Peacetoallcuzweneedit and Outfield, thank you for for responses. They are helping more than you could know.
I have spent the day reading all the responses and crying. I am grateful for the understanding and caring that you've all shown. We have all been through so much. I think I know what to do, it's just really hard and painful. My brain knows the answer but my my heart is crushed. I realize that either outcome is a painful one and that the flash of insight or instant wisdom is not going to happen.I am telling myself that the reason why it hurts so much is because it matters so much. I am afraid of looking in the mirror and saying is this the kind of person I am? What will the kids say if they found out? What will my mother think? As pointed out by many this is between what my husband and I can live with. Recurrence IS terrifying and dying from this stupid, stupid cancer is one of my worst fears.
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letlet, hugs, your upbringing shapes you but that's just the beginning. As life goes on the way you see and feel things changes, you learn and adapt. You make descisions based on now. It's not selfish at all you are considering the impact of a pregnancy with the real fear of loosing another baby And how much harder it will be at 38 post BC. And raising a Child would have a huge impact. Looking after yourself first is not selfish it is essential. There should never be shame or judgement in a termination. Sounds like your husband is amazingly supportive and cares for you deeply. I'm no not religeous so sending you vibes for strength, clarity and good h
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Dear Letlet, first of all I feel truly sorry for what you are going through. I want to share with you my recent experience, it may give you additional information for taking a decision.
I have the same type of cancer as yours. Initial pathology was Er-/Pr+ Her2+, done at the local hospital, with 40%-60% Pr+. Then the test was repeated twice, at Dana Farber and by an individual consultant, which both found the pathology to be Er-/Pr-, Her2+. I went to Dana Farber for second opinion and they were adamant that Er-/Pr+ does not really exists, so they were the first to repeat pathology tests. Finally, I had it done by an individual consultant to see which one is repeatable. Like I said, both, she and Dana Farber people, found Er-Pr-, which resulted in tamoxifen being dropped out of my treatment plan.
Maybe you could ask the doctor to repeat your tests or you could send it to an individual pathologyst consultant (mine was Jean Simpson, you could Google her). If it turns out that you are hormone negative, your risk of recurrence after 8 years is much lower than for hormone positive cancer. I personally think that if a Her2, grade 3 cancer which was already out in 6 nodes didn't come back until now, there is little risk it will ever come.
That being said, any new pregnancy temporarily increases the risk for breast cancer. So if you still have breast tissues left, there is an increased risk for a new cancer developing there, due to naturally occurring changes in breast during pregnancy and breastfeeding.
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Letlet, so sorry you are struggling with this decision. I can't imagine that anyone with a heart, including your mother or children, could ever judge you for doing what you and your husband believe is best for your family. Termination is never an easy decision, and you may forever feel some sadness over it. But if it is what you and your husband choose for the good of your family, you should never feel regret.
Wishing you peace,
Regin
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I’m so very sorry that you are faced with making such a hard decision. As if cancer and losing one pregnancy wasn’t bad enough. I have no advice, just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you
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Letlet- you are faced with a very tough decision. No judgement here either. The one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is adoption. On the one hand you’ve looked at termination. On the other you’ve looked at continuing and starting all over with a newborn and all the repercussions that will/could happen (up all night, diapers, leaving DH with a baby to raise, etc. But what if you continued and gave another couple an amazing gift? Just putting that out there as a viable option. No matter which path you choose, make sure it’s the one that leaves you with a feeling of peace.
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letlet
Have you thought that this pregnancy means you're still a live? Could it be a miracle? I'm not judging but it does offer hope. Maybe a cure. I don't know but sense being diagnosed I feel like where is the joy? Everyone I tell cry. When I answer their questions about the grade, status etc they cry. Even the ones who are in the medical profession cry. So just maybe you are carrying a little miracle cure. Hugs to you and your decision. I'm on day 8 of this Journey.
Hopefully you will find peace with your decision.
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I'm very sorry for the anguish this situation is causing you. If cancer is your major concern, given your young age, it is possible that you (like any of us) could have cancer again at some time in the future, with or without a pregnancy. Or you might not. Have you received any advice from your oncologist on the risks of cancer recurrence associated with pregnancy? If you are advised the chance is low, how will that impact on your decision making?
However, I see from your posts there are other factors also influencing you such as finances and your ability to cope physically with the demands of mothering a new baby. I encourage you to think long and hard about how much these factors will impact, and is it possible things may work out better than you fear. Could your husband help with some of the demands of looking after a new baby?
I hope and pray you will make a right decision that gives you peace and no regrets, and that your husband supports you at this time.
Perhaps some other ladies who had an unplanned child could comment on how it worked out for them.
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I think that an unplanned pregnancy at any time can be a difficult proposition, fraught with conflicting head and heart issues. When you add in the impacts on possible cancer recurrence risk, finances, family life, coping, etc - it becomes that much more difficult.
Our family and childhood influences can haunt us forever. So can the worries of what others will think if they know. And your own worries about how you'll deal with this decision down the road - either way.
Of course, time is of the essence here. Not to pressure you when you already are under a lot of strain, but just the fact that the decision and possibilities get harder over time. Does it seem like having others weigh in is helping to sway you towards which option is right for you?
If the cancer recurrence risk is a primary concern then you should talk to your doctors about that. Many women on this site stop endocrine therapy in order to have a baby so the risk may be less than you think. But everyone is different.
I'm so sorry that this is happening to you right now. I think that any choice you make will have repercussions. It's really a matter of reminding yourself of all the reasons that helped you make the choice and trying to not look back.
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I think it is more important to care for those already alive than those who may potentially be alive if all goes well. It really is ok to put you first, especially as it isn't just you personally, but also your husband and your two growing children. This fetus may never need you (meaning you could miscarry again), but you know for absolutely sure that your husband and existing children DO.
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I had my OB tell me (being 100% ER positive) to not get pregnant because of being ER positive. I'm not sure the risk is the same if you're ER negative, but I don't really know that for sure. She made a big deal about the estrogen being the problem. But with that in mind, my husband already had the what-if discussion and hands down decided if it ever happened, we would take the risk and have the baby. No question there. That's what I would do. But because I don't want to ever be in that scenario (or to be on tamoxifen and be told to terminate, which we wouldn't do), we choose to not have sex. Considering a vasectomy, we'll see. I think a guy needs to work up to that! I think my OB would prefer to take out my ovaries, but we're not there yet.
Anyway, I know no one can tell you what you need to do. But that's what I would do if I were in your situation.
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Gb2115, how many children do you already have and how old are they? How old are you? What kind of financial situation are you in and can you afford staying at home with three children for several years or until they reach high school age? Can your husband support a family of five on one salary and by supporting I mean not just food on the table. Have you ever had pregnancy issues like the original poster and have you considered the risk of giving birth to an unhealthy baby - after all the treatments the OP had and you had not?
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