How long is it safe to wait for treatment after diagnosis?

Options
Zenmushroom
Zenmushroom Member Posts: 41
edited December 2017 in Just Diagnosed

So I was just diagnosed on November 16th. Stage 1. Grade 2. Est + Her2+ Proj-. Size: 1.8cm. No other tumors. No lymph node involvement.

Have been seeing doctors every week since then for tests, counseling, and discussion on how to go forward.

Trouble is, my insurance is changing at the end of this year. Currently insured with Anthem. Starting January 2018, I'll be with Kaiser and have a completely new set of doctors.

Current doctors want to get me to do surgery at the end of this year because they are worried about waiting. But the idea of rushing to the surgery makes me nervous. The plan is to do a lumpectomy, but I'm not even entirely decided about this and I'm still waiting on the results of a genetic test to come back. And I haven't met with a radiology oncologist yet to discuss whether lumpectomy is right for me.

Tentative plan is for the Surgical Oncologist to do her surgery on the 19th. They are still trying to find a date for the plastic surgeon. Probably will be 26th or 28th.

My fear is, what if there is a complication? What if I need to go back to these doctors in January, I won't be able to. Also, the Surgical Oncologist will be doing my surgery before she goes away for a week on vacation. What if I have some issue while she is on vacation? What if the Plastic Surgeon gets delayed by holiday travel? What if the pathology report shows cancer in the margins and more needs to be done?

Also, my current insurance sucks. The surgery will probably be about $4000. With Kaiser it will be much cheaper, and I'll actually get to spend the holiday with my family.

I'm wondering if it will be that big of a deal to delay treatment by about a month.

Also, if I call Kaiser now and set up an appointment for January, do you think I could risk Kaiser somehow deciding to cancel my insurance because I have cancer, even though I already received my membership card?

Thanks everyone.

Comments

  • Sara536
    Sara536 Member Posts: 7,032
    edited December 2017

    I thought Obamacare fixed the problem of denial because of pre-existing conditions when switching insurance. You might try calling your local Bar Association. They usually provide a half hour consultation with a lawyer familiar with the issues you present for $25 - $30. In your case they might even be able to do it on the phone since for them it would not be as complicated as you think.

    The medical decisions are more complicated. I would not be asking the people on these forums to give you advice on how long to wait for treatment. We don't know. You might get lots of different opinions but they would be uninformed guesses and not really helpful. Do you have a nurse navigator? You really need to find out from medical people what your medical options are. It sounds like you are already set up for treatment and that your doctors think there is an urgent need. A lumpectomy is least invasive. If genetic testing would make you want a mastectomy that can be done later. The radiologist usually would not be part of the decision making team at this point. Kaiser could probably provide your followup treatment but I doubt they would just schedule you for surgery without doing their own workup. They could deal with complications that came up after the new year. You really need to feel comfortable about the urgency question before deciding about putting it off to save money. The "what ifs" are impossible to plan for. Depending on your doctor and hospital, the questions about clean margins may not even be a problem. My margins were not totally clear but no re-incision was necessary because a pathologist was on site and all was taken care of while I was still anesthetized.

    What about contacting a medical social worker? How about contacting your state's Insurance Commission?

    I wish the best of luck for you :)

  • GreenEyes81
    GreenEyes81 Member Posts: 389
    edited December 2017

    I agree with Sara, as you should discuss this with your doctor for urgency. I will share what mine said for my situation though. I was stage one and couldn't even feel any lumps. He said I would have been in the same situation with the same treatment plan had it been 6 months later. Something to consider for yourself is your grade. That indicates how quickly it is growing.

    If you have not even decided on what type of surgery, then don't let them push you into what they want. Have you had an MRI to know there is nothing else growing? For me, I orginally only had one lump and a lumpectomy was an option. If I had done that I would have had to have rads, having a mastectomy meant no rads. Radiation in its self has some serious side affects out side of just the skin issues. Granted I ended up not having the choose and an MRI found 3 more lumps, it all had to go.

    Are you looking at chemo? If so, good chance you will not be "done" in the next year. As for still waiting for the genetics testing, if you feel that will have a large impact on your desision making, wait for it. The risks of mutliple surgeries is not good if you can avoid it.

    Something else to think about, trying to have reconstruction surgery and then rads can cause a lot of problems. It may be that you want to wait to complete rads first. If you are leaning towards a lumpectomy I would absolutly meet with the RO before hand as well as the plastic surgen to discuss final decisions.

    My doctor did not agree with immediate reconstruction....I was ok with that. And now, 5 months later....I am so glad I didn't do it then. It has given me time to heal and re-evaluate what I really want as an end result besides expanders.

    If you feel your doctors are "pushing", find out why exactly.

  • edwards750
    edwards750 Member Posts: 3,761
    edited December 2017

    I agree with both ladies. My first order of business would be to discuss the sense of urgency to have the surgery. I had IDC Grade 1. Yours is Grade 2. Regardless we aren’t doctors so it would be guesswork plus it’s not a one size, fits all BC.

    I did wait a month to have my biopsy. My mammo was done in late November. Of course the real expenses would come after the first of the year. Make no mistake if my doctors had advised against waiting I would have gone ahead with it.

    Just don’t let anyone rush you. It’s your call and your life.

    Diane
  • Sara536
    Sara536 Member Posts: 7,032
    edited December 2017

    I was wrong when I said that the radiologist usually isn't part of the team before surgery. In my case she wasn't, but that is obviously not true for everyone. Good thing GreenEyes provided more information! I'll be more careful with my wording in the future.

  • Michelle_in_cornland
    Michelle_in_cornland Member Posts: 1,689
    edited December 2017

    Somewhere on this website is an article regarding growth of the tumor/tumors after one month of waiting for surgery, tests, etc. Depending on the growth rate, you can go from stage 1 to stage 2, or stage 2 to stage 3. It can also move toward your lymph area. The earlier the better, in my oncoplastic surgeon's opinion, and in my MO's opinion. I did have rads, and it was no big deal, no skin issues, etc. I worked with a great team, was diagnosed on August 8th, surgery was 29th of that same month, so 21 days later, had rads starting in October, etc. There was some growth of my tumor in just those 21 days. My tumor was not palpable, as it went from top to chest wall area. I would recommend a lumpectomy if you have a simple tumor. You can always go for more later.

  • Zenmushroom
    Zenmushroom Member Posts: 41
    edited December 2017

    Thanks everyone. Let me just answer some questions that were addressed.

    Urgency: My doctors say while waiting a month won't kill me, they are really uncomfortable with the idea of waiting on cancer, which is why they are pushing me to do the surgery now. They are afraid that if I wait for Kaiser, after all the insurance bureaucracy I may not get around to starting treatment until the middle or end of January (delaying my treatment by a month or more).

    Radiology Oncologist: I'll be meeting with a radiology oncologist on the 14th. So I guess if what he says really disturbs me, I can cancel the surgery, or change my mind about the lumpectomy.

    Genetics Test: I'll be getting the results by the 18th. So I suppose if bilateral mastectomy is necessary, maybe I can change my surgery plans at the last minute?

    The tumor: So far, there is nothing in the lymph nodes and I only have one tumor. It seems like they caught it before it spread and got complicated.

    FURTHER QUESTIONS:

    Can you travel directly after surgery? I'm really bummed about the idea of not seeing my family this Christmas because after dealing with all this crappy cancer stuff I was really looking forward to spending time with them. And now cancer has taken that away from me. Do you think I can travel after a lumpectomy, and then get home before the plastic surgery without too many complications?

    FURTHER THOUGHTS:

    I guess I need to write down a list of my fears and concerns and bring this to the Surgical Oncologist since I'm seeing her this Wednesday and hopefully that'll help make up my mind.

  • Reikion
    Reikion Member Posts: 50
    edited December 2017

    Hi Zenmushroom,

    I was diagnosed in Dec 2015 with DCIS - I went in since I felt a lump and a larger area of breast that didn't feel right overnight. I had Kaiser and met with a board -- team of Surgeon, Oncologist and Radiologist at the end of December. They gave me a choice of lumpectomy, mastectomy or oncoplastic lumpectomy and reduction on the other side. I wasn't ready for anything --- wanted additional opinions. Met with a Kaiser Plastic surgeon after meeting the board. I asked my surgeons how much time I had to make a decision. They said a month would make no difference in my case. Although they strongly suspected it was more than DCIS. I had another opinion from a board at a different Kasier location. Also from non-Kaiser surgeon (UCSF). I finally decided to have a lumpectomy and reduction. Surgery only happened at end of Feb --- about 2.5 months after diagnosis --- took time to schedule surgeon, plastic surgeon etc.

    I recommend asking the surgeons why they want surgery so soon. Also don't hesitate to get another opinion.

    My oncologist is non-Kaiser. I decided to go outside of Kaiser since I wanted to enroll in a clinical trial and the Kaiser oncologists did not approve of it.

    My tumor turned out to be less than 1 cm. But they took out over 13 cms of DCIS.

    Wishing you the best with your decision.

    Reikion



  • Zenmushroom
    Zenmushroom Member Posts: 41
    edited December 2017

    Hey there Reikon.

    I think the fact that it is a moderately growing invasive cancer that is her2 + makes them nervous about waiting. They haven't really given me a concrete reason for why waiting is bad, aside from the fact that nothing good can happen from waiting. But I'm wondering if rushing surgery just to beat an insurance deadline can be just as bad as waiting a month.

  • Teddy88
    Teddy88 Member Posts: 102
    edited December 2017

    Dear Zen:

    That's alot on your plate.....you are a very strong woman.

    Do you have a GP? Mine agreed to be my partner in handling all the cancer specialist issues and decisionmaking. Very useful and so comforting. I had an ally, and perhaps you can, too. They answered alot of these “noisy worries” swirling about in my mind. And explained in plain english some of the cancer stuff in reports, tests etc as well as options in treating them.

    Also, could your current Anthem doctors provide treatment and make contact with your new doctors to provide seamless support for you? They can make sure that the transfer goes extremely well. You don't have to be in the middle all alone.

    I doubt Kaiser can change their mind now on your insurability - maybe a state agency can be contacted to get answers to these insurance questions if you won't have access to a GP right now?

    Gather up your allies - we all need as much help as possible when walking this path. Wishing you the very best of luck and health. Thinking of you. Will you keep us posted?

    xx

    Love,

    Belle

  • Zenmushroom
    Zenmushroom Member Posts: 41
    edited December 2017

    Thanks, Belle. What's a GP?

  • Teddy88
    Teddy88 Member Posts: 102
    edited December 2017

    Hi - GP is a general practitioner or the general doctor who keeps track of your health and sends you off to specialists for specific conditions and treatments. Can be a very helpful ally. x

  • Peacetoallcuzweneedit
    Peacetoallcuzweneedit Member Posts: 233
    edited December 2017

    A GP - general practitioner - or like a primary care physician. I second the opinion of not waiting - cancer can do what it wants...my biopsy report for my second biopsy did not catch the invasive component. It was after surgery and final pathology that showed the complete picture. I know of a survivor that I met that would have had a complete different outcome had she waited, because once again final pathology showed something that was not detected and only found after mastectomy. I also just met a survivor the other day at my PS office. She was just diagnosed with a recurrence, and has to wait 6mos for surgery related to her smoking and hx...they have her on Tamoxifen currently until the surgery can get scheduled.

    I would start collecting all your paperwork and reports now anyway...you will need to have copies of all your medical records if you are switching in January regardless. You could have complications and you may not....typically a follow up appt is scheduled 7-10days after surgeries....I know you need to feel comfortable about all of these decisions.....but to me, waiting, is a is a slippery slope....

    I am sending clarity and comfort in hopes you reach a conclusion that you feel confident with....

  • GreenEyes81
    GreenEyes81 Member Posts: 389
    edited December 2017

    Sara536-no really "wrong". :) I just knew ahead of time no rads based on my cancer type/stage if I had the mastectomy. Everyone is different. I actually saw no one until after surgery. I look back and it really would not have made a difference in my situation, but can for others.

    Zenmushroom- no matter what, you have a good head on you. You are asking the right questions that will bring you to the best desision for you.

    Traveling---how far? I had surgery 8 hours from home, spent 3 days in the hospital and then my husband drove me 8 hours home after stayng in town 24 hours. I was pretty much drugged the whole time. I stayed home two weeks, then traveled another 8 hours for a week vacation. I was beat, still on pain killers cause I was probebly doing too much.... I did nothing and was exhausted. My drains had a higher output and I had to keep one a week longer. Keep in mind this is a uni mastectomy, not lumpectomy which could be completley different. Get your doctors input on this. The nurse was a jerk, the doctor was ok with us making resonable desisions with travel.

    I guess I don't regret traveling....it was good for my family. But I really could have cared less and would have liked to be in my own bed.

  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 4,924
    edited December 2017

    Hello, Zenmushroom. I'll chime in with my thoughts.

    I would not be comfortable delaying treatment, especially with Her2+ and grade 2. I know you don't want to mess up this year's Christmas gatherings or switch insurance once you start treatment, but we are talking cancer here. Weigh the short-term inconveniences against your long-term health. It's just one Christmas. By the way, lumpectomy is typically out-patient and not a major surgery. You could be out and about a few days later. Mastectomy is a bigger deal, and reconstruction bigger still. Since lumpectomy and radiation are a package deal, it is good you will talk with the radiologist soon so you can get a good explanation of what is involved before finalizing your decision. Hopefully you will get enough discussion with your docs soon so that you will feel comfortable making the surgery choice and not feel rushed but eager to take care of business. As far as the doctor going on vacation, find out who would be available should you need to be seen.

    Typically you wait about six weeks after surgery to do radiation, so radiation and your systemic treatment (probably chemo + herceptin) would all be at Kaiser with no switching in the middle. If there were any post-surgery complications or tests later showed the need for more surgery, I'm guessing you would have the option of having Kaiser handle it, or paying out of pocket for the original surgeon.

    Know that depending on where you are, the machinery of the cancer center can move excruciatingly slowly. It may take a lot longer than you expect to get appointments, which in my opinion is another reason to just get started. (Your docs have said this already.) I would be calling or having my doctors call Kaiser on January 2, 2018 at 8:00 am to schedule the rest if they are not allowed to schedule before the switch. It is safer to not let a lot of time to pass between each step of treatment.

    This end-of-year schedule and insurance switch is not ideal and adds stress to an already stressful time. But even under the best timing, we don't have complete control. Hard, but true. Try to work out possible timelines with your current providers, one for lumpectomy and one for mastectomy if you are considering both.

    This is a steep learning curve. You are doing great.


  • Reikion
    Reikion Member Posts: 50
    edited December 2017

    Zenmushroom,

    At your appointment with the surgical oncologist on Wednesday ask as many questions as you need to. You need to feel comfortable with the Doctors and the treatment plan.

    Wishing you the best. You will make the decision that is right for you.

    Reikion

  • chronicpain
    chronicpain Member Posts: 385
    edited December 2017

    I agree with Shetland's advice, get going on it now.

    Most Kaisers are not fast-moving after the holidays, so it could take weeks before you got lined up for surgery evaluation there. Transitioning in the middle of things is doable from one insurance setup to the nextmeanwhile the tumor is at least out.

    How about a beautiful and more elaborate Easter celebration this year, instead of Christmas? That's what my in-laws do, someone always manages to get sick at Christmas, (daughter with muscular dystrophy, or mom with severe Crohns, dad with heart valve problems) , so they push celebrations to Easter, which to them as Christians is even more significant.

  • Michelle_in_cornland
    Michelle_in_cornland Member Posts: 1,689
    edited December 2017

    Here is another idea for your family:

    "Many Orthodox Christians annually celebrate Christmas Day on or near January 7 to remember Jesus Christ's birth, described in the Christian Bible. This date works to the Julian calendar that pre-dates the Gregorian calendar, which is commonly observed.

    Have a later date Christmas with your family, and take care of yourself now With Her2 positive, you have more treatment ahead of you in 2018 and you do not want to add to that burden by having a later stage or grade. This year, in January, I had an elective surgery which I had thought about for some time. When a date opened up, I knew I had to get the deed done. When it was over, I was glad that the surgery was behind me, and I could have the rest of the year to work on improving my health. I am glad that a date opened up for me, because the longer I would think about it, the "chicken" in me would come out. I am thankful that I chose my surgery, and I no longer worry about my reproductive health. I take Tamoxifen and am doing well on that. This year has been quite the ride, but I would change nothing about the lumpectomy, rads, hysterectomy/oopherectomy, Tamoxifen, etc. I have peace of mind that I made the correct decisions and have no regrets.

Categories