Alcohol, moderate drinking??

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Jnnmn7
Jnnmn7 Member Posts: 66
edited December 2017 in Life After Breast Cancer

I know that everything says little to no drinking for ER + but it all seems like it's based more on better safe than sorry. Even the research, to me at least, doesn't seem 100% other than yeah alcohol damages cells, damaged cells cause cancer and estrogen can in crease w alcohol. So many other things cause cancer too. I used to drink a lot before my diagnosis and have cut way way down but I like to drink. Now I feel so guilty about it and I know it's not worth the risk but is it really something I have to fear?? I still eat sugar, processed meats. All in moderation of course. Just curious about those of us who choose to still drink in moderation...

Comments

  • keepthefaith
    keepthefaith Member Posts: 2,156
    edited November 2017

    My MO told me moderation. No more than 5 drinks/wk. 150 mins of exercise/wk minimum. She also said she wouldn't ck my Estrogen levels bc the tumor feeds on whatever you have...and it comes from body fat, adrenal gland and ovaries (which I don't have). I do walk often, but have been unable to lose any weight. I could stand to lose 15+ lbs. I use Paraben-free hygiene and make-up products when I can. I enjoy 3-4 glasses of wine/wk. and try not to worry too much about it. QOL is important also.

  • NotVeryBrave
    NotVeryBrave Member Posts: 1,287
    edited November 2017

    I haven't really changed anything about my life! If there was something I was doing that was a known or proven cause then I'm sure I would. But I'm a pretty healthy person in general and have always been an "in moderation" sort. I don't think that anything I've done or haven't done contributed to me getting cancer therefore I don't think that changing things will make a difference.

    I don't drink much - maybe a glass of wine or a beer once every week or two. The occasional Margarita thrown in for good measure. Cancer can't steal all my joys.


  • tlfrank
    tlfrank Member Posts: 199
    edited November 2017

    I was a more than moderate drinker prior to diagnosis, and have cut back to about 1/2 of where I was. I'm probably still having too much and am working on it. I enjoy it, so it's hard.

    keepthefaith is right, quality of life is important too.

  • Manu14
    Manu14 Member Posts: 153
    edited November 2017

    I have a glass of red wine with dinner every night. Sometimes I pause and reconsider; but mostly not. I exercise six days out of seven; eat no meat except fish; eat organic fruits and vegetables; take 2000 units vitamin D3 daily; etc. I think it’s unrealistic to think everyone is going to lead a perfectly “clean” lifestyle in every category. There is no guarantee in this whole cancer scenario. Make thoughtful decisions for yourself and move on the best you can to enjoy life.

  • NicolaSue
    NicolaSue Member Posts: 111
    edited December 2017

    Really interested in the earlier comment about not testing for oestrogen on the grounds that tumours will get oestrogen from many sources. I have been getting my own oestrogen levels checked as I'm hoping to avoid chemoprevention. So is it a waste of time measuring oestrogen then do people think?

  • EastcoastTS
    EastcoastTS Member Posts: 864
    edited December 2017

    I used to have glass/2 wine after work. (Sometimes more...my bad.) It was my signal to relax and I loved it. Gotta say. Post BC, I've cut way back -- limit to 3 a week, except on vacations. It's been not as hard as I imagined because it's brought my migraine level down to almost zero! Migraines and wine are a true deal. I was amazed by this, even though I tried to limit red wine and all that crapola before due to headaches. Boy.

    Drinking is, maybe sorry to say, a part of MY culture. Glasses of wine/restaurant -- wine tastings -- beer with football game, travel to wine areas. I just can't see going with nothing, when there is some benefit to the heart from drinking, right? And what about QOL!?

    This is all a crapshoot. I've increased by organic (when possible) veggie/fruit intake, doing more filtered H20, targeted supplements (did quite a bit of that before BC, so ho hum), reducing red meat intake (which I did not do much of before anyway), more exercise (I've never been overweight, so it was easy for me to be lazy here), less stress. Yada, yada, yada.

    Hate worrying about each bite of occasional cake or wine/beer. Geez. That sucks.

  • LeesaD
    LeesaD Member Posts: 383
    edited December 2017

    NicolaSue- I don't thi

    nk it's a waste of time. Since I started Zoladex shots and then AI's, my MO has tested my estrogen levels every month when I have my blood work. The results have always been the lowest detectable levels and there have been no fluctuations. My MO said virtually undetectable. Personally I like seeing the results knowing my levels are so low. Whether it's a false sense of security I am not sure. I just know my cancer is being fed by estrogen so if my levels are so low it's not feeding. I had my levels checked Friday and first time since my ooph two weeks ago and hoping results are the same.

  • NotBrokenJustBent
    NotBrokenJustBent Member Posts: 394
    edited December 2017

    For me it is easier to go without than just an occasional drink. This Thanksgiving I had much company spanned over several days. It was festive and everyone was drinking. I found that I was having two beers before dinner and then an after dinner drink so three per day. I must say now I miss it. That is how much I use to drink prior to my DX. If anything caused my BC I would guess my alcohol intact and high stress level. Gotta get back to abstinence but there is a lot here at the house. It is like sweets. If I don't have them in the house I don't miss them but when they are here I can't stop myself. Ugh, my will power sucks.

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 2,323
    edited December 2017

    LeesaD...so good to hear someone is getting their estrogen levels checked while on anti hormone therapy! Most docs just don't do it. May I ask how they check your hormone levels? Blood, urine or saliva?

  • LeesaD
    LeesaD Member Posts: 383
    edited December 2017

    Dtad- he checks via blood. First time he checked was when I started getting Zoladex shots to suppress ovaries so I could go on AI's instead of Tamoxifen. He tested levels three weeks after first shot as he said he had to make sure I was suppressed before starting anastrozole or the AI's were useless. My MO said there used to be a time when oncologists wouldn't check estrogen levels after starting suppression until they figured out there's a percentage of women who cannot be suppressed. It's standard for him and he checks monthly. Had ooph two and half weeks ago and he just checked my levels again this past Friday and waiting for results. All results have been lowest detectable level.

  • illimae
    illimae Member Posts: 5,710
    edited December 2017

    I’ve cut way back but I drink if I feel like it, usually at parties (typically 5-6 per year) and often on Sunday nights (dinner and tv with friends), so 3 or 4 per week. I don’t feel bad about it, I stay active and eat pretty well.

  • NicolaSue
    NicolaSue Member Posts: 111
    edited December 2017

    Hi All

    Leesa thanks for coming back to my question re oestrogen testing.

    I'm getting mine done about every three months and it's done as oestradiol in blood and it's always undetectable. However there's a caveat to testing - many labs don't measure the very low levels of oestrogen so you may get an 'undetectable' result and that's only according to that lab. There may actually be low levels there. That said, if you are consistently 'undetectable' then worst case scenario you may have very low levels but they are clearly not peaking or they would become detectable. I'm having mine done every three months. I figure if one moderates alcohol, keeps exercising, and ensures oestrogen is a low as possible, that's a pretty good combination.

    I've found since my LCIS diagnosis that I simply can't drink alcohol. I get the worst headache imaginable. I never used to be like this. So my body, seems to be regulating its alcohol intake itself.

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 2,323
    edited December 2017

    LessaD...MOs do check to see if you are pre or post menopausal but then there is no other follow up. This has always concerned me. May I ask where you are being treated? I see you live in NY. I live in NJ but I'm being treated in NYC. Thanks again.

  • LeesaD
    LeesaD Member Posts: 383
    edited December 2017
    Dtad - I'm being treated at Monter Cancer Center in New Hyde Park on Long Island. It's part of Northwell Health. Monter is an impressive facility and I'm very happy with my care and doctors.
  • chronicpain
    chronicpain Member Posts: 385
    edited December 2017

    This is a tough one for me too, newly diagnosed estrogen positive, because I live surrounded by beautiful CA wine areas and wine with most dinners (even if it is a hamburger) with DH has been a big part of our lives for years, and it is part of the local culture. For years we have visited wineries, collected wines, stored them in temperature and humidity controlled caves, made spreadsheets, and oriented travel to food and wine. We usually each have a glass, five ounzes, but if it is really good, maybe up to 1/3 bottle each, or a caraffe which is 250 cc, then we recork the rest.

    So when the breast surgeon told me to limit wine to one glass every other day, I started researching and was happy to see this article, suggesting there may be better survival with BC with moderate alcohol:, perhaps due to reduction in cardiovascular risks ( which I also have)


    https://www.cityofhope.org/blog/breast-cancer-surv...


    But of course there is this, talking about risks of alcohol and total cancer ( though risks do not decline when you cut back for ten years or more)


    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevent...


    For every individual, the balance of CV risks and CA risks and importance of alcohol in their quality of life will be different. I already take the relevant vitamins.

    I am also overweight, though not obese, also a risk, and have decided to get very aggressive on weight control ( I have musculoskeletal problems so it is hard to lose, and take prednisone for autoimmune problems, which makes me hungry) and will try and compromise on the wine by cutting to a smaller glass, other than at social events or vacations. I will also double my daily walking average, already usually a torture because of my pain,

    When I did not live in northern CA it was easy for me not to drink at all, but around here wine is everywhere, and it has become one of the few things I can still enjoy (other than work, and work can be stressful even if still a positive for overall mood, and stress is also potentially bad, but unquantifiable).

    It would be interesting to see if, controlled not just for BMI but also for estrogen levels after diagnosis, the "risk" of moderate wine or other alcohol would still be there in epidemiological studies





  • Georgia1
    Georgia1 Member Posts: 1,321
    edited December 2017

    Funny story. Every single time I have a medical appointment with a new doctor I am asked how much I drink and I say, "I'm from New Orleans! So two glasses of wine a night and I consider that moderate." No one has ever raised it as an issue. Then at my first MO appointment, when I said that she replied, "I'm European and I have no problem with that!"

    So my overall take is that quality of life, cancer vs cardiovascular risks, etc. are important considerations. I do eat right, I exercise, I don't smoke, and since I'm going through radiation right now I have more protein than ever. So while I am trying to drink less, a glass of wine here or there seems inconsequential to me tho I do respect others' efforts to reduce risk any way we can.


  • Sorella
    Sorella Member Posts: 107
    edited December 2017

    Yes, I still drink and am not stopping. I am 61, doing well right now but I don't know for how long and I am enjoying my life while I have it. There is too much they don't know about what causes what (other than smoking and lung cancer) May not be our doctors favorite response

  • carolehalston
    carolehalston Member Posts: 6,887
    edited December 2017

    My husband and I have a cocktail before dinner every evening. In hot weather we favor a martini, vodka for me, gin for him. In cold weather we have an old-fashioned, either bourbon or rye. And the cocktails are 3 oz. Two full shot classes of liquor. We also like wine. Some evenings we have a glass in addition to the cocktail.

    I really enjoy my evening cocktail. It's the extra calories that concern me more than the cancer worries. I am 15 to 20 lbs overweight and struggle to lose weight. I blamed arimidex for the 5 years I took it, also blamed higher bp and cholesterol on arimidex. But my weight and health numbers didn't miraculously cure themselves when I stopped taking the little white pill. Alas! I guess I didn't factor in the reality of getting older.

    DH and I go to the gym. I average three times a week and he averages two times. We both play golf. Twice a week for me in good weather and three times for him. The reverse of the gym! LOL!

    I will be 75 in March. I visit my mother (95) in a nursing home several times a week and am shocked that some of the women residents are younger than I am. I take some meds but feel good.

    It's good to talk to bc sister drinkers!

  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited December 2017

    Carole - good to see you here. I had my first eggnog last night, heavily augmented with "Gentleman Jack". I only buy one quart each year & will enjoy every drop.

    I too have one drink most every night before dinner - gin & tonic or Bourbon & branch. And sometimes wine with dinner on top of that. Or a couple of times a month, a sip of something like Chambord or Tia Maria before bed time. I believe in moderation, but not in completely cutting out things that I enjoy. BC aside - and I've been NED for 4-1/2 years now - I am fortunate to be more healthy than many of my contemporaries.

    Sadly I agree about the calories. I do think it's the aging process (I'm 73) and the weight seems to creep up. Early this year I joined a Silver Sneakers class and go twice a week. During the summer I do water aerobics three times a week. In the winter my scale really notes the exercise cut back. Sigh. Guess I'll have to go back to the treadmill after the holidays.

    Eat, drink & be merry, for tomorrow...

  • carolehalston
    carolehalston Member Posts: 6,887
    edited December 2017

    Hi, Minus. I saw you on another forum that I added to my Favorites today. A reading forum. I have been feeling in a rut lately and my brand of "branching out" is joining some new bc forums! I looked for a forum with political discussion and found that the moderators had shut those down.

    Your spiked egg nog sounds delicious. I like egg nog but never buy it because of the calories. Isn't that sad? I am thinking that I will go back to WW meetings after Christmas. I subscribe to the online WW but it's like AA. You have to go to the meetings.

  • Hopeful82014
    Hopeful82014 Member Posts: 3,480
    edited December 2017

    I had cut alcohol out years before my diagnosis for a variety of health reasons and found that I really didn't miss it at all. I will occasionally have a glass of wine on an extremely special occasion (maybe once every year or two) but it has to be an extraordinary occasion OR a rare chance to experience a truly superlative vintage.

    For me the benefits are that it's one less 'does it/doesn't it contribute to cancer' issue to worry about, more $$ to spend on other pleasures, and (maybe most of all) AVOIDING EMPTY CALORIES! Since I have a pretty small frame it feels as though every calorie counts double and I'd rather spend them on a good cheese than an o.k. wine. Better yet, just not consume them. :)

    Happy holidays to all, however you celebrate them!

  • Labtech47
    Labtech47 Member Posts: 16
    edited December 2017

    I just treated myself to a Sam Adams White Christmas beer! Oh my...sooo goood!

    Cheers!🍺

  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited December 2017

    I just treated myself to a small glass of Tuaca. Yum.

  • SoCalLisa
    SoCalLisa Member Posts: 13,961
    edited December 2017

    I had the unfortunate outcome of chemo in that it fried my liver so I have not been able to drink for 15 years. It's amazing how much of our culture revolved around drinking. Oh, come on over for a glass of wine, or let's go beer or wine tasting, or drinks before, during and after dinner. Etc. I have a hard time having fun going wine tasting when I can't have any. People love to have me along at events so I can be the designated driver. I found a good non-alcohol beer at Trader Joe's, so many times I bring my own along. But this really isn't fun.

  • EastcoastTS
    EastcoastTS Member Posts: 864
    edited December 2017

    SoCalLIsa:

    Sorry. I know how it feels as much of my culture pre-BC revolved around wine/craft beer, and it's hard to cut down or go without completely at these events, I agree. NO fun.

    That said, I went to a wine tasting last night! LOL Tasted a few but kept it around the one glass, maybe less. It WAS fun. And dammit, we deserve fun!!!!

    Happy holidays, everyone!

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