Post-mastectomy yoga :-)
This is not a "heavy" topic, but hi all! At (very long) last, I'm starting yoga, 2 years out from surgery (as of tomorrow!) and nearly 18 months out from completing active treatment. I had BMX, no recon. I use silicon prosthetics but am going flat for working out (who cares then, right?). For my first two classes (which I loved - and I'm so not an exercise class person!), I just wore an empty sports bra under my tanks because they are too thin to wear nothing underneath. I'm thinking a bandeau or tube might be a lot more comfortable. I'm looking around, but just would like to know if anyone has tried any that they would recommend? Also, I did two classes that were centered on deep stretching. I am already feeling a lot of improvement in my radiated chest muscles as well as my stiff-feeling joints (a la tamoxifen and menopause). I work 9-10 hours a day at a computer and while I don't have LE, I've still been feeling a lot of discomfort and even tingling all the way down to my left hand. I'd love to hear from anyone out there who's been practicing for awhile or just starting too! Hugs!
Comments
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Hi IndigoMont11,
I finished chemo almost a year ago and active treatment (Herceptin) 6 weeks ago. For the past month or so I have been taking a yoga class regularly, and am now going twice a week. I had a UMX and still have a tissue expander in (will eventually get implant but letting radiated skin heal) and am on tamoxifen. I have felt lots of discomfort around the chest , shoulder, cramps, stiff, poor range of motion. But since I've started doing yoga regularly my arm and chest feel much better and tamox aches are less as well. I've also started taking magnesium which helps with aches as well. Anyway, I find the yoga makes me so happy even though I'm horribly inflexible. I have trouble with being "even" with my tissue expander and my natural droopy side-- we'll see if the implant is any better; or perhaps I'll go flat--- (i'm 48 by the way and spend much of my day in front of the computer or driving my kids (12,10) long distances).
Would love to hear of any favorite yoga poses! And if anyone with UMX/TE/Implant has bra suggestion I'd appreciate it!
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I am an avid yogi. I do hot yoga 5-6 times per week. After my BMX if resumed about 8 weeks later. It helped so much with the arm tightness. It even softened up my TEs a ton. I was not able to do the chaturangas though as I needed to work back up to those. Also, I modified any spine series w keeping my arms at my chest/sides to not put much pressure on my TEs. I just had my exchange so I am out again for a bit. I can't wait to go back. Take it slow, listen to your body. You are there for you and your well being, yoga is not a contest. That's what I like about it. Keep with it and the flexibility will come.
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I've been wearing these for piyo. Love them!
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Thanks! There's a Target I can walk to; I'll have to check that out. There are a couple of places near me also that sell Coobies; I was wondering about their bandeaus, although they look a bit more "dressy" for working out. But they would be good for summer! momwriter, several of my friends who had recon really liked the Coobies and Genie bras a lot.
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I'll let you know about favorite poses. Some of the ones that were a bit hard for my chest and shoulder gave me the best results so far, but I know it's very early in the game. In the Pure Stretch class that I did, I thought the poses were more intense than in the Restorative class, but after all was said and done, I got a lot out of it.
I can't remember what this pose was called - it was standing with our weight forward onto the toes and balls of our feet, with our hands tucked under our feet, stretching up. The stretch was good, but I kind of bruised my knuckles a little! I have to figure out the placement or do that one on a blanket (ouch).
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Yeah I can't do push-ups right now and I have trouble getting my arms to lay flat on the ground above my head but i seem to be doing okay? I can do the elephant press but only for so long. And then there's the other poses that I just have trouble with because I'm a fat ass! Hahah! Like "The Hundred" which is soooo exhausting. But was so before the surgery so I am thinking that's just me being lazy! The only real problem area I have is that they did something with the drains on my right side and now that spot gets irritated really easily. But my left side is good. So who knows! I have a physical therapist so she's been helping me work through it.
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Sparklekat, it's barely been a month since your surgery! I can't imagine doing push-ups so soon after surgery. I had a PET scan 3 weeks after surgery before starting chemo, and they strapped my arms to my sides because I couldn't raise them above my head yet. I wasn't very patient after surgery either, so I do understand, but be gentle with yourself!
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MC Beach,
How are you doing with the recovery from the implant exchange? How long do you think the recovery will be- say before you can do down dog again? I will need an exchange at some point- but now that I'm feeling so good I dread being setback from surgery. Would be good to hear your experience so I know what to expect. I've always wanted to try hot yoga.
Sparkleat you're doing amazing for such recent surgery!
IndigoMont1 I will check out the Coobie and Genie bras.
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I have been doing yoga for about 2 1/2 years now and started after all my surgeries. I LOVE it and it has really been a good thing. I have NO tightness in my chest at all even with implants. I highly recommend yoga for BC survivors!
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Love seeing a yoga thread!! I have been practicing yoga for 12 years so was really worried about stopping after my lumpectomy and node bx- I think it helps not just flexibility but mental state, immune system- you name it all good. I go minimum one and try for 3 x/week but its hard with work- on vacation I sometimes go every day. Its my one thing I do just for me.
For immediately post-op I would suggest even some gentle cat/cow and trying to get into childs pose with your arms outstretched verrrry gently. I had an instructor in Miami who said don't do Plank Pose for 6 months but I had already been doing it, she said supporting your own body weight needs to be worked back into and if you were not regularly doing yoga needs to be developed.
The cancer support center has yoga so I started there first- very slowly and worked my way back. I find that because I walk so much my hips are really tight and so are the hamstrings- I am tending to take more Yin style classes for deep stretch and that is where I feel the pectoral muscles and scar tissue in my breast really start to loosen up. I find doing a regular vinyasa class is not really opening the muscles and tissues the way Yin is but still good.
Not being a Sanskrit pro- Favorite pose- bound ankle pose (reclined during restorative is yummy) least favorite pose for some odd reason- bridge pose- have always disliked it so know I need to do it.
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Indigo, yeah I know everyone says that but I am 29 years old and I just hate being coddled. I do so much better if people are like "Cowboy up!" and just make me push through things. I feel like my physical therapist is more gentle with me than I would like. Maybe it's the years of Water Polo in high school that make me desire a drill sergeant? In any case I don't have nearly enough time to do Piyo because I've spent waaaaaayyyyyy toooooo much time on my friends wedding!
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If you've had nodes removed, here's a link to some good info about exercising safely while reducing your risk of triggering lymphedema. There's general info, then a special section for yoga.
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Handout%20doc%20fo...
You may want to avoid poses like downward dog and plank (and push ups for that matter) that put a lot of stress on the arms and shoulders until you've built up quite a bit of strength - like over a period of several months. LE is no fun, and once you have it there's no cure. A good instructor can help you develop alternate poses that provide almost the same benefit as the poses that stress the arms and shoulders, but without the risk of triggering LE.
Here's a handout specifically for trainers, with a special section for yoga instructors. It lets them know you may need certain alternate moves, especially in the beginning as you build up strength. You can just print it out and give it to your yoga instructor - saves you from having an embarrassing, hurried conversation with the instructor about alternate moves you may need. http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Trainer%20doc%20fo...
I've been doing yoga since 2 weeks after my last chemo treatment almost 6 years ago. Unfortunately I was dx with LE a year or so later, so I have to be careful not to trigger a flare. But working up slowly and doing alternate moves as needed, plus wearing my compression sleeve and gauntlet, I'm able to do yoga as part of my exercise routine. I added a yin yoga class this year - that's a slow yoga where you hold poses for 5 minutes or so. I'm really enjoying it.
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love this
I was doing sun salutations, with plank at 4 weeks post surgery, with no problems. (no recon). I've done some simple home routines since, along with restorative yoga classes. I've cut back some during rads..as my armpit is sore, but I almost done and looking forward to building back my strength. Hot yoga sort of scares me! I'm afraid I'll pass out (I have low BP).
I've been wearing tank tops with built in shelf bras with soft cups and a teeny bit of fluff..makes me look ballerina flat. Or maybe intense yogini flat.
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And I just found out that I will be doing a pole dancing class in three weeks. Awesome. Guess I'll have to start working on my upper body sooner than later
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Lojo - that's great - but I do worry a bit as that's a lot of stress on your upper body so soon after surgery. Everyone, please be careful and be aware of the symptoms of LE. I thought I was home free because in the months after my surgery, I was working out, lifting weights, doing pushups, downward dog, etc. and was fine. It wasn't until fifteen months after surgery that I was dx with LE. Unfortunately after my surgery, my surgeon minimized my concerns about LE, so I took few precautions to reduce my risk during that time. I realized later that I'd inadvertently engaged in a lot of risky behavior in the months after my surgery. I don't know whether I could have avoided LE or not had I not engaged in those behaviors, but I wish I'd known what I know now as I would have been a lot more careful. We all have that "no pain, no gain" feeling about exercise. And especially after a dx of b/c, it's empowering to take back control and work out hard, pushing through soreness and fatigue. But unfortunately that's exactly the wrong thing to do if you're at risk for LE. Slow and steady is much safer.
There was a study that was just published that showed that the incidence of LE after SNB was 7% after 6 months, but rose to 11.9% at 5 years after subjective assessment. When they measured arm volume, close to 25% of women had increased arm size in the at risk side after 5 years. And that's just with SNB. The figures for ALND are even higher.
http://www.firstwordpharma.com/node/1196009#axzz2w...
From the study:
A previous prospective, multicentre study from the American Society
of Surgeons Oncology Group (ACOSOG) demonstrated an incidence of
lymph-oedema of 7% at 6 months after sentinel lymph-node dissection in
women with early-stage breast cancer. The study was undertaken to
evaluate the prognostic significance of micrometastasis. Eligible
patients included women with clinical T1-2 N0 M0 breast cancer.Following up on the longer-term incidence of lymph-oedema in the same
cohort, researchers compared 5,210 women who underwent sentinel-node
dissection with 885 who had complete axillary lymph-node dissection.The cumulative incidence of lymph-oedema after sentinel lymph-node
dissection was 3.7% at 1 year, 8.9% at 3 years, and 11.9% at 5 years by
subjective assessment (n = 3,993), stated lead author Mediget Teshome,
MD, University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, Texas,
speaking here on March 14. The incidence by objective arm measurements
(n = 3,918) was 10.5% at 1 year, 17.4% at 3 years, and 24.1% at 5 years.This is not to say you can never do yoga or other upper body exercise again - in most cases you can. Just be aware that like it or not, b/c surgery has some impact on us physically, and we need to accept that and modify our exercise progression accordingly. The good news is that most women will not get LE, but since now there's no way to know who is likely to develop it and who is not, it makes sense to take precautions if you are at risk. There's no reason you can't achieve the levels of fitness you want, but it may take just a bit longer to get there.
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NatsFan,
I know...and I was very cautious as per my surgeon's instructions in the first weeks after surgery, but both my BS and PT (lymphedema certified) told me they thought the risk was minimal and that current thinking was running the other direction -- that moderate exercise to the affected arm might actually help reduce risk of L
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2800982/
I know I'm at increased risk now from rads and my PT is getting me fitted for a sleeve for when I start back with strength training after rads are done (I haven't done any weights since surgery). I don't have a lot of the other risk factors (only SNB, I'm fairly thin, no recon). Although I will be careful and watchful, I don't want the fear of this to decrease my activities, which will be both mentally and physically beneficial.
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Oh, absolutely moderate exercise in the affected arm is beneficial - if I didn't believe that I wouldn't do yoga, pilates, weight training, running, hiking, and other exercise. If the impression I gave was that one should not exercise the at-risk arm, that's not the impression I meant to give at all! Thanks for clarifying that point. Fear of LE should never keep anyone from starting or continuing an exercise program.
You'll see in the articles that I linked to, exercise is encouraged, but there are simple precautions one can take as we ramp up our activities. Fear doesn't need to decrease our activities - I agree 100% about the mental and physical benefits to exercise and wouldn't give it up for the world. But a healthy awareness of LE is good to have. As an example, I may never be in a car accident, but I know that car accidents do occur, so buckling my seatbelt is a simple enough precaution to take when I drive. The awareness that car accidents occur doesn't keep me from driving, but it does get me to take some simple precautions. LE is like that - most b/c survivors will never get LE, but the latest research is that 12-25% of those who had SNB will get LE.
I encourage everyone to exercise - studies show over and over again that maintaining a good exercise program can help reduce the risk of b/c recurrence. I was just encouraging others not to make the same mistake I made in ramping up weight bearing exercises (like push ups, planks, and downward dog) too rapidly, especially since taking the slow but sure approach can get you to the same level of fitness eventually. I wish in those first heady days after treatment, when I was feeling soooo good getting back into exercise, that someone had given me info about LE risk reduction measures. If I'd known enough to take things more slowly, I might not have arm and truncal LE today.
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momwriter-I just got the word I can go back to yoga in 3weeks (4 weeks from my exchange). I need to go slow but will be trilled when I can stretch and move some more.
Natsman-thanks for chiming in about the LE precautions! I only had one node removed so I was at low risk. Even then I take it easy and listen to my body. It probably took me about 2-3 weeks to down dog as this put too much pressure. I also never got back to push-ups ( which I love and miss). I used to be able to do 40/minute, now not a one. Some day maybe though.
Lojo- I have extremely low bp and the hot yoga has never been an issue for me.
Wyo-"have always disliked it so now I know I need to do it". That phrase of yours caught my eye. There are certain poses I don't like. Maybe because I need them.
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Hi all,
I have taken classes in Restorative, Pure Stretch, and a class for Beginners. I loved all of them! The instructor for Restorative is also a massage therapist, and incorporates a bit of massage on your head/neck/shoulders with her corrections, and also applies a dab of calming aromatherapy oil. (aside - yes, I've heard that ER/PR+ should avoid lavender, but I don't think two drops is significant, and she also recommended mandarin as an alternative). Pure Stretch and Beginners were both more challenging/intense, but I've noticed huge improvements in my radiated chest muscles and arm. I also bought this DVD to use at home, after reading about it in BCO:
http://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Breast-Cancer-Patients-...
It's very similar to the poses we did in the Beginners class - except I did it with my two dogs watching with great interest. We all very much enjoyed shavasana.
I was just also diagnosed with severe sleep apnea :-( . I haven't slept very well in so long it's hard to remember. Getting used to the "cybergoth" APAP machine has been tough, too, but the yoga has helped me sleep better also.
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MC-Beach, 4 weeks isn't so bad-- you must be getting closer-- hope the healing is going well!
IndigoMont-I'm going to order that video-- I'd love to have something to follow on the days I don't have class.
Natsfan- I have been doing down dog and plank in my yoga classes-- so far I'm okay- I just hate the idea of giving up some poses for bc- but I don't want to risk LE either-- when did you realize you had it and what your symptoms? My BS minimized potential for it but I had ALND.
My range of motion is improving but still has further to go-- sometimes my shoulder as well as pec muscles just feel funky-but I'm hoping that changes improves the implant-- I also get muscle cramps that I think is from tamox though I've been taking extra magnesium to help with that. At least I don't get cramps in my leg at night anymore.
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Mom - as for my arm LE, I presented with cording immediately after surgery, which was minimized by my surgical team. I realized I might have it when several months after surgery and after several months of working out doing weights and yoga while taking no precautions, I noticed that my shirt sleeves seems tight on the ALND side. I also had a heavy feeling in the arm after exercise, and finally I noticed I had a definite swollen area by my elbow, under the armpit, and in the upper arm. I finally wangled an appointment out of my surgical team and was evaluated by a LE therapist. She found that the affected side was 10% larger in volume than the non-affected side, plus (not related to LE but related to surgery) I had a shoulder impingement. She did Complete Decongestive Therapy with me (sessions 5x a week for the first week, then 3x a week for the next 4 weeks, then weekly for a few weeks after that), showed my how to wrap, got me fitted for a compression sleeve and gauntlet, and started teaching me LE self-management. She also started me on a gentle exercise program that gradually increased my strength, and also worked on the shoulder impingement.
Indigo - LOL on the dogs and yoga. When I do a yoga session at home, the min pin thinks shavasana is snuggle time just for him.
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Hi all,
Quick question. Do you all count yoga as your exercise if you're looking to achieve a certain amount of exercise each week? Like if you need 150 min of moderate exercise, does yoga count in that total? I'm talking about regular yoga- not hot yoga- that has down dogs and dolphins but also child poses etc. Just trying to do the right thing for recurrence prevention. Thanks!
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Momwriter:
I've tried a few yoga classes and there's a wide range in how much exercise you get vs. how much yoga philosophy. I tried a "gentle yoga" class for cancer patients that was gentle to the point of putting me to sleep, and others that had me sweating, even though I modify the downward dogs and planks. I found a general definition of "moderate exercise" in terms of heart rate that might be useful if you have a way of measuring your pulse. I have a watch that does the job, but there are a fair number of gadgets that will measure heart rate.
http://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/everyone/measu...
For moderate-intensity physical activity, a person's target heart rate should be 50 to 70% of his or her maximum heart rate. This maximum rate is based on the person's age. An estimate of a person's maximum age-related heart rate can be obtained by subtracting the person's age from 220. For example, for a 50-year-old person, the estimated maximum age-related heart rate would be calculated as 220 - 50 years = 170 beats per minute (bpm). The 50% and 70% levels would be:
- 50% level: 170 x 0.50 = 85 bpm, and
- 70% level: 170 x 0.70 = 119 bpm
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I am one taxol treatment away from finishing chemo and I have gained alot of weight due to the Decadron. My middle is huge and my whole body is feeling very different so I am trying yoga classes online but my chest is sensitive with the new implants put in the month of April. I am thinking of concentrating on an exercise bike until I get a little stronger.
Dx: 1/17, Stage 1A, .5cm, Grade 1, ER+, PR+, HER2+
Surgery: 2/16/2017 Right mastectomy, Right axillary node removal, left prophylatic mastectomy, both sides reconstruction with tissue expanders
Surgery: 4/26/2017 Tissue expanders removed and anatomical implants replaced under pectoral muscle
Chemotherapy: 6/15/2017 12 sessions weekly taxol/herceptin followed by 13 sessions monthly Herceptin
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New to posting on this board...
I do count yoga as exercise as the classes I take leave me hot and sweaty and it isn't hot yoga but a studio that has a yoga/pilates perspective...so lots of transitions from down dog to plank and back.
I will have my exchange in 2.5 weeks and was wondering from the yoga group...how long were you on yoga restriction after your exchange...a month? two? longer?
Thanks, TT
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TrmTab:
I'm curious about this since my Exchange is 9/7. I'm doing yoga but trying to limit dogward dog and plank since BMX, though I do them. I just don't hold as long.
Cheers to Yoga!!!!!
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I joined this studio 6 months after the MX, needed to try something different than my old gym that would provide "exercise", but also centering, core, etc. This has been my first yoga experience, but I have been able to lose 30 lbs since Jan 1st and really like the comaraderie of the diverse folks who practice...college students to me at 56 to seniors in their 80's! I realize I would need to cut back to nothing for a month, then maybe the gentle classes and hopefully at 3 months a full vinyasa class...really hope that is possible. I will up my walking in the weeks/months I can't go to the gym, don't want to gain weight in the "off season."
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My plan is similar (though I have not gotten the restrictions list from my PS yet) -- but plan to walk/walk/walk at first after Exchange so I don't lost momentum, then move into yoga and weights (light) when I can. I'm not hardcore on any of this but have been doing it well enough since BMX and I enjoy. I did yoga before BMX but never religiously. It's terribly good for your body and flexibility, calm, etc.
I wonder if I'll have more ROM with implants. It's not bad and I have done some PT but I still have tightness along incision lines, etc. Alloderm issue maybe. I can almost ignore it but hope this loosens up.
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Hello fellow yogis, I'm almost 8 weeks post mastectomy (right side, no reconstruction). I took one restorative yoga class last week and one this morning. Wonderful to be back!
My question is how will I know when I'm ready to do a plank again? I'm also doing PT massage and the recommended range of motion exercises. I had a sentinel node biopsy with 3 nodes removed.
Thanks and best wishes to all
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Hi Marilyn,congrats on getting back to yoga after 8 weeks. As I recall, that was about the time I was allowed to return as well. Mainly consider how you feel in a plank pose to determine if you should be there. I still come onto my knees before going up into a cobra during sun salutations. My pectoral muscle is still bothered and sore. I did have recon so I'm in a different place.
If you had lymph nodes removed take care with the type of yoga you practice- restorative sounds great. Hot yoga might be too much adding risk for lymphedema. There's a great thread I'll try to get to that discusses lymphedema and exercise.
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