Excercise - is it possible for cancer to spread from exercise?

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LeesaD
LeesaD Member Posts: 383
edited June 2017 in Working on Your Fitness
Getting ready to get back to exercise but all of a sudden got very paranoid. I was very active prior to dx. My biopsy ultrasound originally thought tumor was 6 - 8 mm. MRI showed no lymph node involvement. I continued to excercise vigorously up until my BMX on March 27. Surprise, my tumor was 3 cms and sentinal node biopsy showed 2 of 4 nodes with micromestasis. I was concerned about further lymph node involvement and my BS agreed to go back in and do ALND. Surprise again I had additional 2 of 14 fully positive axillary nodes. So my question. I want to get back to excercise and hopefully eventually to level I was before. Is it possible that exercise and getting blood flow/ lymph system working again as exercise does can spread the cancer? If the lymph gets moving is it possible that any cells can be spread? I've tried researching but I just have found info on just overall Heath benefits of exercise which I get but I'm concerned that I might spread any leftover cells where I don't want them to go. I'm getting ready for my second TC treatment day after tmrw and then radiation starting end of July when done with chemo. Any insights would be very welcome. Thank You!
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  • littleblueflowers
    littleblueflowers Member Posts: 2,000
    edited May 2017

    That's not a bad question, but studies have shown that to exercise during chemo makes the chemo work better. Your lymph is always circulating anyway, weather you exercise or not. Exercise is one of the most potent weapons against cancer and since it helps treatment work better, Id say go get it!

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  • ingersollnic
    ingersollnic Member Posts: 46
    edited June 2017

    The tumours are often bigger than they first see (mine was 2.3cm and turned out to be 5cm) as imaging is not perfect. Rest assured though that exercise does not spread the cancer. Studies show that it not only makes chemo more effective, but that exercising for 30mins a day vigorously, reduces recurrence as much as any drug. My specialist told me if they could bottle exercise and make money selling it, they would be rich as it is the most effective tool to decrease recurrence. The nurses study (very large well regarded study) and others all indicate its effectiveness, see below

    Here is a link

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindth...


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  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 2,323
    edited June 2017

    Hi everyone...very interesting study. Here's my question though. Considering exercise is so important in reducing recurrence rates why on earth would they recommend drugs that make both exercise and weight loss so difficult for most?!

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  • ElaineTherese
    ElaineTherese Member Posts: 3,328
    edited June 2017

    dtad,

    I understand your concerns and critique of hormonal therapy; you have made your position abundantly clear in a number of threads. However, aromasin has not made exercise more difficult for me and many other women. You frequently end your posts wishing others well, whatever choices they make. I return the sentiment, but hope that you really do respect the choices of other women to do hormonal therapy.

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  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited June 2017

    Despite a tremendous amount of exercise and a reasonable diet, I have gained 20# from Tamoxifen this year and echo dtad's experience. I find myself wondering, as I outgrow all of my clothing, whether the weight gain undoes the benefits of Tamoxifen and exercise.

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  • LeesaD
    LeesaD Member Posts: 383
    edited June 2017
    Thank You all for the responses!

    Ingersollni- thank you so much for that link! I just read through it and then some of the other links connected through. Very interesting. I was extremely active prior to dx and I say sometimes ' a lot of good that did me as I got breast cancer anyway'. even though I thought I was doing everything right. Was just concerned that perhaps something I did caused the lymph node involvement. I spoke to my oncologist actually today and he said exercise and lymph spread has never really been looked at as far as he knows but reiterated like the study how exercise is encouraged and has been shown to decrease chances of recurrence so do what I feel up to as I move along. I just finished second round of TC and feel like I am ready. Have five weeks of radiation planned for after chemo ends July 11 and then whatever hormone treatment I will be on which I guess seems to cause some issues for some. Maybe if I get ahead of the acitivity now it will help with radiation and the hormone therapies. Thanks again to all who responded! It is so appreciated!
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  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited June 2017

    Your positive nodes are gone. Chemo is mopping up whatever (hypothetical) cells remain after your breasts were removed, to keep them from circulating. This may sound depressing, but metastasis sometimes occurs before a tumor is diagnosed (years or decades before) and these cells remain dormant until some as-yet-unknown genetic process switches on their “get up & grow” genes. If they are dormant, chemo is unlikely to kill them, as chemo kills rapidly-dividing cells (healthy as well as cancerous). Usually, they will remain dormant, no matter what you do or don’t do. If they awaken, it won’t be because you caused cancer cells to enter the lymph system and spread.

    Surprised that with an Oncotype of 3 you were given chemo—a score that low would indicate that the cells found in your nodes (even 4 nodes) were of the ER+/HER2- slow-growing variety and thus less likely to be vulnerable to chemo. Are you getting chemo because you are young? Regardless of what kind of adjuvant treatment you get, exercise is always beneficial except for the most weakened, bedridden invalid.

    It would be good to remember what the #1 killer of breast cancer patients (even many of those with Stage IV) is: cardiovascular disease. (It is also the #1 killer of women and men without cancer). Anything you can do to improve your cardiovascular risk increases your overall survival.

    dtad, as someone who hates exercise and gets weight gain, joint pain & fatigue from letrozole, I understand all too well the irony of prescribing a drug that impairs our ability to perform the best activity to lessen the odds of both recurrence and cardiovascular disease, “Impairs,” and "makes more difficult," but doesn’t ”prevent” exercise. We need to do what we can, which admittedly may be less than what others not on antihormonals can. But it’s something.

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  • LeesaD
    LeesaD Member Posts: 383
    edited June 2017

    ChiSandy- thank you so much for your response and explanations. When you put it the way you did it makes me actually feel better. There is only so much in my control and I have to control what I can and my fitness was a huge part of my identity prior to my dx.'ve felt like I've lost a lot of who I was prior and I'm ready to take it back.

    As far as my Oncotype being a 3 and getting chemo. My MO ordered the Oncotype after my BMX and sentinal nodes showing 2 of 4 with micromestasis. While waiting for the Oncotype results I had pushed for the ALND. Had the second surgery and surprise I had 2 /14 additional positive nodes. After getting these results and still prior to Oncotype results my oncologist said chemo would be AC+T 8 rounds. Had port placement and then my Oncotype comes back a 3. So that was another surprise but only good one I've had. My MO explained the Oncotype is based on the 1-3 nodes and I have that one extra node so he has to recommend chemo but now he's changing the regime. He changed it to TC four rounds instead of the 8 rounds AC-T. He said the potential long term heart risk from the A drug now would outweigh any benefit I would get from it. So it's a shortened regime less one drug. I was fine with it. He said in maybe 5 years or so the studies will be more conclusive about not doing chemo on patients with 4 nodes and very low Oncotype but as of now it's on 1-3 and he's following standard. I know the hormone treatment is what my cells will

    respond to best and looking forward to getting that started after chemo. I'm half way done chemo and only two treatments left.

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  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited June 2017

    Lessa - be sure your doc approves the exercise. Unless you're just going to walk, start slow & get his OK before moving ahead.

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  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited June 2017

    Good on your doc for discontinuing the Adriamycin (some here call it the Red Devil): it is the most cardiotoxic of chemo drugs. But I would respectfully suggest getting a second opinion as to pressing onward with ANY more chemo treatments, since an OncotypeDX of 3 indicates that there are exceedingly few if any tumor cells that divide rapidly enough for the chemo drugs to kill—and that the side effects would be more harmful than any theoretical benefit. Cardiotoxicity is only one of the serious side effects of chemotherapy: immunosuppression, hearing loss, and neuropathy are also life-altering and perhaps life-threatening, and should be acceptable risks ONLY if the benefits clearly outweigh them!!!!

    If he unsure of the aggressiveness of the tumor cells found in that fourth node, it too should be tested before administering any more harmful meds that may turn out to be unnecessary. The first thing medical students are taught is primum non nocere—“first, do no harm.” I would be surprised if the majority of doctors believe that there is greater harm in suspending chemo for a couple of weeks (which is how long ODX takes) before confirming it’s necessary & beneficial than there is in “continue shooting and ask questions later."

    We have a few patients here who started on chemo but whose doctors discontinued it when their OncotypeDX scores came back in the low-risk category. (By then, they had already lost their hair). I am not saying to stop chemo, but to consult with other MOs as to whether and why continuing it at all is appropriate—rather than going straight to long-term antihormonal drug therapy (perhaps after radiation to the remaining nodes). Many (but not most) oncologists have to purchase their chemo drugs and sell them back to patients, and this can create an incentive to overprescribe.

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  • LeesaD
    LeesaD Member Posts: 383
    edited June 2017

    Thanks ChiSandy! I'll definitely talk to my oncologist. He did say that he has consulted with the other MO's at the weekly tumor boards about my treatment. Hoping it was a collective decision. I'm at a major NY cancer center so the drug purchasing in advance is not something that I think or hope would be a factor. This site is invaluable for information from other members. There are so many things I never would have even though of to ask about or look into if not for the experience of others on here. Thank You again!!

    Minus two- thank you! I will discuss with my doctor for sure.

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