Lymph node involvement and Oncotype dx, Chemo
I am new to this board and grateful for the forum! I had my mastectomy on April 21, 2017 in Germany. There had been no anticipated lymph node involvement based on my low proliferation score (5%). In addition the lymph nodes looked good on the ultrasounds and MRI. After surgery and upon getting my pathology results, I was shocked to learn that 4/17 lymph nodes were positive. Prior to receiving this information I'd been told that my tumor would be sent away for the Oncotype dx Test to determine my individualized risk of recurrence. However the team's guideline is that when more than 3 lymph nodes are involved they don't t do the test. Instead they are recommending chemotherapy (EC 4 cycles at 2 week intervals followed by 12 cycles of Taxol at weekly intervals) as well as radiation followed by Tamoxifen. The size of the tumor, lymph node involvement and my age (46) factored into this recommendation. They want to reduce my risk of a distant recurrence, However there is the discrepancy of the proliferation score of 5%, which indicates my cancer is not aggressive. I believe this also created some debate within the board. I would like to know if anyone has heard of the test being used when 4/more lymph nodes are involved in women who have not gone through menopause. Also what have been other members' treatment recommendations when there has been lymph node involvement. Is this dose dense treatment fairly standard in this situation. I am torn - I am fearful of the impact of Chemotherapy on my health but as a mother (my youngest daughter just turned 11) I would not be able to forgive myself if there was a recurrence and I hadn't used every means at my disposal to prevent it.
Comments
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Hi Hope, in many regards my situation was similar to yours when I was diagnosed four years ago while still pre-menopausal. Tiny tumor and no indication of anything in lymph nodes on scans. My post-surgery results are in my profile below. Chemo was a given.
Positive nodes mean the disease has advanced locally and one needs rather aggressive treatment, especially at a younger age.
All the best to you.
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Hope,
So sorry you find yourself here but the boards are great for support and to learn what others have done. There is, however, no better advice then that of your doctors. If it is possible to get a 2nd opinion in Germany, I would highly recommend getting one. I had a small tumor, normal axillary sonogram and MRI and no anticipated nodes too. But I ended up with 2 positive nodes. In both the cancer had spread outside the capsule of the node. They didn't do a proliferation score on my tumor but my oncotype was a low 12.
I had dose dense AC and Taxol which is similar to what your MO is recommended. I followed that with radiation and an oophorectomy so that I could take an AI rather then Tamoxifen since it has been shown superior in ILC in a small clinical trial.
http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/jco.2015.60.8133
There have been studies that show that ILC is not as responsive to chemotherapy as IDC. But there are many women who have been treated with chemo prior to surgery and had a positive response. If you research and read enough, you will find studies that support almost every choice. What's most important is that you a comfortable with your treatment plan and that you are able to move forward without looking back. We each make the best decisions we can with the information available at the time and the decision time is the hardest time!
I wish you peace with your decisions.
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My situation is not comparable to yours but I wanted to suggest that you look into genetic counseling at some point to see if any hereditary mutation might be present. When diagnosis is prior to menopause, whatever the known family history contains, this possibility would be good to investigate for the sake of future generations. It can also influence treatment in terms of accepting radiation or not.
You sound very logical and will do well by continuing to ask questions and seek information. I agree with the two gals above regarding chemo and decision making.
Whether Hope is your real name or the attitude of choice for the current circumstances, hang on to it!
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Thanks Toomuch for your thoughtful response! Would you mind sharing with me how you tolerated the chemo as it looks like the regimen is close to what I'll be getting? I am trying to anticipate in advance how much help/support I'll be needing as I am not living close to family/old friends. Despite this I have received overwhelming support from my current community and I am deeply thankful!
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Thanks Muska; I really appreciate your response! It looks like your chemo regimen was the same as what is being recommended for me. Would you mind letting me know how you tolerated it and if you had any long-term side effects?
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Thanks Vlnrp! Hope is my attitude of choice.....at least on the good days:)!
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Hope...your diagnosis and story was very similar to mine. I too had the oncotype test before surgery and had a low score of 8%...then postive nodes found on surgery..and an extra tumour so i had one at 9cm and another at 1.6cm in one breast and multi focal LCIS in the 'good' breast. This all from a slow growing cancer. ..
I was 46 and premenopausal...with a 12yo daughter to think of. This meant that i was willing to do whatever was necessary to increase my chances. I did 6 x 3 week cycles of FEC and taxotere. Radiation also after and have done 6 years of femara with 4 more years at least.
Now 6 years later i am very healthy and have the scans to prove it! I just earned my PADI scuba licence ..in 16 degree sea water and will welcome my 6th grandson next month. No long term side effects from chemo..though i did fast through treatment to increase effectiveness and decrease side effects. No neuropathy..and my hair grew back!..There are threads in the forums on fasting and i know that it helped in my treatment.
The message is that you can do what is right for you...there are complementary ways to help you get through treatment so ask your doctors and do your research and listen to your inner instincts...ILC is not typical in all cases.
(((HUGS))) Robyn
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Robyn thanks for your encouraging reply; it's inspires me to learn that you are healthy and living your life to its fullest! I hadn't heard of fasting to alleviate the side effects of chemo...will definitely explore it.
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Ha! I forgot about fasting and chemo SE relief.There seems to be some credible evidence supporting the fact that fasting makes chemo work more effectively--you are starving all cells in your body, including the bad ones (if any) and so when cells are starving, they "eat" the chemo more strongly. That's a layperson's summary; here's an article. I did fast before each infusion--but not completely; I fasted on 500 calories 24 hours before each tx. and during infusion, since the drugs and steroids made me sick anyway.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting...
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Hope - I tolerated chemo pretty well. The first round was the hardest for me and that was because I had pretty bad bone pain after the Neulasta injection. After that I took Claritin before I got it and the pain was never as bad. I'm not sure if it was the Claritin or my body responding differently but I never got Neulasta without the Claritin again!
I do have some permanent neuropathy in my big toes. It's something that I've gotten used to but after I developed it while getting Taxol, I read that if you take Vitamin B6 100mg twice daily during chemo it can decrease the risk of neuropathy. I think that recently there have been some herbal remedies recommended. Speak to your oncologist to see if he recommends any complementary medications to try to limit risk of neuropathy.
With regard to help during chemo, my son was 14 when I was diagnosed. I mostly needed help getting him where he needed to be on chemo and Neulasta days. I always appreciated it when a friend dropped off dinner on those days too. Otherwise, I was really able to do most things most of the time. I think that exercising regularly really helped my energy level while I was getting chemo. My son was starting high school and my daughter left for college 8 days after I started chemo. Those were two big transitions for him so, I tried really hard to keep everything else as normal as possible.
I was at my healthiest for the first 4 years after I completed treatment. I kept off the weight I had lost and exercised regularly, which is something that I started to do during chemo! Sadly, I've fallen off the wagon and working more and exercising less. I really need to get back to it!
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Regarding the B6, my MO told me there is some research to show that it can prevent the chemo from being as effective, and since I didn't normally take it anyway, I didn't argue. I am taking Taxotere rather than Taxol, so that may make a difference.
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Hi,
I have an hypoechoic node in my neck after going through chemo and radiation. Anyone else going through the same diagnosis? It maybe or another type of cancer but my thyroid looks fine.
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