New research on progesterone

genesis10
genesis10 Member Posts: 7
edited May 2017 in Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results

Has anyone read this? I have now started on natural compounded progesterone cream as my doctor says it protects breasts from cancer and because I am now 5 year cancer free had ovaries removed was double hormone positive 99%estrogen; 70% progesterone. Opted not to take aromatase inhibitors. Even though my estrogen levels are now extremely low progesterone is zero indicating estrogen dominance so balance needed.

Would appreciate thoughts on this article. Please note natural progesterone is not progestin found in HRT. Progestin is chemical derivative and found to contribute to bc. Whereas natural progesterone found yo be protective.

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/07/08...

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  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited March 2017

    I'm an n=1 experiment. I used over the counter progesterone cream when I started going through perimenopause in my 40s. I ended getting dx with pre-diabetes and a few years later, breast cancer. The cream may have done nothing to contribute to any of it but when I stopped the cream, my fasting glucose improved. No way to know about the breast cancer dx.

    Interesting article.

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  • genesis10
    genesis10 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2017

    Hi Wallycat. Thanks for your response. What does n=1 experiment mean?

    Hard to know what to think as the researchers said double positive breast cancer diagnosis have greater chance of survival due to natural progesterone slowing down cancer. And talk now of adding to breast cancer treatment in the future.

    All the compounding chemists I have spoken to say natural progesterone protects breasts and when I asked my doctor if there was any chance it could do harm it was an emphatic "NO".

    Before I got breast cancer I was firstly put on combined HRT with progestin (its not progesterone). I stopped after a few years and went on estrogen pessaries. When diagnosed with BC I had been told I would have been estrogen dominant at the time.

    Hard to understand possible link with diabetes as we have plenty of natural progesterone in our system until we reach perimenopause when it drops dramatically.

    I might have to go back to my doctor and perhaps have another talk.

    Thanks

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  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited March 2017

    n=1 means a sample size of 1, me.

    I agree that it is all difficult to understand and know how it interrelates. If genetics plays a role? or how much progesterone we start with, or estrogen. I was never on HRT. I did take birth control pills in my 20s-30s, stopped those in my mid 30s.

    I know blood pressure meds can contribute to diabetes; I've never been on those and know people who have been on them for decades without getting diabetes even though one of the listed warnings states it can happen. People are all very different.

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  • sbelizabeth
    sbelizabeth Member Posts: 2,889
    edited March 2017

    Our bodies are so complex. We're learning more and more all the time, of course, but what we DON'T know is still an ocean.

    When I was in my 20's, HRT was touted as the fountain of youth. Skin, hair, heart, brain, joints, bones...it's all younger, better, stronger, prettier with extra estrogen. Then the nurse's study came out and estrogen was the bad guy.

    I took a very low dose of HRT at menopause because I COULD NOT SLEEP. I've had mild insomnia most of my life, but this was horrific. A little patch with estrogen and progesterone that I stuck to my abdomen, and suddenly I could sleep again. I'm completely convinced that the patch lead to my breast cancer, because 18 months later I had Stage III IDC, 99% estrogen receptor positive. It would have been cheaper and healthier to just get hooked on sleeping pills and get unhooked when the effects of menopause ended.

    Statins were the new prevent-everything drugs. Now we know they can hike up blood sugar and lead to diabetes in post-menopausal women.

    I do know this: "natural" or "bio-identical" or "compounded" hormones are still hormones, and as such, will have hormone-like effects (including "feeding" hormone-receptor positive cancers). I would be skeptical about an article that proposed "natural" progesterone is safe for progesterone-receptor positive breast cancer survivors, unless it's peer-reviewed research and published in a recognized medical/scientific journal.

    Just my $0.02 worth.

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  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited March 2017

    My cancer was both 100% ER+ and PR+. I also used an OTC natural progesterone cream for several years before the diagnosis. I can't say it was a contributor but it certainly didn't protect me. I don't mess with hormones of any kind due to the uncertainty, but I wish there was a more definitive answer.

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  • JuniperCat
    JuniperCat Member Posts: 658
    edited March 2017

    I'm ER+ and PR- and am now wondering if using a natural progesterone cream would actually be beneficial....?

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  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited March 2017

    Progesterone’s role in double-hormone+ bc has recently been studied as helping prevent ER+ tumors from effectively processing estrogen. But if your tumor is PR-, its lack of progesterone receptors means your tumor can’t access progesterone, and therefore can’t harness pro.’s ability to keep ER+ cell growth at bay. Still waiting to hear the official line.

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  • JuniperCat
    JuniperCat Member Posts: 658
    edited March 2017

    ChiSandy, thank you for clarifying that. It seems as though not too much is known about progesterone; my MO said that it is good that my bc is ER+ but when I asked him about being PR- he simply said "don't worry about that." I didn't pursue it with him.


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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2017

    Odd, I have a memory of a few years ago. Husband and I were staying at a resort and wound up talking to a doctor (onc./gyno? Can't remember) from Germany. He told me that the first thing he would do with me, if he were treating me, would be to put me on progesterone since I was about 1000% ER/PR positive. At the time I thought he was crazy. But this story leads me to believe he "might" have been on something.

    When I was in my 20s and 30s, my gynocologist would give me a progesterone injection when my period was so late to make it start (and it was, often--I was a very erratic menstruator).

    Claire in AZ

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  • Falconer
    Falconer Member Posts: 1,192
    edited April 2017
    Thank you, genesis, for starting this thread. Is the progesterone helpful for menopausal symptoms besides reducing bc risk of recurrence?
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  • katcar0001
    katcar0001 Member Posts: 621
    edited April 2017

    I was on bioidentical progesterone for 2 years prior to my diagnosis and less than one year of low dose estrogen. My doctors all told me that HRT contributed to my breast cancer, and it was the best thing I could do for myself to get off it.

    And I took to heart this quote by Dr. Lisa Esserman of UCSF: I told her I am taking bio-identical progesterone as part of my natural risk reduction plan. Her response: "The one thing you should NOT take is progesterone. It's like putting gasoline on a fire. That's the one thing you should not be doing! I am adamant about that." She said, "Nobody should be telling you to put something in your body that is mytogenic and actually is cancer causing. And bio-identicals — progesterone is progesterone — it's the one thing you want to minimize."

    That said, I really miss progesterone for helping with my sleep apnea, insomnia and joint pain, but I would not risk bc again :-(.

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  • BarredOwl
    BarredOwl Member Posts: 2,433
    edited April 2017

    Re: http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/07/08/solving-a-breast-cancer-mystery-why-do-double-positive-women-do-better/

    There is a link to the underlying research publication at the very bottom:

    Mohammed (2016): http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7560/full/nature14583.html

    Free PDF available at ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279991783_Corrigendum_Progesterone_receptor_modulates_ERa_action_in_breast_cancer

    The work pertains to certain in vitro studies of cultured cell lines (MCF-7 and T-47D), in vitro studies of breast tumor cells obtained from 14 independent primary tumors, and in vivo animal studies in a mouse "xenograft" model (an MCF-7-derived cell line injected into mice). These are "preclinical" studies and should be considered as "hypothesis generating." As noted in the CancerResearchUK blog feature:

    "This potential new dual therapy [Tamoxifen plus progesterone] is still a way off – there's a lot of clinical research ahead before we know for sure that giving progesterone to women with 'double-positive' breast cancer will definitely help them."

    Or hurt them.

    Another feature regarding the same study notes:

    http://www.cancernetwork.com/breast-cancer/uncovering-role-progesterone-treatment-breast-cancer

    ""[This study] beautifully elucidates a previously unknown function for the PR in modulating the behavior of the ER in breast cancer," said Bromberg. . .

    . . . All of the experiments in mouse and human models required the addition of estrogen, as well as tamoxifen and progesterone, which is not clinically relevant. Additionally, the type of progesterone used in the study is not one used in clinical practice."

    It appears that the cell lines and primary tumor cells were grown in estrogen-supplemented media, and were exposed to estrogen and "progesterone". In the animal studies, "Where appropriate, 90 day slow-releasing 17b-oestradiol (0.72 mg per pellet) and/or progesterone (10 mg per pellet) hormone pellets (Innovative Research of America) were implanted sub-cutaneously in recipient mice."

    In my layperson view, this early stage preclinical work does not speak to the safety or efficacy of topical progesterone used alone as a single-agent or in combination with tamoxifen in breast cancer survivors with ER+PR+ disease.

    BarredOwl

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  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited April 2017

    Thank you, BarredOwl, for the “official line” as it currently stands.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2017

    Some of the things that I took from that study, which I have also been researching because "I NEED ME SOME PROGESTERONE," was the fact that it was lab tests only, on mice only, and used real progesterone--not the bioidentical stuff that comes in creams. But I also noticed it said that estrogen does not act the same on cancer cells as it does when progesterone is present. I felt there was a lot of really positive, forward-looking hope in that trial and I am excited to see further research because, I'm just going to say it, I've just started taking progesterone cream because I am willing to do ANYTHING to see if it will help my debilitating migraines. They are like ultra-mini strokes. Not just a 3 day severe headache, but visual auras, numb tongue/mouth, and worst - aphasia or dysphasia. I can pronounce a word that I am reading, but I don't know what it means. I can't grasp what a sentence means. I didn't recognize my own daughter's name once when I read it. I was at a play and suddenly didn't know what "Gaston" meant (my nephew was playing the role, and the name was on his house). I can't speak because I make no sense and sound drunk. I can't work, but I have no money. Yep--I will definitely try anything because these spells are frequent and neurologists (et al) have found nothing they can do to help it. So I came here to see what others think about progesterone. I have a variant on the "Warrior Gene" that says I might be one who should take it, as it would help with serotonin, epinephrine, dopamine, etc. I'm having big issues in those areas, and ALL these symptoms (among others) started after taking 5 years of Tamoxifen/Aromasin, so I'm willing to take the risk.


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  • Jagger2015
    Jagger2015 Member Posts: 14
    edited May 2017

    Hi Everyone...this is my first post, however I have been reading hundreds of posts since my diagnosis Dec 13, 2016. It's been so helpful to read what others have gone and are going through. I have almost completed 8 rounds of Chemo ( AC+ Taxol) ..seeing the surgeon May 8 to determine if a lumpectomy can still be done. My original 5cm + tumor has shrunk down to almost nothing from doing neoadjuvant chemo so am hoping the surgery will be minimal but nothing is certain...tumor is close to the nipple.

    I have a 10 year history of using bioidental hormones. First progesterone in my 40's then progesterone, estrogen, testosterone. I felt amazing on the hormones until about 18 months ago when I stopped taking them ....I was ok for a while but after a year, I felt out of sorts health wise and estrogen dominant so I booked an appointment with an anti aging hormone specialist to do hormone levels etc...then I found my lump. It's been a life altering experience since then. I have both ER+ve and PR +ve receptors and the HER2 is still inconclusive. My oncologist nor my doctor have said it's because I was taking BHRT but I'm unsure. My mammogram 2 years previous to my diagnosis was clear so it seems the tumor grew while I was off hormones. ( shrug) Anyway it's something I will always wonder about and never know the answer.

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  • Jagger2015
    Jagger2015 Member Posts: 14
    edited May 2017

    Progesterone was the only treatment that stopped a lifetime of migraine headaches for me. It helped with sleeping, kept me incredibly calm and relaxed...and I thought it would help prevent breast cancer down the road. Was wrong about that one 😕 I am so afraid of the migraines returning once I start aromatase inhibitors. I am interested in reading the new research on progesterone

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