Horrible Lose Lose

You and your wife are obviously having some tough times. Have you considered joint counselling? I hope you both make it through to a good plave

Agree with Goldie that counseling together is a great idea if you have not already done it, especially with a therapist who deals with people who had/have cancer.

Two years out is not that long. Many people with cancer are in active treatment for a year or more (not sure what your wife's treatment consisted of) and it is not unusual for sex to drop off a good bit or completely during active treatment and for quite a while after. If your marriage was a good one up until this point, i doubt that your wife would be open to chucking it to be "free of negativity". If she's like many cancer patients, her whole world got rearranged with this diagnosis and it is never going to be exactly the same. Having her spouse leave is probably not going to be seen as an improvement through her eyes even if things are rocky now.

What if it happened to you? Say that out of the blue one day you have a bad test result. It's prostate cancer, and the recommended treatment is removal of the prostate, radiation and anti-hormonals. After the surgery, you feel very rough. Sex with your spouse falls not just to the bottom of the list, but launches right out into outer space. In the months that it takes you to grapple with everything (find a surgeon; find an oncologist; deal with work and insurance; heal from the surgical assault on your body; deal with the grief of your spouse and others in your life, think about what happens when we die late at night while everyone else is asleep) your emotions ping pong all over the place as an after effect of the physical things happening to you (drugs, surgery, radiation). To top it off, with cancer it's never actually over; there are years and years of rechecks and scans to get through. The worry about your kids (if you have them) is another tremendous stressor--how will they do if I am not there? And your pride is hurt; your body has betrayed you, and your self perception as an independent, self-reliant person is shattered. You are physically unable to have sex initially and far too preoccupied with all of your new concerns to really want it. You still love your wife, but resent her; she just does not get what it is like to have suffered through this diagnosis and everything that came after. You are sometimes mean spirited and short tempered; jealous even of her good health and angered that something essential to your identity and your marriage --your manhood--has been stripped from you.

In that scenario, would you honestly want your wife to divorce you, or would you want her to understand the pain of all this, the wounded pride, and not to give up on you? You are going through the "worse" part in those "for better or for worse" vows--this is what it means. Your wife owes you (and herself) a sincere effort to understand herself and make things between you better if possible. But please try and put yourself in her shoes. In my opinion, it is way too early to be putting separation or divorce on the table.

Thank you Falconer. I also want to say that I don't want this post to be a man vs. woman thing. I have always tried to avoid that in my own life. I have been in a relationship or two where I was the more sexual partner, so I know where the original poster is coming from. I faced the low sex/no sex issue in the last decade or so of my own marriage. As it wound up, my ex would not commit to treatment despite some serious, relatively late in life mental health issues. Because we had built a life together and had a child together, I would have dealt with the sexual drought indefinitely if other things were good (parenting, work life, our own personal relationship.) But those things were not there anymore, and he would not consent to treatment. So I let it go. Not specifically due to sex, because although very important, it was not the most important thing. During the height of my frustration, I would imagine a scenario as I laid out above. Would I leave him if the sex had stopped due to cancer or some other illness? No; I would not leave for that, and I equated mental health challenges to any other physical illness. I left because all of the other stuff that would have kept me there fell away, and there was no way to legally force treatment since he was not a physical threat to me or others. There was nowhere to go from that point and I honestly felt that I had done everything I could to keep things going emotionally, financially etc. So I guess what I am saying is that sex is undeniably important, but marriage and partnership is made up of so much more. If you get totally shut down by your partner, you may have no choice but to end things. If you have a good partnership, don't let that go because physical intimacy is an issue without a very good try for help via docs/therapy. I have no idea if the issues the OP describes are due to chemo/antihormonals/PTSD/age, any one of which can profoundly affect physical intimacy. I just hope he gives therapy with a cancer savvy therapist a shot before calling it a day.

I am very sad and scared about this post. Now I am just wishing my BF won't give up on me no matter how much difficulties we will go through.

Sometimes it's at these times when the relationship is truly tested. You can't say OP has no right to how he feels because, well, yes he does. And so does his spouse. While we all like to see couples work it out sometimes despite all the efforts it is better to split. Not at all suggesting this as the solution here. Just we can't judge someone else's feelings/relationship because we are not in it. We can never know how a relationship is anything near like the parties involved no matter how much they may write about it. That's where therapy comes in where you go for many sessions, try different tactics to see if it's workable or not. If it's not, then it's not healthy for either party to remain in it.

I'm sorry for this difficulty in your marriage. I can read the pain in your honest tone.

To be sure I understand, your wife's treatment was a double mx, no chemo, no rads? Is she on hormone therapy like Tamoxifen or an AI? Did she have reconstruction?

I ask because I'm trying to understand what exactly is causing her drive to be non-existent:

feeling insecure with how her reconstruction looks?

hormonal changes?

battling fears of recurrence?

Feel free to answer to the extent you're able.

Got it.

Her body has obviously been through so much, and it's understandable that she doesn't feel like herself. It's traumatic to have that much work done and then still feel bad about how you look.

Having said that, I do think it's important for her to make an effort to address your needs as well. You're her partner and your needs are legitimate. She may not be functioning on all cylinders, but at some point she ought to work to enter your world.

The ideal situation would be for both of you to seek counseling together to find out how to respond to one another's struggles. I really hope she's willing and that you stay patient and loving.

adrift, in addition to the other great feedback you've gotten, it might help to know that it is possible that both the exemestane (aromasin) itself and some anti-depression drugs can cause loss of libido. Fair amount of information on that out there that you could research, I think, and some threads on this site. I think it is worth exploring the possibility that the AI side effects are indeed more than minimal. Many docs will look at switching from one AI to another as not all patients experience the same side effects with some of the medications as with others. In my case, when I experienced depression (among other SEs) on one, doc switched me to another (which isn't perfect, but which doesn't cause the depression that was so difficult for me). All this said, I do agree that you should start with an honest conversation with your wife.

Honest... I hope you are reading everyone's very valuable posts and taking bits and pieces from everyone. I think just coming here is great. It shows you are trying to get assistance. I'm not sure if you could do this. Maybe have her read your stuff. When we are not looking or concerned the person we are writing about will read it,we are very very honest. Perhaps that could be beneficial. A few weeks ago I did this. My hubby really had no idea what I was suffering with. Or how he could help me. He does have a gaming addiction,but it's much deeper then that. Reading my words were hard,I was not holding back. But he saw a different side. I do communicate a lot,but not effectively. I wish I could say it's a fix,but it's not. He is more helpful but we still struggle.

I did read something the other day. It went on to say how much cancer kills. Not just people but trust,dreams,marriages,happiness. All very true. But this is what was good to read.. it stated that most families,couples do not take time to grieve. Grief isn't only for a life,it's dreams,trust,future plans. I cannot tell you how many times I've said"I really need to wait until I'm better" silly things like furniture, vacation plans, just stuff. The financial stress takes a toll when you are the one creating new expenses. I had an easy cancer. Surgery took it all away for me. But it was a huge wave that crashed. The after math is still trying to settle. I did not grieve my loss. I'm still struggling to learn how maybe you and your wife did not grieve the loss yet. It's hard to take a minute when from diagnosis it's boom change,boom sick,boom recovery,boom hell... figuring out how to put yourself in that moment of sadness is hard. Many says "count your blessings,be grateful. But you don't hear "did you have funeral for your life before her your diagnosis.or asking people to attend a service for an old life. It's not an actual event but it needs to be,really. Makes me think more and more people would heal in all ways if we did this.

Since she is "psychologically healthy" maybe she would agree to go to the therapist with you in order to help you.

This thread encapsulates what's so good about the best posts on BCO. A dilemma is posed and responders get right in with lots of advice and personal anecdotes. Relationships are so individual that no one solution fits all. Personally, I'm not sure that you can prescribe solutions to sexual problems without much more information being shared, and both sides of the situation being presented. Having said this, I've been very impressed with the candidness of people here and there are good many take-away messages and suggestions for us all, both men and women.

I've experienced the dilemma of sexual rehabilitation from the perspective of a man with bc. I found that my partner was very happy to go with the flow as to what is possible and what wasn't. Intimacy for us was varied and didn't just involve a "poke". Variety was the spice of life. Having said that, we both celebrated my joy when penetrative sex was possible. Likely my partner didn't find it as fantastic as I did, but it was an achievement when you consider the comprehensive treatment I went through.

So much for having a mastectomy. Fast forward a couple of years and I get prostate cancer. The prostatectomy has left me impotent for an unspecified time so the sort of intimacy that worked post mastectomy stands us in good stead now. Anyway, life is long, hopefully, and we all need to do the best we can given the particular circumstances we are in. I believe if a relationship was strong before cancer strikes, it will endure. If not, making plans for the a future with someone else makes sense. Or else a single life would be preferable to putting up with a crappy relationship.

Adrift.... first of all, the word ADRIFT is such a perfect description. We, you, our partners and family are all in uncharted waters and these freaking waves are never ending. How on earth do we make our way back to normal?

A friend recently lost her 80 year old mother. She told me she felt "untethered". I told my friend that her mom was now truly untethered. It just depends which end of the rope we are holding on to.

I have no answers for anyone's relationship. But here is what I do know. You must communicate. No matter how scary or ugly or selfish or hurtful your feelings are, you must share them with your wife. She deserves to know how you are doing too.And you may be surprised at what she has to say as well.

Lastly, there is no hurry to make an important life changing decision. Take your time. These sort of decisions shouldn't be made during tumultuous times. Be patient. Be kind. With yourself, your wife, and with the universe. One day you will simply know that you know what to do.

I admire you for speaking so candidly. I wish you both well.

Robin

GraceDD, I think your answer to this question is known only to you. If his infraction is worsened by your cultural conditioning and spiritual precepts rather than what might be regarded as OK given the situation, and given hubbys obvious good points, then it's all a matter of how you might adjust. Nothing will alter the past, but how much change are either of you prepared to take in your futures? Of course, if you believe your CMs are a direct result of this newly discovered situation you may fairly put your health first and decide to call it a day with him. My only reservation about this is that if your CM rise means cancer is returning for clinical rather than psychological reasons and more treatment is in store, would you really be better off without his practical and emotional support?

Welcome SLMMom,This Dx nearly a year ago has finally brought Hubby & me to a deep healing and communication about all things relational. Today Hubby knows that his eye contact is deeply bonding and comforting for me. I have come to accept "what isn't" and "what can't", and accept "his way of feeling fulfilled" during Stage IV. This took deep soul searching for both of us! It was worth it, though very hard. We are worth being loved "as we are", and so are You, and so is your Spouse. Speak up gently about your wishes, your truths, now and changing, and let him speak his too. This Dx. hits our spouses in an entirely different way than it hits us. Be patient, and do your self-care, champion for who you authentically are. Oops, Sorry - I didn't mean to sound preachy! Just the voice of my personal experience, and love. We are all still full living beings, simply Living with Cancer. Hope this helps...

Adrift, I get the feeling that you are asking the community for permission. Remember, You are talking to people with cancer. We all have our own fears about survival and relationships. I'm not in a relationship right now and thank God! I don't have to worry if I will be deserted by my partner. On the other hand, I don't know If I'll ever get the courage to date. Maybe I should wear a big pink C on my jacket so as to scare all possibilities away. You see, we can't really give you permission. Your personal circumstances are not the same as anyone else's. When we listen to you it is only natural to see it through our own lens which is peculiar to out own circumstances. Ultimately, you are the one who will have to take full responsibility for making your own decision. No blaming it on anyone else. I urge you to visit a psychologist or other counselor of some sort. They are trained to to keep their own "stuff" out of their "take" about the problem you present to them.You have a lot to think about. Are you looking to leave the relationship completely? Will an occasional prostitute do? Do you think you can develop a casual relationship with someone else who won't want more? Is your wife refusing to have an honest discussion about how she feels? Would she rather you do what you want and not rub it in her face by asking? Gotta communicate with her. I wish you a successful outcome. I think it would be ideal if you could look for a ounselor together that you can both agree on.