A place to talk death and dying issues

Rose, sending you much love and strength. I hope you, DD, and DH are feeling better this morning. Sometimes families are in denial and can't listen.

I pray your oncologist has some options to help you with your DWD, even some relief from the vomiting would be a big help.

It is true, our system of death is unfair. Animals, even prisoners on death row are treated better than terminal patients. I guess the system is designed to "protect" us from being abused or sent to an early death. That really needs to change. We all want to have a peaceful death.

Holding you in my thoughts and prayers, Madelyn

Dear Rosevalley:

I wanted to mention a couple of other anti-nausea options, perhaps you have tried them already but I will mention just in case.

Transderm-Scop patch. It is placed behind the ear. It is intended for motion sickness when traveling but it could help with nausea. I have seen it used with surgery to prevent post-op nausea.

Compazine and Phenergan rectal suppositories. These meds are also available as injectable, so if you have someone who could give you an IM shot, these could be an option. They are also available as tablet.

Meclizine 25 mg (Bonine) available over the counter. Another med intended for motion sickness but also used for post-op nausea. It is a tablet but it is chewable so perhaps it would stay down better.

You mention taking Zofran and sometimes throwing it up. Are you taking the swallow pill,, cuz there is one that will dissolve under your tongue. It is called Zofran ODT.

Sometimes switching out meds help. Using multiple anti-nausea meds on the day you take the DWD meds could be an option.

Gentle hugs,, glennie

Rosevalley, Reading all this makes me angry that you can't get what you need. What about a trip to the emergency room, one visit there would equal $3K! insurance , shaking my head. I would open up a credit card, and charge in patient care, let them come after you when you are gone. Right?

thank you for sharing, and giving us the insight for what we need to prepare for in the end. I wish you peace and pain free days. I always thought we will know when enough is enough.

I have taken enough zofran to stem the tide and maybe a constant amount has helped. The vomiting stopped and I am keeping liquids down. I did only take off 700cc of fluid which is way less then I normally do. So I am relieved.. fluids tomorrow and a talk with the oncologist. I think my system over reacts to constant episodes of vomiting - with yet more vomiting. Some kind of miserable feedback loop. Horrid. So I now know just take the zofran round the clock.

Some of you have mentioned taking morphine as a way out. Morphine makes me wildly nauseous. I have had PCA's during my 2 mastectomies both with MS and was nauseous both times. Couldn't wait to get off the machine to oral pills. Happy to see that go. So hospice uses a lot of morphine and sublingual version.. ugh. Nothing like adding to the N/V.. I really wonder what they do with head and neck cancers, jaw, esophageal etc.. those folks can't eat, take pills.. WTH? Do they place feeding tubes for meds.. maybe a programmable pain pump? if hospice won't use IV then what do they do for these poor souls? I am going to ask tomorrow cause honestly I want to know.

I listened well to hospice and had them out twice. I was wildly unimpressed by what they offered me for relief. I mean I had literally everything they already offered and more. Home health had left my port accessed so I gave myself fluids and flushed it afterwards (last Feb). It was as if everything palliative that I had would be taken, because hospice said all IV anything would stop. Back to suppositories and disintegrating zofran. I would need to clean myself up and empty my own bucket, as hospice came out just a couple times a week, DH works full time. Yay.. thanks. Gotta tell DWD looks mighty fine - clean, fast and dignified compared to vomiting on yourself out your nose and down your front.. drooling from nausea and no relief 24/7. Been there last year and not going there again. What is going on right now isn't as relentless as last year. If I didn't live in Oregon I would need to move to a state where DWD was legal.

I don't want to put anyone off hospice because I too have seen them do wonderful things, but in my circumstances they are woefully inadequate. Hospice was great for my Dad and my FIL awesome in fact. Neither had vomiting as an issue.

You said it, Barbe! I'm contemplating going the same route when my time comes. I'll try to stay at home as long as I can, but when I can't walk to the john using my walker by myself, that will be it. Shitting the bed (even w/those pads) in my own home doesn't really sound appealing to me at all.

My mom, who had a different form of cancer (soft tissue sarcoma) stayed at home until the last two days. It was horrible. There was NO hospice way back then. Lord, how she suffered. She had a lot of trouble breathing at home, and when she went to the hospital, they just cranked up the morphine and she passed peacefully at last.

L

Rosevalley, I hate that you are going through what you are experiencing right now. Why in the world can't something be done to help make you more comfortable? I have a fear of this very same thing.

You are one of my favorite people here, Rose. No, we don't know each other, have only exchanged one PM. But you are like Stephanie was - open with what is going on, sharing knowledge, letting us walk with you on this part of your life. I want you to know that I appreciate you and all that you do. You are so brave right now. Sending love and no N/V thoughts your way.

JJ

I am so sorry to tell you all that KT passed away Monday 5th (New Zealand time). She left behind her husband, son and daughter. She was a key part of our Kiwi ladies thread on here and we will all miss her compassion and kind heart. Best wishes to all of you here.

To all the Kiwi ladies and their families- blessings and hugs with the passing of KT. She is free at last and at peace. May her family find solace in her love and memories. It's so sad to leave a husband and children.

Mammaray- you are right it is both joy and sorrow a true mix of emotions. Life is like that the good with the bad, light/dark, health/sickness, joy/sorrow. Lovingkindness to all.

Just recently KT mentioned she is out of options, she always tried to help. Go with the Angels, Aghhh it just doesn't get easier. Crazy crazy. Thanks Optimist in sharing with us.

Rosevalley hope you are stable today.

Since my brother's death in late October (cancer ended his life), I've found myself seeking solace and insight through many different avenues. Here's an article about a memoir that explores learning to live with loss, which has helped me to broaden my perspective not only about coping with a loved one's death but also about facing my ongoing health changes and new challenges.

https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/06/09/meghan-o-...

A sample: "If children learn through exposure to new experiences, mourners unlearn through exposure to absence in new contexts. Grief requires acquainting yourself with the world again and again; each "first" causes a break that must be reset… And so you always feel suspense, a queer dread—you never know what occasion will break the loss freshly open.

I second those posts!!!! Yes Yes more dialogue and action on treating side effects at the end of life.

Barbe, the morphine overdose is an unofficial method of helping people pass without pain. I've heard several of my friends tell me that's what their families did for their parents/grandparents when their pain was too severe at end of life. Sometimes, they're looking over their shoulder as they say it (because they are afraid it is illegeal).

I shudder at what happens in families where they don't know how to ask for these methods.

What Dr. Quill is suggesting is that these discussions take place in the open, and sooner. Let's get these methods out in the open (and make them legal if needed), so families can help their loved ones "die better."

"Just a peaceful passing" should be the right of every patient, and the goal of all the medical staff.

Madelyn

When my Dad was dying I asked him if he was afraid. He said only of pain so I was able to reassure him that we would keep him out of pain. I know it will be done for me when my time comes.

We have the "Options for Death and Dying" (or Death w/Dignity) here in California, but it's a real pain to get the ball rolling on it, AND you have to swallow a barbiturate cocktail. What if you're TOO weak to even raise a glass? What if (like our dear Rosevalley has bemoaned) you have really bad N/V and wouldn't be able to keep the stuff down?

That is why these conversations are IMPERATIVE! I always say society treats mortally ill cats and dogs better than terminal human beings, It really pisses me off.

That's a good question! I'll have to ask someone who knows more than me.