Oncologist pushes Avatar course at me: borderline unethical?

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Anonymous
Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
edited February 2017 in Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment

Dear all,

First, I trust my oncologist; I vetted her over 5 years ago when I began to evaluate treatment, and weighed her against my second opinion doc from MD Anderson. My MO came highly recommended by friends and others who had heard of her or worked with her. But in the past years she periodically pushes this "avatar" course at me.

When I met with her at my regular check-up last Friday, I asked her if there was anything I wasn't doing to try to keep myself safe (I keep my BMI around 19-20%; eat clean, no meat, low fat, plant-based, take my AI regularly, exercise, meditate, blah blah). I've asked her in the past if there is something else I should be doing. Instead of being a doctor, she handed me this brochure about Avatar, and try to talk me into it.

When I tell her I'm anxious about being there to see her, she tells me that's normal yet pushes this Avatar course at me, too.

On Friday she gave me her private cell # and wanted me to call this past weekend to talk for an hour about the course. (I didn't) When I've told her I can't take 9 days off and pay $$ to do this course--they only have it in Orlando--she blows by it and continues on her enthusiastic, "selling the course" pattern. Last Friday she told me there was a woman who did the course and has lived with metastatic cancer for 20 years (implying that the course is helping keep her alive?).

I like my MO but I find this really unethical. What do you think? Anyone know about this course? I looked it up online and this program/course has some markings of cult behavior--if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is....and the website is not transparent about cost, or what they do in the course, etc.

Claire

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  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 5,068
    edited October 2016

    What is Avatar? I was able to find a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_Course. Seems like a Scientologist scam. I would run, not walk, away from that MO.

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  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited October 2016

    Yes, it sounds out of her scope of practice and not competent.

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  • leftduetostupidmods
    leftduetostupidmods Member Posts: 620
    edited October 2016

    I just looked it up, it just looks like snake oil crap like LeVel Thrive. I had a dr. trying to push on me one of those one time and I looked her in the eye and told her that by my knowledge my insurance doesn't pay for that type of stuff, but I'll be happy to inform them that when I came to have a consultation they pay for, I was offered this as part of the consultation and the discussion took so many minutes out of the x minutes billed to the insurance. She didn't know how to backpedal faster.

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  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 5,068
    edited October 2016

    Thank you kayb! I have problems with links, probably just me, on this website.

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  • sandcastle
    sandcastle Member Posts: 587
    edited October 2016

    I, just googled this course and it is for Profit....I think I would RUN from this Doctor and find a new one....Liz

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2016

    Thanks ladies, because in my original post I explained why I can't run from this doctor, I simply wanted to know if you felt her periodic actions to suggest Avatar were borderline unethical. I'm glad you all agree with me.

    I think I'll just stop asking MO what else I can do to protect myself from c that I might not be doing and check in with my ND more instead. If I stop asking, MO will stop pushing.

    I still hope to hear from someone on these boards who might have actually taken the course, so I can hear a first-hand account of their experience, so I'll leave this open for a while.


    Claire

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  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited October 2016

    Good heavens, I would report that to the medical board

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  • sbelizabeth
    sbelizabeth Member Posts: 2,889
    edited October 2016

    Wow, what a pickle. You trust and respect your MO, but she pressure-sells the Avatar Course, which looks like an expensive Scientology mumbo-jumbo scheme.

    I once had a friend who was a big-shot in Mannatech, a vitamin/supplement pyramid sales organization. She was eager to get me signed up to sell this stuff, and I finally was very direct with her.

    "I respect your choice to believe these products promote good health and to sell them yourself, but I have no interest whatsoever in them. I don't want to be involved in Mannatech in any way."

    That helped, and she never approached me again. Perhaps a similar statement to your MO would put the Avatar Course out of the picture entirely.

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  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited October 2016

    Unethical? I would certainly feel very uncomfortable with a doctor pushing any product on me, even Tupperware. Sorry, but I would report this conduct to your local or state governing board

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  • mebmarj
    mebmarj Member Posts: 380
    edited October 2016

    Every health professional that works for any hospital or group facility has to attend annual compliance training. In the training you have to list any conflict of interest. It is completely unethical if the doctor in any way can benefit financially from you taking this outside course that implies longevity, she gave you her personal cell number and tried to sell it to you even outside of her regularoffice hours.

    That's like working for a Chevy dealer but trying to sell a faithful Chevy customer on oil changes thru their family owned shop rather than the dealership. Use caution and listen to your gut.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2016

    Quite frankly I guess I posted this because I was shocked at her behavior. I've been seeing her for 5 years and this was the first semi-hard sell that she tried. I am not ready to fire her--trustworthy cancer care is hard to find even in my small Az city, and I drive 45 min one way to see her, because friends from Mayo in Phoenix recommended her to me.

    But geez, at the very least unprofessional, and now appears rather unethical, too. I just wanted to know if I needed to step up exercise or stop eating some particular food, or share most recent research with me (she does cheerfully, when I ask) and instead she offers me this.

    Claire

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2016

    Yeah, I would just stop asking her if there was anything else you can do and keep the lifestyle questions for your ND.

    On a side note, I have a friend that lives in AZ (Phoenix) and I do notice that alternative treatments seem to be a lot more popular and widely available there. She doesn't have cancer, but tells me about how they offer cryotherapy at her local gym! She also gets prolozone and oxygen therapy regularly among other things. I've looked into prolozone (for knee pain) and it's not very common up here in Washington, yet it sounds like it's offered on every corner there!

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2016

    Susansgarden, Az is weird. We are ultra conservative, yet we offer medical marijuana legally. We also allow a lot of leeway for NDs to offering treatments, and a lot of those treatments are even covered by some major insurance companies.

    Claire

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  • Wildplaces
    Wildplaces Member Posts: 864
    edited January 2017

    Ahhh if only it were that easy...and it only took one course.

    Keep the oncologist if you feel comfortable with her and the rest of her management ( meanwhile stay informed) but rest assured that it is rather strange behaviour, and medicswho were great 5 years ago might not be so in 5 years.

    Having said that it could be a personality quirk and outside Avatar she might be brilliant.

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  • Fearless59
    Fearless59 Member Posts: 74
    edited February 2017

    Hi, I have been Scientology since 1999 and Avatar is not a Scientology program.

    Scientology is "where science and religion meet," and is all about helping people become more able.

    Scientology shows up in Wikipedia's definition of Avatar most likely because we had a legal case against Avatar's founder in connection with our copyrights and/or trademarks.

    Unfortunately the Avatar Wikipedia definition has confused people a little and should be corrected so that people don't mistake Avatar for Scientology.

    Thank you.

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  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited February 2017

    It is at the very least borderline unethical. She is taking advantage of her patients at a vulnerable moment (if she is trying to 'sell' you, she is doing the same to others). If you have an otherwise good relationship with her, I would have a serious talk with her about this. If you don't turn her in, someone else down the line will do so (I, myself, would definitely be complaining to someone higher up the line), and she will be in serious trouble.

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  • reflect
    reflect Member Posts: 576
    edited February 2017

    Nothing borderline about it, it's unethical. If you feel you can talk about this with her and salvage the doc/pt relationship, do it. Boundaries are critical for trust. As for me, I'd be running away.

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  • AKJ
    AKJ Member Posts: 190
    edited February 2017

    Any chance your MO meant the nutrition plan? https://www.avatarnutrition.com


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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2017

    Hi AKJ,

    She didn't mention it, but talked about scholarships for the course. So I I don't think so.

    Thanks, though.

    I have my 5 month check up this Monday. I'm going to give her one more chance then re-evaluate. And I'm not going to ask her what else I might be doing to protect myself--I already know what to do and I think I'm doing it as best I can. She's not great with advice, but she's great with treatment and being current on new developments.

    Claire

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