Ketogenic diet? I am so confused

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  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited March 2016

    This is our favorite keto-friendly substitute for mashed potatoes, and it's another quick and easy recipe. It is adapted from an old recipe for twice baked potatoes in the original Fit For Life diet book. Fit for Life is a vegetarian food combining plan. They don't eat proteins and starches together, and the recipe was originally designed to give the potatoes a cheesy flavor without adding any cheese. My version tastes very close to the original and is terrific alone or with gravy. As an aside, for thickening gravy and sauces I use a fiber powder made from a type of yam, called glucomannan (look up how to use it properly to avoid lumps). It adds no taste, calories or carbs. You can get it at the health food store or online.

    There are a lot of mashed cauliflower recipes online, which is always a decent low-carb way to replace mashed potatoes, but this recipe adds winter squash which makes it seem more potato-like in texture, and adds a little more nutrition, fiber and flavor. The addition of cumin might sound strange, but don't leave it out because that is what creates the illusion of buttery, cheesy flavor without any dairy.

    Cauliflower and Winter Squash Mash

    Makes approx. 6 cups, with 4 net carbs per 1/2 cup serving

    2 16oz bags of frozen cauliflower (you can use fresh, but at over $10 for a non-organic cauliflower where I live, I always use frozen)

    4 cloves of garlic

    1 10oz package frozen winter squash, thawed (I use Cascadian Farms Organic which is already mashed, but you can also use frozen cubed or fresh. You want a total of 1 cup mashed of any winter squash, which is what you get in the 10 oz frozen brick. 1-1/2 to 2 cups of the cubes would equal 1 cup mashed depending on what you use.)

    2 Tbsp extra virgin olive oil

    2 tsp ground cumin

    1-1/2 tsp salt

    paprika

    Directions: Steam frozen cauliflower and garlic cloves for 10 minutes until soft. Drain and return the cauliflower and garlic to the hot pan to evaporate some of the moisture, then use a stick blender in the pan to puree the mixture. Add the thawed mashed squash, olive oil, salt and cumin, and mix well. Transfer the mixture to a casserole dish (11x7 glass baking dish works well but anything it fits in will do). Sprinkle top with paprika, and cook in a 350 degree oven for 30 minutes.

    Tips: You can skip the oven-baking step if you are short of time, but it does cook out more of the moisture and produce a better taste and texture so I do recommend the extra step. You can vary the oven temperature if you have other stuff in the oven, just adjust the cooking time accordingly. If you use fresh or frozen cubed squash, rather than pre-mashed, you can steam it along with the cauliflower and garlic, but put it on top so it doesn't disintegrate into the steaming water (the frozen especially has a tendency to break down). If you use the frozen mashed squash and plan to skip the time in the oven, you want to cook the squash before you mix it into the cauliflower mixture, rather than just thaw it. I use the microwave for that.

    Enjoy!

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited March 2016

    This is not my recipe but it's a favorite quick and easy low carb/keto breakfast food. I usually eat one every other day. I think flax is still one of those controversial foods that some people with breast cancer have been told not to eat, but there are studies that suggest it may decrease growth of both ER+ and ER- breast cancers, as well as enhance the effect of tamoxifen, so I have decided, with my doctor's approval, that it is OK for me. The recommended amount you see most is 1-2 Tbsp of ground flax meal per day. The recipe calls for 1/4 cup (4 Tbsp), which is why I only eat one every other day so as not to overdo it. If you don't eat flax you can use almond flour instead, although I have never done it so I can't comment on the taste.

    If you do eat flax, please look into the issues of cadmium contamination and storage requirements if you haven't already. Cadmium is a carcinogen and because flax absorbs a lot of it from the soil most brands are going to be contaminated. You can buy cadmium-free flax meal online that is grown in a particular area in Canada but you need to store it in the freezer. It's preferable to grind your own seeds, but I have not found a cadmium-free source of whole seeds. More info here.

    Blueberry Flax Muffin

    Makes one muffin. 2 net carbs and 9 grams of fiber (edited to revise carb and fiber count - accidentally included the almond butter I eat on it in the totals).

    1/4 cup ground flax meal

    1/2 tsp baking powder

    stevia to taste (can't recommend an amount because sweetness varies between brands. I use a 100% pure organic stevia powder.)

    a little shake of salt

    1 egg

    2 Tbsp fresh or frozen blueberries or other berries

    Directions: Mix the dry ingredients together in a small bowl. Beat the egg in a cup or mug with a fork. Add the dry ingredients to the cup and mix well. Stir in the berries. Cook in the microwave for 1-1/2 minutes. If you leave out the berries it only takes a minute to cook. Let it cool for a few minutes, then it dumps right out of the cup onto your plate. Awesome served with almond butter!

    Tips: This recipe is very adaptable and you will find several different versions of it online. These are not included in my carb count, but you can add cinnamon, pumpkin pie spice, really any kind of spice you want. If you leave out the berries it also makes a decent bread substitute. You can add savory spices for that, such as garlic and onion powder, or italian seasoning, parmesan cheese if you eat dairy. Just make sure you count any extra added carbs. Most versions of the recipe include oil as an ingredient but flax has a lot of fat and so does the almond butter I eat with it so I leave out the oil. It makes no difference to the taste or texture.

  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited March 2016

    Solfeo, I love the one minute muffins!

    There are so many variations. For me, the all flax comes out a bit what I would call slimy. I make a mix of my own and keep it stored. Then I measure out 1/2 cup for the muffin. My mix consists of 1 C. Flax meal, 1 C. Almond flour, 1/2 C. Oat Fiber, 1/2 C. Coconut Flour, 2 T. Erythritol, 1/2 t. salt. I also start with 1 Tbsp of butter or coconut oil melted, then mix in the egg and dry ingredients (plus 1/2 t. baking powder).

    I have used berries of all kinds and rhubarb is great. Sometimes I sprinkle a little cinnamon/sweetener on top. Another variation is to add cocoa powder for a chocolate muffin.

    I find that frozen fruit works especially well.

    I usually cook mine for 70 seconds.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited March 2016

    Hi zogo - glad you mentioned erythritol as a sweetener! I use stevia for most things but erythritol is a must when you are making something that requires the caramelization ability of sugar, like glazes or barbeque sauces. Made some awesome homemade cranberry sauce with it for Thanksgiving.

    The reason I don't use more erythritol is because even though it is called a "natural" sweetener I don't know how natural the processing really is (sometimes those claims are misleading), and I like the organic stevia just fine for most uses. I've intended to do more research on erythritol but it's low on the priority list with the small amount of sweetener I use. Luckily I never had much of a sweet tooth. My weakness was starchy, salty and fatty carbs - bread, chips, pizza. Oh, and wine, but that's another story LOL

    For those wondering, Swerve is the brand of erythritol I use. Measures like sugar and you can find it in the regular grocery store now. It's supposed to just pass out of your body so the carbs don't count.

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited March 2016

    Solfeo what a great job you did on your weight loss! I haven't used the coconut flours, almond flours etc much. I just try to avoid them but I wondered if anyone had a good pie crust - just bottom crust recipe that I could use for a cheesecake or pumpkin pie?

    I got off my diet and I wish I hadn't because I'm having trouble getting back to that strict. One issue the keto diet seems to solve for me is exercise making me hungry. For many years, when I exercised I just ate more because I was so hungry. So I'm trying to get back in ketosis...

  • GG27
    GG27 Member Posts: 2,128
    edited March 2016

    I never bother with crust for either cheesecake or pumpkin pie, for cheesecake I use a round of parchment for the bottom & pumpkin pie, I put in a pan & cook it as normal & cut it into wedges & slather whipped cream on it.

    But here's my friends recipe, I haven't made it, but have eaten it. You need to like coconut & it's not as flaky as regular pastry, but tasty.

    Coconut Flour Pie Crust

    Ingredients

    • 1/2 cup Coconut Oil or Grass Fed Butter, Melted
    • 2 Eggs, Preferably Local Pastured
    • 1/4 Teaspoon Sea Salt
    • 3/4 Cup Coconut Flour
    • 1-3 Tablespoons Raw Honey

    Directions

    1. Preheat oven to 400 degrees.

    2. In a medium bowl beat butter, eggs, honey and salt together with a fork.

    3. Then add coconut flour. Stir until dough holds together.

    4. Gather the dough into a ball, then pat into a 9″ greased pie pan.

    5. Prick the dough with a fork.

    6. Bake for 8-10 minutes or until lightly brown. Let cool.

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited March 2016

    Thanks, GG. I do love coconut and I think it would be fabulous with cheesecake. I'll also try the parchment paper trick for pumpkin pie. I don't so much require the crust for that one.

  • Ieva
    Ieva Member Posts: 28
    edited April 2016

    Hi everyone!

    I am trying to stay in ketosis but for me it is not easy to reach therapeutic zone.

    How You measure that You are in ketosis? Is anybody in therapeutic ketosis level?

    Do You measure Your ketone / glucose blood samples?

    What are Your Ketone/glucose numbers?

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited April 2016

    I reached another milestone today. 29.8 BMI - officially out of the obese range and into merely overweight! It has been 16 years since I have been at this weight. Total loss of 106 lbs (88 of it on keto since diagnosis).

    Leva, I go by urinary ketones (check only occasionally now because I know what I can eat), blood glucose level, how I feel (having food cravings is a good indicator of falling out of ketosis), and whether I'm losing weight or not. As long as I show some level of urinary ketones and my blood sugar stays at or near baseline, I don't worry about the exact level of ketones in my urine. I spend enough money on food, don't need the added expense of blood ketone testing.

    You have probably done enough reading to know that the urine dip sticks don't necessarily give you an accurate representation, especially if you drink a lot of water. Just because the color is light that doesn't mean you're not in ketosis. Try drinking less water for one day, and if you're solidly in ketosis the stick should get quite a bit darker. If your blood sugar is fluctuating a lot before and after meals, that's another indicator that you're not maintaining. Mine stays around 75 at all times. It was up in the 80s last month but it has come back down. My weight loss had also slowed down and I realized it was because I was eating too many macadamia nuts. My body can't tolerate them over a certain amount, even when I stay within my carb limit (20-30 per day for me, usually closer to 20).

    If you really think you are not able to stay in ketosis there are a few common culprits to examine - possible hidden carbs, specific foods that you are personally sensitive to (test blood glucose before and after meals and experiment to identify), too much protein, not enough calories (you might have to add healthy fat in that case), or too many. You can delve more into how to avoid these pitfalls online.

    Good luck!

  • ORgal
    ORgal Member Posts: 56
    edited April 2016

    Solfeo -- congrats on the weight loss!! And thanks for all of the info. I recently found some hidden carbs that had snuck into my regular routine without me realizing, and now the scale is once again going down for me as I had expected it should.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited April 2016

    Thanks Orgal and back at ya! I have 42 lbs to go, for a total weight loss of 148 lbs. When I first started losing this weight before diagnosis, on a low carb but not quite keto plan, that goal seemed so unattainable. Now I just feel like I eat for health and the weight loss has become more of a side effect at this point. I yoyo dieted my entire adult life, creeping up higher and higher into morbid obesity every time I failed at another diet. I have tried absolutely everything, and the one thing that stands out about this particular diet is that as long as I stick to the plan I never feel deprived or hungry and cravings are non-existent. It's not that I don't miss a good bagel and cream cheese, but I don't have that uncontrollable urge to shovel one down that always led to diet failure in the past.

    It's no wonder most people fail at achieving and maintaining weight loss. There is a real addiction process going on in the brain, that is difficult for anyone to overcome without completely eliminating the foods that are causing it. From the research I have done, I believe the biggest offenders are sugar and grains. There is an actual protein in wheat that has an opiate-like effect in the brain, called gliadin. Most people accept that sugar isn't good for them, but try telling someone that "healthy whole grains" are what is sabotaging their attempts at weight loss and their eyes glaze over.

    I've recommended this book before but for new people who stumble onto this thread, please check out Wheat Belly Total Health: The Ultimate Grain-Free Health and Weight-Loss Life Plan by cardiologist Dr. William Davis. That's what started me on this road to health, and his diet, while it can be easily adapted to keto (which is what I did after the first 18 lbs.), is somewhat less restrictive for those who aren't ready to go full keto. He also has a blog with a lot of free info if you don't want to buy the book.

  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited April 2016

    solfeo, Congrats on that huge loss!! That's quite the accomplishment!

    I have the original Wheat Belly book and tried to get into see Dr. Wm. Davis about 4 years ago. He wasn't taking new patients and shortly thereafter closed his practice. I'm disappointed that he wants to charge for most of his websites. It seems as if fame and money has gone to his head. I sat across from him in the bar of a restaurant a few blocks from my house last month. He's definitely not slim (but, neither am I, not yet at least).

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited April 2016

    I guess I understand how hard it would be to continue a medical practice when you are writing and promoting books, and therefore helping more people than you ever could from 9-5, and I don't really see a problem with charging for his other websites. No one likes to work for free and his companies need to support themselves, but the blog I linked to is free and everything one needs to know about the diet is available there without having to buy the books or spend a dime. I have seen people criticize his ideas because he has a little extra weight on him. I have to sympathize because no one would have wanted to take nutritional advice from me at 288 lbs., but even in my own failure I had an entire library of nutrition and health info in my head and could have helped just about anyone's problems but my own. It took a cancer diagnosis to force me to apply what I knew to myself.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited September 2016

    It's been awhile since I've updated. I just recently achieved another weight loss milestone after 14 months on a ketogenic diet. I'm now in the normal BMI range after starting out morbidly obese in July 2015, and only 14 lbs. away from my goal weight. That is a total of 139 lbs. lost to date. 72 of it while on tamoxifen, which is supposed to make it nearly impossible to lose weight. I keep telling people struggling with weight while on anti-hormonal therapy that carbs are key, but there is still this perception that ketogenic diets are unhealthy. For anyone who still thinks that, take a little gander at my most recent blood lipid profile:

    image

    It's true that tamoxifen can modestly lower LDL and raise HDL, but it can also cause hypertriglyceridemia (high triglycerides), and mine are less than half of what they were when I started. I believe the diet has actually protected me from that effect of tamoxifen.

    My A1C is also down to 4.9.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2016

    That is an awesome achievement! Congrats!

  • Luckynumber47
    Luckynumber47 Member Posts: 397
    edited September 2016

    Congrats on the awesome weight loss and finding such a great eating plan!

    Can I ask how many carbs you aim for? We started Paleo 2 years ago after reading a book by Terry Wahls. Best thing I ever did for myself. Like you it was a lifetime of "dieting" to ever higher weight. Once I got the evil sugar and grains out of my diet losing weight was a piece of cake (pun intended) and I think it really helped me breeze through surgery and recovery.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited September 2016

    Thanks SerenitySTAT! When I started the diet needing to lose that much weight it seemed so impossible. I had tried absolutely everything prior to keto and failed miserably. I can hardly believe I have finally succeeded and honestly it hasn't been that hard because this diet literally freed me of my food cravings and compulsion to overeat. I had been obese for 17 years and morbidly so for the last 5. I can't stress enough that if I can do it anyone can.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited September 2016

    Thanks Luckynumber47! I try to stay under 20 net carbs per day to maintain ketosis and continue losing. I can eat a few more without gaining weight but I lose better under 20, especially the closer I get to goal. I never had a sweet tooth fortunately, but I was a starchy and salty carb junkie.

    I've said this before but I'll repeat it for new people to the thread. My naturopath recommended keto for the cancer and it just happened to work wonders for my weight. I'm still not sure if I need to maintain ketosis for life once the excess weight is gone to reduce recurrence risk. I tend to think ketones are less important than keeping blood sugar and insulin steady and low, which can be done without being in ketosis. I'll never go back to eating sugar and grains but I'm expecting to be able to increase the fruit and veggie carbs. Basically Paleo, but with enough planned carb restriction to keep my blood sugar steady before and after meals. I'm guessing that's going to be around 45-50 net carbs per day but I will soon find out what my actual tolerance is going to be.

  • HappyHammer
    HappyHammer Member Posts: 1,247
    edited September 2016

    Solfeo- WOW.  Congrats to you and thank you for sharing your journey and lessons learned!


  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited September 2016

    Thanks HappyHammer!

  • KayMc1
    KayMc1 Member Posts: 13
    edited September 2016

    I've been keto for a year, and veggies aren't considered toxic. It's important to eat cruciferous veggies, which have tons of nutrition, low carbs, are alkaline ph, etc, etc. I've lost 74 LB during the past 2 yrs. There's also some great studies with keto and cancer treatment, as the very low carb intake supposedly starves cancer stem cells. Time will tell...


    BTW, I'm now down to 28% BMI, which is down from 40% at my start! My goal is to lose another 20-25 LB for cancer control, and then hopefully maintain. I've been on Arimidex for the past month, and have been terrified that i'll gain weight on it. Have not so far; lost 2 LB this week.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited October 2016

    I ran across this series of podcasts on ketogenic diets as cancer therapy.

    http://metabolicoptimization.com/index.php

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited October 2016

    Fabulous work Solfeo and Kay. Keep up the good work!

    Kay I have been on tamoxifen for two years, and now on the AI for 3. While I have done a few cycles of keto and fasting, I haven't stayed keto and I've maintained weight well. I'm paleo with carbs around 50 grams a day. When I get off that plan, like I did in August, I gain weight, when I don't, I maintain. The key for me is to adjust right away. When I gain 3 lbs, I'm back to very low carb, lose the weight, and then can add back some more carbs.

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited October 2016

    i too am trying to lose weight. My BMI been stuck at 26 for last four years, so I tried ketogenic porridge......well it worked as super glue in my gut! Didn't taste too good either.........filled me up though! I eat well and am watching my fat and carb levels.......I need to lose at least 14lbs......

  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited October 2016

    Lily,

    What is a Ketogenic Porridge? What is in it?



  • Fearless59
    Fearless59 Member Posts: 74
    edited March 2017

    Google "Dr.Golzales dismantles the ketogenic diet for cancer" posted by Chris Wark.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited March 2017

    I guess I should respond to this so no one new is needlessly scared away from a ketogenic diet. First of all his name is properly spelled Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, for anyone who wants to look it up and read what he had to say and/or watch a video of him talking about the subject.

    It's been long enough that I can't remember every detail, but I have read what he wrote and saw the video, and found it to be far from a "dismantling" of keto for cancer. In part he bases his opinion on anecdotal stories from an employee of Dr. Atkins, whose experiment with low carb diets and cancer didn't turn out how he had expected. We don't know what version of a low carb diet he used. Atkins was quite different back in the day, and also it wasn't truly ketogenic in the sense of limiting protein, and grains were allowed after induction. What were these people actually eating?

    A therapeutic ketogenic diet for cancer is more than just low carb, and you're probably not going to do as well if you're eating a lot of cheese and bacon every day, or other processed low carb foods of any kind, even if they are technically keto. Keto for cancer is very low carb, protein on the lower end of moderate, whole food, with as many low carb vegetables as you can fit within your carb limit. The rest is healthy fat. Also with some level of calorie restriction and blood glucose control.

    Dr. Gonzalez (he is no longer living) and others have had some good experiences with patients on high carb diets, but all I really got from that was that there is probably more than one "right" nutritional approach to cancer, and it might be different for different people under different circumstances. I was 136 lbs. this morning, one pound away from reaching my goal weight after 153 lbs of weight loss. If I went back on a high carb diet I would be back up to 288 within a year or so. What's better for breast cancer? Morbid obesity, or a diet that works?

    But anyway, I don't understand the need to pop into a diet thread to attempt to "dismantle" a program that for whatever reason you decided not to follow yourself, but others are having great success with. We are not debating keto here. We have done our research and we are supporting each other toward achieving our goals.

  • pipers_dream
    pipers_dream Member Posts: 618
    edited March 2017

    Congratulations solfeo! That is a huge accomplishment.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited March 2017

    Thanks pipers_dream! I wish I could say it was hard work, but it really wasn't that hard once I was keto-adapted and no longer having food cravings. I eat until I'm full and the weight melts off. The hardest part was getting started, as it is for anyone wanting to lose weight, but the cancer provided the motivation I had been formerly lacking over many years of trying. I won't be saying this if the BC ever comes back, but yes, I am thankful for the wake up call.

  • IAmElaine
    IAmElaine Member Posts: 87
    edited March 2017

    Interesting topic! I have been following the ketogenic way of eating for over nine years now. Not only did I lose 60 lbs early on, I have kept it off for years and maintain my weight at 125 lbs. I have now been off of all my diabetic meds for over eight years as well. As I said, this is a way of eating for me at this point. NOT a diet!

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