Proton vs Photon Radiation

Options
Kali44
Kali44 Member Posts: 65

I have just been cleared for radiation by my surgeon and my Radiology Onc wants to know whether I am doing Pho or Pro Rads and seriously do not know what to do and I have to return her call today. How did you decide?

Help please

Comments

  • dragonsnake
    dragonsnake Member Posts: 159
    edited July 2016

    Are you sure that they may use a proton beam to treat your condition? Usage of proton radiation is rare, it requires special equipment (as far as I know, access to accelerators). Proton beam can be easily focused, so it is used for treatment of localized cancers. Protons also are effectively absorbed by tissues, and thus energy is deposited locally, but the tissue damage is much greater than that one caused by high-energy photons. Please verify with your radiologist if that's the options offered to you, because usually they radiate a big area of the breast, and they usually use high-energy x-rays (photons) for that. There may be some clinical trials  in which they use a proton beam to target a tumor itself.  

  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    image

    Hi dragonsnake this is one of the pages concerning the trial.

  • dragonsnake
    dragonsnake Member Posts: 159
    edited July 2016

    I'm sorry, resolution is not high enough for me to read from the photo. If you have a localized tumor in the breast, they usually surgically remove it, then irradiate the whole breast with x-rays. Are you in a trial when they shrink the tumor, and then irradiate the site? Did they surgically remove the tumor before offering photon vs. proton beam irradiation? Are you close to Berkeley, Livermore, Jet labs on East coast, Chicago, or  Michigan, where there are nuclear research facilities with big accelerators?  If you think it's appropriate, please share more info on your case, because the choice that you face is not trivial.

  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    I am going to stick know with Photon Rads and not do the clinical trial being offered. I feel badly when clinical trials are offered and I do not participate but I am not sure about the other treatment and honestly just want to get this started and over with Thank you dragonsnake

  • dragonsnake
    dragonsnake Member Posts: 159
    edited July 2016

    Targeted proton beam  irradiation may cause less damage to the healthy tissues away from the irradiation site, but more localized damage. Photon irradiation damages approximately one quarter of the torso uniformly. I have a detailed analysis of the photon beam irradiation in the thread titled "my take on rads": https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/70/topics/845654?page=1#idx_6

  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    I just wanted to say dragonsnake.... I read some of what u posted on "my take on rads" but I feel so tired right now with all the info and just the whole situation that all I want is to be done with this asap. ..... no different to anyone else but I am just honestly tired.

    Thx once again

  • Amie0215
    Amie0215 Member Posts: 37
    edited July 2016

    I am in the middle of Proton Therapy in Oklahoma City. I just completed 12 out of 34 rounds. I chose this because it won't damage my heart and lungs. The beam is concentrated and brass rings are created for the area I need treated. I was diagnosed as stage 11B (++-). I had 16 rounds of chemo, 4 a/c, and 12 taxol followed by a lumpectomy at MD Anderson in Houston.

    A also know of two ladies who now have heart damage due to traditional radiation from the spray.

    Best of luck to you. I know its a lot to take in. I think this whole crazy experience is like drinking from a fire hose.


  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    Hi Amie0215 it is quite coincidental u have replied with a positive response about proton rads as I told the rad Onc that I would stick with Photon therapy and she asked me why..... said she was curious. I told her I really want to move on from all the treatments and as I mentioned above... I am tired of all the reading and decision making with so many possible side effects with everything. She said to think about it some more and if I changed my mind by the time I see her for simulation I could do the proton rads.

    Anyway, I had a little chat with myself and felt I owed it to myself and my family to make sure I had done the research and also that I cannot afford to get tired. Only breaks are ok. So, I have been reading up on it and it seems to be a good option for me... I think lol with that said I thank you very much for sharing ur experience with proton therapy and now leaning more towards doing it instead of photon due to the fact that my bc is on my left side and therefore it is closer to my heart.

    Thanks again and I wish you all the best and if u belong to a group please let me know as I would love to hear about your progress and others as u go along and I can also share mine with you and others too

  • dragonsnake
    dragonsnake Member Posts: 159
    edited July 2016

    I hear you, Kali44. We are asked to make decisions that we are not qualified to make, and we are not given all info that we need to in order to do it. If I would have had a localized tumor, I would probably look into proton radiation if it was offered to me. Radiation is for local control only, thus it does not make sense to me to irradiate more than the tumor bed and some tissues around it. I wrote my post on rads upon someone's request to look at rads from my professional standpoint. The gist is that  with photon radiation you cannot avoid scattering and thus the exposure of body parts other than the breast itself and auxillary lymph nodes. The radiation dose received  by the  heart, lungs, parts of the digestive tract, thyroid,  and neck may be quite significant. This can  lead to side effects other than radiation burns and fatigue.

  • Amie0215
    Amie0215 Member Posts: 37
    edited July 2016

    Kali44, so far I am not tired from the treatments - though I should. I have to drive 1 1/2 hours each way, 5 days a week. I still keep up my hours at work by staying late and working Saturday mornings. I have to work because I am the one who provides the insurance benefits in my household. I am also working on my MBA at Capella - it's Capstone time! You can do this!

    My doctor gave me Miaderm to protect my skin after treatment. It's not greasy and smells pretty good.

    Good luck!

  • Mariangel43
    Mariangel43 Member Posts: 136
    edited July 2016

    I will start radiation therapy as soon as the PS inserts and start filling the temporary implant. When I had the interview with the RO, she never told me about proton or photon radiation. But I know that now and I can choose. I hope they have the equipment so that I can make this decision. Even though proton radiation maybe problematic for the skin, I would choose it over the short and long term side effects of the photon beams. As Dragonsnake has pointed out, the photon passes thru skin, reaches other parts and burns them. The damage is more general. I will have reconstruction of the breast after I finish it and I let the PS use some of the skin of the left breast. And even though, the radiation team will protest, I will ask for the protection around my thyroid because I don't need rad there.

    Thank you for the information. I will look for info about the proton and photon rads and the equipment that produce them. And if I have to change the center, I will look for the less damage to myself.


  • Mariangel43
    Mariangel43 Member Posts: 136
    edited July 2016

    You are lucky if you have the option. I made my investigation on proton rad in Puerto Rico. No equipment exists in the island. I will ask the ROs to lower the number of doses or the energy beam. I will have to fight with them because there is a medical attitude that they do not accept a patient's suggestion because they know everything and they are god. Anyway I also have an attitude problem and if they do not hear my worries or my claims, either I move to another place or stop the rads. This is not the wisest thing to do but if I have to, I will then.

  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    Wow Amie0215 that is quite a long trip.... u are mighty strong. Good luck getting your MBA... u r awesome experience thx for the heads up re: Miaderm. I cannot wait to get started and done with this chapter and on to recon.....I am happy ingredients to stuff my bra before I can get a prosthesis as I was told by a fitter that you have to be 6 weeks out after surgery before u an fitted because of the swelling and I am ready....

    Mariangel43 the problem is exactly that there aren't many of these machines but I think doctors should let patients know because may even someone is a able to fly to the area where there is an available machine. That's why it is so good that we can all find different boards to share information. I am also going to ask for protection for my thyroid. So much we do not know....

    Dargonsnake ty for your input. It only co fir s my de ision as to the fact that this treatment is probably best for me.


    Thx all....wishing you all a good night

  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    Mariangel43 sorry to hear that you do not have the option and that the doctors won't listen to what you have to say. We are our own advocates so do what you have to get the best medical care. Good luck!

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited July 2016

    I have no idea if my insurance would pay, but I see that there is a proton radiation center within 30 minutes if my house (in light traffic). My cancer is on my left so greater precision around the heart and lungs would be a plus. Has anyone found a website that does a good job of addressing the pros and cons of each? Is proton therapy only available in the 5x per week for 6 weeks format?

    Is it still a whole breast treatment? I strongly considered a BMX because I wear an F cup, but ultimately choose a lumpectomy. That means I have a lot of area to radiate and that's scary. Thanks!

  • dragonsnake
    dragonsnake Member Posts: 159
    edited July 2016

    We may want to advocate for you health, but doctors follow protocols: it's either a package or nothing. You cannot voluntarily lower your dose or alter a protocol in any other sense. There are some different protocols for photon irradiation, and you may want to discuss them with your RO, but my feeling is that they do what they  know, and that's it. Regarding protons vs. photons, you need special equipment for  the proton therapy. I think, you have to have a proton source, and an accelerator to achieve a certain energy  for the proton beam.  I think that some select facilities   may have small accelerators, but some have to be in the vicinity of big nuclear labs that have particle accelerators. A choice between proton and photon therapy is not given to patients routinely. It was offered as a part  of a clinical trial to Kali44. There may be some other ladies that have this option, though. It would be great to hear from them.

  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 4,924
    edited July 2016

    When I looked into a proton therapy trial as an alternative to standard photon radiation therapy, I learned that an important difference is that proton therapy is a partial breast treatment as opposed to whole breast. So it is important to ask whether you are a good candidate for partial. I ultimately chose standard whole breast irradiation because of uncertainty about the appropriateness of partial for ILC, as it can spread in hard-to-detect ways. Also, I knew with WBI some axillary lymph nodes would be in the field, and I wanted them zapped because of isolated tumor cells in the sentinel node. I also asked about skin effects, and was told proton would be similar to WBI, but in a smaller area.

    A link to the National Association for Proton Therapy map of proton therapy centers in the United States:

    http://www.proton-therapy.org/map.htm


  • Kali44
    Kali44 Member Posts: 65
    edited July 2016

    Hi everyone, I did the randomize clinical trial and was not chosen to do proton therapy. At first was a bit disappointed however, I am typically of the belief though that everything happens as it should, of course, after trying/doing whatever you can and when I spoke to my rad Onc she said, because I am flat chested with no TE or anything, the photon therapy might have been more harsh on my skin so, hopefully it does not get too bad. I get started on 25 rads from Aug 9th. Set up is on Aug 8th.

    So I had my sim yesterday and boy no one warned me how painful those darn tatts would be I am fine with admitting that it was unbearable, for me, and I even cried.... Anyway, I think I am still traumatized by that part of the experience but it is over now and I am moving onward and upward. I can say this after having two red sangria drinks with hubby

Categories