Body cleanse to get rid of damaged/dead cells

ARTEXASQT · July 2016

Crazy question...just finished my last chemo 10 days ago. Woohoo! So glad to be past that part of treatment. I will be starting radiation in the next month. A friend asked "where do all the dead/damaged cancer cells go?" I know that some are eliminated in our urine and poop. My question is, would it be beneficial to do a liver, or kidney, or full body "cleanse"? I've seen lots of instances where cancer shows up in the liver, bones and brain and am wondering if that is because all of the damaged cells weren't completely eliminated. The answer is probably somewhere on this forum, but geez...there are a lot of topics and discussions to weed through. Any thoughts are welcome!

Meadow · July 2016

Hi, I too have thought of this. And you know, we are told to drink a lot of water, which of course flushes out our systems. I have a dear friend who is a BC survivor, and her hubby is a physical therapist. He has given her therapeutic massage before she was diagnosed, and then after. He has felt a distinct difference in her tissues after she was treated with chemotherapy...after hearing this, I scheduled a deep tissue massage. I just felt it would help to have a therapist dig and grind out my tissues, that I could sense my body releasing those toxins and dead cells. I felt so much better after. The next day, I was down a pound in weight, I know our bodies fluctuate that much easily in one day, but I felt lighter, less puffy, I just felt better. So this is my reponse to your question, yes, I feel our bodies can respond to a cleansing, but I am not advocating any certain cleanse. I did water and massage, hoping you have luck with whatever you decide.

ARTEXASQT · July 2016

Very interesting...thank you so much for your input.

sarahrae · July 2016

ART~

I am using essiac tea am and pm, liver support/antioxidants, calcium d-glucarate. starting coffee enemas soon. lymph massage(physical therapy for lymphadema), body massage and lots of water. I am currently doing radiation and my Onc lets me take turmeric, just no heavy doses of basic antiox's; a, e, selenium, etc.

just want to make sure that your colon is clean enough to support the cleansing that requires elimination through the bowels. If not, you would want to address that first to create a pathway.

blessings

pupmom · July 2016

Cleansing the body is a good idea. It eliminates a lot of unhealthy stuff. I don't know about dead cancer cells, but that does make intuitive sense.

I do want to add that thinking you will get factual, professionally informed answers on this board is a mistake. Most of us are not doctors, and you can go astray if you take anything you read here with more than a grain of salt.

ARTEXASQT · July 2016

Oh no...not looking for actual medical advice...grain of salt taken. Was just throwing it out there to see what other thoughts might be about it. Another thing I thought about...probiotics. Surely our guts have taken a huge hit with the chemo?

MmeJ · July 2016

From what my docs told me (I asked several), there's no reason to do this, other than psychological/symbolic. Non-cancer dead cells get eliminated just fine through normal modes of excretion.

The profile in your sig doesn't point to chemo: 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/9 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- . May I ask how you got to be one of the "lucky" ones to receive it?

Anonymous · July 2016

There's a process called autophagy that is the body's method of removing dysfunctional or damaged cells. Maybe dead cancer cells would be removed this way?

Gut lining is damaged by chemo. I've used probiotics and gelatin through food to help. I've been told not to take probiotics as a supplement. I'm still in chemo and have tolerated it with minimal side effects.

pipers_dream · July 2016

Those cells would be eliminated through your lymph and the best way to flush that out is through exercise and the rebounder (mini-trampoline) is the best way to exercise. If you had your nodes taken out, massage would probably be the next best way.

I have read that fasting will help you eliminate old and damaged cells and it will revitalize your immune system by clearing out the old cells and making room for the new ones. I did a long fast last summer and it fixed my fibroids and caused me to go straight into a long overdue menopause and those tumors had to go somewhere.

I think the position that almost all conventional docs take is that you don't need a cleanse b/c your body takes care of that just fine on its own, but my holistic MD does definitely advise cleansing and his theory is that if your body were taking care of that then you probably wouldn't have cancer. Some people really do need to cleanse is his theory and I sure feel a lot better since I started seeing him and each time I do a liver cleanse I feel better.

ARTEXASQT · July 2016

Mmej: Not sure I was "lucky", lol, but I couldn't find where to add my Ki67 of 64% and Oncotype of 30. With both of those and the fact that I'm "young" (47) and premenopausal...guess I was just "begging" for chemo! I only had to do 4 rounds of Taxotere and Cytoxan. I tolerated it really well, so I don't feel too much anxiety about the chemo. Now, the six weeks of radiation...that concerns me a little more. And the five years of Tamoxifen scares the crap out of me. I wish there were some way, any way, to get around that.

Thanks Serenity and Piper...great information. I've always drank a lot of water, so that's not a problem at all. But, I have started eating much better and moving more. Waiting to get some of my energy back so that I can really start a more rigorous exercise regimen.

MmeJ · July 2016

Thanks for the reply, ARTEXASQT. Yes, I put the word "lucky" in quotes on purpose. Yuck. I'm glad you did well. I was pre-meno at dx, too, but age 50 went into immediate and permanent menopause from my first infusion. As though the chemo wasn't weird enough!

When I was dx'd almost six years ago, they were not testing for the Ki67 percentage, and the ER PR in my pathology reports didn't have numbers, either. They used a series of one, two, or three + marks for level of positivity. No need for oncotype for me because there was no question about chemo being recommended.

I did OK with chemo and surgeries, and about 4 of the 6 weeks of bilateral rads. After that and starting Tamox ... well, I did not do well. However, I'm still here.

Be sure to take very good care of your skin - they're not foolin' when they push that. I can't see bottles of aloe gel on the shelf at the store any more without jumping a little on the inside.

Best to you as you slog through the rest of this.

Frill · July 2016

I just wanted to add in about probiotics - I take them twice a day. No mouth sores, no yeast infections, very little intestinal problems. The mouth sores will pop up if I skip too many doses.

Alpha lipoeic acid may have saved me from a lot of neuropathy issues, although I still got it at the end. I did some neurontin, then switched back.

I think with all the crap we've put our bodies through, clearing out the poison and building the immune system back up seems smart.

ChiSandy · July 2016

Yup--your urinary & intestinal systems (as well as sweat glands) do a fine job on their own of “cleansing” your body of toxins without any supplements to goose them along. But you’re not imagining things if you notice a slight weight loss after deep tissue & MLD massage--both stimulate the lymphatic system to get lymph fluid flowing again, and the excess fluid’s ultimate destination? Kidneys-->bladder-->toilet bowl. You will probably pee like a racehorse (which is why I don’t do my MLD too close to bedtime or I’d be up & down to the bathroom all night). But it’s fluid loss, which is temporary.

Momine · July 2016

IMO, plenty of water, plenty of exercise and plenty of good, nutritious food, some probiotics as well, because the chemo kills your intestinal flora, are the most effective measures to get back your body.

DaraB · July 2016

Sarahrae, you're the first person I've seen to mention Essiac tea. A friend recommended it to me when she learned of my dx. (But I think she believes more in alternative meds than complimentary.) I did a bit of research not he tea and ordered some organic loose tea. It really appears strange, with almost rocks or gravel in it, but it was from a very reputable store in SF. I haven't read anywhere of conflicting effects with traditional treatments but wondered if you had any other info re the use of the tea. Thanks for the suggestions.

MelissaDallas · July 2016

Memorial Sloan Kettering has a good site for information on herbs, etc. From their site:

Essiac has not been shown to treat or prevent cancer.

Essiac was developed in the 1920s by Rene Caisse, a Canadian nurse, and promoted as an alternative cancer treatment. It contains four botanicals: burdock root, sheep sorrel, slippery elm, and rhubarb. Laboratory studies have shown that Essiac has antioxidant and cytotoxic properties. But results are conflicting on Essiac's antiproliferative effects. Essiac prevented growth of prostate cancer cells but stimulated growth of breast cancer cells. In a study of breast cancer patients, Essiac did not improve quality of life or mood. Despite unsubstantiated claims, Essiac remains a popular anticancer therapy today.

Purported Uses

To treat cancer
Laboratory studies showed conflicting results. An observational study of breast cancer patients did not find any improvement in quality of life with Essiac.
To treat HIV and AIDS
There is no clinical evidence to support this use.
To stimulate the immune system
In laboratory studies, rhubarb, an ingredient of Essiac, suppressed activity of part of the immune system. Human studies are lacking.
As a tonic
There are no clinical data to back this claim.

Do Not Take If

You have kidney or liver problems.
You are undergoing chemotherapy (in a case report, levels of a chemotherapy drug were increased in the blood of a patient also taking Essiac, with the potential for increased toxicity.)

sarahrae · July 2016

the four core herbs in Rene Caisse's tea(Essiac) are turkey rhubarb, burdock root, sheep sorrel, and slippery elm. There are essiac type formula's that contain more than these herbs, but you want to make sure that the core 4 are in your formula. Quality and processing are probably the most important things to consider when buying essiac tea, sounds like you got yours from a good source, I purchase starwest's organic essiac blend by the pound, although I am holding out hope that I can convince someone to grow the herbs locally one day . Yes, the dried mixture is somewhat intimidating, especially the burdock root pieces, which is why the brewing directions are more of a long decoction process than a quick infusion.

I have been using it since my diagnosis(short break for the round of chemo that I did in May). I am mainly using it as an adjunct to the radiation and hormone therapy to kill cancer cells and support and protect my liver. Between my diet changes, conventional therapies, and adjust therapies i feel that my liver is working overtime and I do feel that I was neglecting it for years prior to my diagnosis. Sheep sorrel is said to kill cancer cells and possibly the burdock root too, but all support detox. It is very gentle, I take in the morning before eating anything and at night before bed. My Doc's know that I take it and have not been concerned about interactions/contraindications. The tea can be included in regimens for others diseases/disorders and was made popular by a Rene Caisse in the 20's, although folks were using it prior to that, it has been manufactured by different companies and sold in health food stores for ages.

let me know if you try it, it's worth the effort! I make a gallon at a time.

awilson · July 2016

you can do coffee enemas. I've been doing them since dx with stage iv to multiple areas in my bones. I was diagnosed in April of 2015 and since then only had 6 months of promidrinate from May to October of 2015 took tamoxifan for a few months which made me feel not so great. Since then I've been juicing everyday at least 6-8 cups daily and take a number of supplements and I hae a very strict diet. I do 3 coffee enemas every day ( used to do 5 a day) my tests show a very mild deterioration in my left hip so I think I'm doing pretty good. I am going to try the promidrinate again and some hrt drugs along with vit c iv to help with the side effects. Coffee enemas also help with pain and you feel good after doing it.

Anonymous · August 2016

I might add that bikram yoga is a great way to sweat, get weight-bearing and cardio exercise, and feel like you are cleansing your body of toxins. I did it all through all my treatments, beginning with lumpectomy. I remember tucking my surgical drain into the waistband of my yoga shorts and just being careful of the drain and tubing.

Claire in AZ

Claire_in_Seattle · August 2016

I was ahead of the curve with exercising through treatment seven years ago. We think about sweating out toxins, but we also should think about the impact of cardio and lung function. Not to mention that increasing oxygen levels throughout our system does wonders for a host of things. Exercise is also associated with a much lower risk of recurrence. This is coming out in study after study.

I was the one cycling with the drain.... And I cycled throughout chemo and radiation.

I just completed my tenth Seattle-to-Portland Bicycle Classic....ten in a row! This is 206 miles over 2 days. I am not good enough to do this in one day.

I think that the emphasis post treatment should not be on "getting rid of dead cells" because your body will take care of this through the lymphatic system, but on nourishing and taking great care of yourself. This includes all the boring stuff such as plenty of fruits and vegetables (now in season and delicious) and also a lot of protein to promote rebuilding. When I did the STP the summer post treatment, I learned just how depleted your body still is. I didn't hesitate to take a lot more ibuprofen than normal, and I also needed a lot more energy concoctions than normal because I didn't have the energy reserves.

All is back to normal now and I am fitter than ever!!!

Bone density is still in the normal range which is good because I specialize in face plants and falling on my butt getting off the chairlift when cross-country skiing! I have added running to the things I do. No matter if I am slow, because the important thing is that I cover the 5k route!

Other things I do are a routine of free weights and crunches on an exercise ball. I believe the second improves balance as does running the trails near where I live. I take a multi vitamin, calcium, and vitamin D. Plus aspirin as that is also associated with a significant risk of recurrence. That's it at this point.

One of my great pleasures in life is gourmet food, and I am an excellent cook. Below is an example of a recent dinner: eggs are local free range filled with potatoes/onions/gathered mushrooms from a run/fresh tarragon and salad. That's butter in the small tub from a local Jersey herd (the ladies live just five miles from here). Right now, I have local fresh basil and tomatoes for a caprese salad (once I get the mozzarella cheese) and fresh beans in the fridge. All the blackberries I want just for the picking. Life is good! - Claire

Anonymous · August 2016

Hello other Claire, I miss seeing your posts on these boards but I suspect you are as busy with cycling, etc. as I am with hiking, walking, bikram, weights and pilates--and we don't get here on bc.org much anymore! Ha, cycling with drains. I took my univ. students on a long hike with my post lumpx. drain tucked in my hiking shorts. They never knew. Was out in our hospital corridor doing bikram poses the day after my bmx. My doc threw me out of the hospital, wink, wink, said I was taking up valuable space for sick people. I'll toast you with the next glass of vino I have.

Hugs

Arizona Claire

Claire_in_Seattle · August 2016

Hi back Claire! Yes, I am out there living my life, but do post pix of my adventures on the exercise thread. You can find them if you look for my posts. My big news today is that I DO have a ticket for the bus back from Vancouver BC in less than 2 weeks, so can do the ride (RSVP). YAY!!! Just booked the Y in Vancouver as really nice and CHEAP. Still need to do Bellingham...hope to snag a place gratis through the nonprofit work I do. Wish me luck.

Lots more, but off to bed, hoping that they don't start power washing at 10p as they did last night. Talk about lost sleep!!!

Had leftover Chicken Franchese with vegetables and wine for dinner tonight. As I said, life is good. You are also welcome to toast the 10 for 10 Seattle-to-Portland rides. I can't believe what I still have to do this week, but will figure out how to get it all done. - Claire

Body cleanse to get rid of damaged/dead cells

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