Alternatives to SLNB?

Options
NeedToChange
NeedToChange Member Posts: 2

Hello! I am new to the forum. I have stage 1 invasive ductal carcinoma, one tumor, a little over 1 cm. I am getting ready to schedule a lumpectomy with SLNB, but am worried about the risks of the SLNB. Here is my question: are there any alternatives to SLNB? In other posts some people have mentioned PET scans or PET/CT scans. Is there a reason they cannot replace SLNB? Also, I came across this piece of information at http://breast-cancer.ca/sent-node/: Some studies have shown that CNB (core needle biopsy) of the sentinel lymph node (SLN) is as accurate as excision biopsy in detecting lymph node metastases (Damera et al., 2003; Newman et al., 2006). However, I don't see CNB of the lymph nodes mentioned anywhere else. As yet another possibility, has anyone heard of lymphatic drainage therapy being used as an alternative to SLNB? Finally, I have read that one of the indications for SLNB is a 2-5 cm tumor. So, what if it's less than 2 cm? Can SLNB be skipped altogether? I would jump on any opportunity to keep my lymph nodes. I hope that was not too many questions in one post. Thank you in advance for your insight.

Comments

  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited July 2016

    Dear NeedToChange,

    Welcome to the community and thanks for reaching our with your questions. While you are waiting for some of our members to respond you may want to check out this information on SLNB on our main site. The best of luck to you as you prepare for your surgery. Keep us posted. The MOds

  • biscuits
    biscuits Member Posts: 3,304
    edited July 2016

    Hello NeedToChange! A year ago, I was diagnosed with IDC, with a 1 1/2 cm tumor. I had a CT scan, as well as a PetScan. Neither of the scans picked up anything in the SLN's. Thank goodness, when I had the lumpectomy, that the standard of care is to take out the SLN's. Three were taken and cancer was found in one of them. Oftentimes, the area of cancer in the nodes is so microscopically small, that it might just be some cells that have traveled there and they find them when they remove the nodes. This really determines what kind of treatment is needed as you move forward. So, in my limited expertise, I would say that CT scans and PetScans are not as efficient in finding tiny areas that the cancer cells may have traveled to. You want to catch this at it's earliest stage, instead of having it overlooked and letting it become more invasive. I hope this helps...

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited July 2016

    I agree with biscuits, the most important thing is to get as accurate picture as possible so that you are neither over or under treated.

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited July 2016

    Imaging can sometimes see issues with cancer in the axillary nodes, but the problem with relying on it for anything other than clinical staging is that things need to have achieved a certain size, generally over .5cm, to be seen, or have uptake on a PET. It would be very easy to miss something in the nodes with imaging - otherwise more docs would be doing it instead of a surgical procedure. Doing SNB procedures aims to find cancer when it is smaller than what can be imaged, and also to minimize taking more nodes, such as in axillary dissection. The goal is to remove just one node, however, sometimes more than one is encased in the fat pad that collects the dye/tracer. Most have numerous nodes in the axilla - removal of the SNB is a procedure that is performed so that you don't have to remove more than has been identified as the first away from the breast. While there is some risk of lymphedema with a SNB, it is not nearly as common as it is with removal of all nodes in the axilla. The Newman cite from 2006 that I could find discussed SNB with core needle biopsy of the breast mass versus excisional, not core needle biopsy of the sentinel node itself. I have never heard of CNB on a sentinel - is it possible you mis-read? I could not find a cite for the other author for 2003. Maybe you could link them? My sentinel on the cancer side had 20 IST (isolated tumor cells), which is so small that it doesn't even qualify as a micromet, yet I had a much larger positive node further up which was not seen on either ultrasound or MRI done pre-surgically. If I had either skipped the SNB, or had a core type biopsy done, this could have been easily missed, in fact, it was missed in the operating room altogether and found later in the more thorough dissection in the lab. You can discuss eliminating the SNB with your breast surgeon since you are doing breast conserving surgery and there would be remaining breast tissue to do the SNB later, but I doubt your surgeon would consent as SNB is the standard of care, pretty much regardless of tumor size if you have an invasive breast cancer. There is a correlation between breast tumor size and positive nodes, but that is certainly not an absolute and to skip the SNB is a risk I would not personally be comfortable with. There are many who post here on BCO who had tumors less than 2cm and had positive nodes. Lymphatic drainage therapy is used after node removal to help facilitate lymphatic circulation, but I see no application for using it in place of SNB. I fully understand your concern about the SNB, all of this is scary, but doing the SNB provides valuable information about whether your cancer has spread and will provide your surgeon and oncologist with one of the tools they require to determine the next steps in your treatment. Good luck and wishing you the best!

  • muska
    muska Member Posts: 1,195
    edited July 2016

    Hi Needtochange, the risk from SLNB is very small, much smaller than from axillary nodes dissection. I think it is worth the risk when one has invasive cancer. Unfortunately, tumor size is not a good indicator of the cancer "invasiveness." If you look at my profile below you will notice that my invasive tumor was small - only 9mm - but I had macromets in axillary lymph nodes from it.

    Scanning is not reliable enough and might result in false negatives and false positives that would have to be validated by a biopsy anyway. I had CT scan and an MRI before surgery and none showed cancer in sentinel or axillary nodes.

  • NeedToChange
    NeedToChange Member Posts: 2
    edited July 2016

    Thank you, everyone, for your responses. I understand now why PET/CT scans may not be used.

    SpecialK, your reply is very detailed, I really appreciate that. As far as core needle biopsy of the lymph nodes, I have not seen the medical articles. I simply copied and pasted the line from the website, http://breast-cancer.ca/sent-node/ I just now tried to find the referenced articles, and couldn't.

    I understand that the risk of lymphedema is small. However, after reading some posts here, I also understand that it is quite real. Some people have developed this condition after having only 1 or 2 nodes removed.

    Thank you again.

Categories