Recurrence or Mets...HER2+ ER- PR-: When & Where?

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VLH
VLH Member Posts: 1,258

I've recently read that there may be a recurrence spike 12-20 months after surgery. What have members of this group experienced?

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  • marejo
    marejo Member Posts: 1,356
    edited June 2016

    I was diagnosed 11 years ago. Stage 2B. I continue to be healthy and have had no recurrence

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited June 2016

    That's wonderful news, marejo!

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited June 2016

    I hope my question didn't seem insensitive so I wanted to share why I'm asking. I'm scheduled for a bilateral mastectomy and am wondering whether it's worth the added risks, pain of the tissue expanders, inconvenience of weekly fills, the exchange surgery, etc., if a recurrence or metastasis is likely within months. I know, no crystal balls and your results may vary!

    If I'm going to back out and go the lumpectomy / radiation route, I need to decide quickly. Even now, I know changing plans will irritate the medical staff already scheduling my procedure, but it's a big decision so I'm willing to deal with that. I just wish we could know the results of the sentinel node biopsy as well as the tumor pathology and clean margins BEFORE having to make this decision. Thanks!

  • gracie22
    gracie22 Member Posts: 229
    edited June 2016

    Not sure about the spike in mets, but my guess would be that sometimes patients who are presumed to be stage 1 or 2 are not scanned at the time of diagnosis, or for those who were scanned, the cancer outside of the breast was simply not big enough to see at that point. A year or so later if they are scanned and something is found it's likely it was brewing from the get go, just not detected. If you have not already done so and your insurance will allow, get a PET scan (they typically cover "eyes to thighs") and a brain MRI with contrast. The bar for scanning is usually set pretty low for HER+ patients. Of course it won't find tiny mets, but at least gives you some peace of mind if all clear.

    If you opt for the BMX, have you considered going direct to implants to avoid the expander/fill stuff? You mentioned on another thread that your breasts were large; I was in a similar situation and was going to skip reconstruction, but the PS I used offered the direct to implant surgery when I discussed my reluctance to get involved with expander method. He did the surgery along with the BS and explained that if the BS felt that more tissue/skin needed to be removed than expected during the BMX, he would have to use expanders. I asked him not to proceed with expanders if the direct to implants was not feasible, and he agreed; we wrote it in on the surgical consent form. As it turned out, I had enough skin to do it; it helped that I wanted to go much smaller than my disproportionately large breasts. The surgery went fine, but I unfortunately developed a hospital acquired staph infection in the healthy breast and had to have the implant removed a few months post surgery. Antibiotics worked for a while, but eventually could not control the infection. The cancer side is fine. I have not decided whether I will try a redo as the infection was very scary and i have since learned how unfortunately common infection is. However, I did not have bad post surgical pain; it seemed less traumatic than the descriptions of the expander experience. It makes sense; with the expander, the skin stretching is painful. That doesn't happen with the direct to implants, but I gather from my reading here that it's less common. If not for the damn infection (the infectious disease doc I saw said it was likely caused by a contaminated surgical instrument due to the tissue depth of the infection), I would have been satisfied with the surgery. The outcome would have been the same anyway; that type of infection can't heal while a foreign body is involved (implant or expander) so either one would have had to go. At least I did not have to worry about fills or swap surgery on the other side. The other thing I learned was that I like having the implants more than prosthetics. I did have a couple of months to enjoy my smaller, matching breasts and found they looked good in clothes and it was a relief for my neck and shoulders. The one prosthetic is a nuisance, but not sure I am up for any more surgery.

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited June 2016

    Thanks for writing, Gracie. I'm so sorry that you developed the infection. Neither plastic surgeon mentioned the direct-to-implant route. I'm wondering if it's because I lost 100 pounds so the existing tissue is quite thin while presumably skin newly stretched from the chest wall would be sturdier? I know the weight loss was a factor when the first PS discussed lumpectomy with a reduction; that and the changes radiation can cause on the cancer side.

    I wanted a scan, but since nothing showed in the lymph nodes on the sonogram, the oncology surgeon didn't think insurance would pay for it. Ironically, the MO was going to get one as a baseline if I went the chemo / targeted therapy route. This is going to be a financial disaster as it is so I certainly don't want any procedures that aren't covered by insurance.

    Based on another thread, I've been doing a lot of reading about how the surgery itself may provoke the initial spike. That's not very comforting since I'm not doing the systemic treatments.

    Sending healing thoughts your way...

  • gracie22
    gracie22 Member Posts: 229
    edited June 2016

    I would think that the stretching would cause even more skin delicacy(?) I also think that not all PSs are comfortable with all procedures. Most women don't have a ton of skin to work with post mast, so expanders are the norm, and PSs that aren't used to doing straight to implant don't offer it. The PS I saw does them fairly frequently, but always with the caveat that expanders will be needed if the BS opts to take more tissue/skin during the BMX than originally estimated. And true, use of radiation affects the decision also. I think maybe it's best not to get too hung up on the mets question right now. Your tumor is small, there is no evidence of hot nodes. Proceed how you would if mets were not on the horizon. My own gut on it is that mastectomy (either on the breast with cancer alone or both) would give me more peace of mind. The thought of long term mammos and scans post lumpectomy would not be appealing to me, especially with the HER2 situation. And if your node biopsy is clear, you can then skip radiation completely. But that is just my reaction, and as has been stated over and over in the forums, these are extremely personal decisions.

  • ElaineTherese
    ElaineTherese Member Posts: 3,328
    edited June 2016

    I agree with gracie that you should proceed as if mets were not on the horizon. I would note, however, that mastectomies and reconstruction produce more complications than lumpectomies and rads. But, gracie is also correct that these are very personal decisions.

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited June 2016

    Thanks for the continued support, ladies.

    Gracie, I think perhaps because the chest skin hasn't been stretched while the breast tissue has, it would be more durable. Does that make sense?

    I'm so torn. I wish I could set aside the worry about mets when my diagnosis is so recent, ElaineTherese, but it's constantly on my mind.


  • gracie22
    gracie22 Member Posts: 229
    edited July 2016

    It's natural that you are worried about it, and a bit of that anxiety will always be there, but it is especially hard in the early days and that is where you are right now. Though I sometimes take a break from these boards when feeling overwhelmed by all the permutations of a BC diagnosis, I have found that reading about how other women cope, particularly those with metastatic disease, has been comforting. So many just keep on keeping on, maintain a big picture outlook and inspire me to try and stay in the present and do my best to enjoy what I can and get through this with as much dignity as I can muster.That comes with time; things will settle down a bit when you make your decision about surgery and go from there. You will likely never feel totally comfortable with any treatment decision (they are all so huge and offer no certainties), but it does get better. While we get no promises about our physical well being, your mind is the one thing that can actually expand and improve through this whole thing. Facing a serious illness sucks, but it puts a lot of life's nonsense into proper perspective, and I say this as a person who is about as far from Pollyanna as anyone can get. These boards have helped me get on with living as best I can.

  • VLH
    VLH Member Posts: 1,258
    edited July 2016

    Thank you, gracie22! I always appreciate your commonsense perspective. :-)

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