Has Anyone Chosen Monitoring Instead of Surgery?
I'm so glad to have found this site as my own doctor doesn't have the knowledge to be of much help in relation to recommending next steps. Following a core biopsy, I was recently diagnosed with both atypical intraductal epithelial atypia and atypical lobular hyperplasia. The surgeon is recommending a wedge excision and he confirmed it would definitely be disfiguring. If it's a matter of life versus death, of course I will do whatever is necessary to choose life. My concern is that with the biopsy results and diagnosis, they can't say for certain that it is cancer. If so, it is at the very initial stage. But it's also possible that it's not cancer. There are risks to any surgery and frankly I prefer not to have surgery if there are other options, especially with all the research I've done that seems to show the medical community is not in agreement that surgery is always necessary in this type of case. I asked my doctor for a referral for a 2nd opinion so I could get a risk assessment, but she insists I have to provide her with a name of the doctor I want to be referred to. I tried talking to Sunnybrook to get a doctor's name but was told they don't have time to book appointments for 2nd opinions. Has anyone else received the same diagnosis and decided against surgery? If so, what kind of monitoring are you having? Also, does anyone have the name of a specialist who could provide a 2nd opinion and/or a risk assessment? Any insight from people who have been through this would be welcome. Thank you.
Comments
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Hi there. Im a little confused. Why does your present doc have to refer you to a second doc? Is it an insurance matter? You have the right to get a second opinion with whomever you want, don't you? I feel like Im missing something. Are you being seen by a breast specialist?
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dtad - Thank you for the reply. I saw the surgeon after my biopsy and he told me the diagnosis and recommended surgery. He did not say there may be any alternative options so I believed surgery was the only option. I asked about risk and he said he couldn't tell me one way or the other. When I got home and started doing some research online, I read a number of articles from published medical journals and studies and I learned that surgery is not always necessary for this diagnosis. Some in the medical community think that doctors are too quick to opt for surgery when monitoring may also be an option. It depends on your specific risk. I went back to my family doctor to request a referral for a 2nd opinion, because as I understand it, a referral from your doctor is necessary. My family doctor is willing to provide the referral, but she said I have to provide the name of the doctor I want to be referred to. I don't know what doctor to ask for. I tried Sunnybrook, but they said they don't have time to book an appointment for a 2nd opinion/risk assessment. I'm disappointed that my doctor was not more helpful or proactive, but I guess it's up to me to find the name of another doctor or I won't get the referral. I just want to have enough information about my specific risk and whether close monitoring is an option for me instead of surgery. I would also like to know what exactly close monitoring means.
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The only people I've heard of who choose monitoring instead of surgery are those with pure DCIS and LCIS. Once it is invasive you must have surgery to get the cancer out. Not sure what your situation is from the description you provided. Good luck!
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In about 20% of cases where ADH or ALH are diagnosed via core or needle biopsy there is invasive cancer found on the excisional biopsy. Without having the surgery there is not way to know if you have invasive cancer or not.
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Hi imfine:
It sounds like so far the pathology findings of concern are: "atypical intraductal epithelial atypia" (an atypia) and "atypical lobular hyperplasia" (ALH). Please advise if that is not correct.
A further excisional or surgical biopsy is being recommended to exclude the possibility of malignancy in the vicinity -- which is a risk as noted by MelissaDallas.
Seeking a second opinion review of the pathology findings (independent review of actual slides), along with a second opinion from a breast surgeon regarding the proposed surgery is not unreasonable, especially as atypia is a finding where studies have shown a lower degree of agreement between pathologists, see e.g.,
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2203798
Based on your location and reference to Sunnybrook, I take it you are in Ontario, Canada, contacted Sunnybrook and were advised they do not have time for second opinions (presumably in a high risk scenario?). I wonder if this would be true if you had a specific referral to a breast surgeon at Sunnybrook (versus cold call). . . In any event, you have requested information about breast surgeons at another Ontario, Canada breast center, preferably a center of excellence. Hopefully, someone will come along.
If you do not receive more replies here, you may wish to start a thread in the Canadian forum. It might be helpful to include ALH and Ontario, Canada in the title of a new thread.
Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer: https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/55
Best,
BarredOwl
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Yorkiemom, MelissaDallas - Thank you and I agree that if I knew for certain it was invasive, I would have surgery. The surgeon did present this as an unknown and it is a possibility, but......I guess I'm really not believing that it will be cancer. I know it's silly, but I feel like I've never been healthier in my whole life, so I'm having a hard time thinking I will be one of the 20% that Melissa referenced. I'd like to talk to a doctor who will give me answers about my own specific risk. Is this urgent? Is there time to 'wait and watch' and see if there's any change? If there was invasive, how quickly would it become apparent? How quickly would it change? I need to talk to a doctor who I can trust, and not a doctor who isn't fully forthcoming and willing to advise that there are options, and then will present the risks associated with those options.
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Thank you BarredOwl. You have a perfectly correct grasp of the scenario (pathology, location, etc.). I appreciate your recommendation.
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Imfine, you absolutely must have a doctor you trust and believe in! None of us here can help you much with medical advice. All we can do is relate our limited information and anecdotal experiences. Best wishes!
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Most women diagnosed with breast cancer felt absolutely fine and had absolutely no symptoms. Zero. Zilch. MAYBE a lump. Lots of them not even that. Often it is just found by a slight abnormality on a mammogram. Many of those women were doing "everything right," were otherwise perfectly healthy and felt great. Frequently there is no indication on imaging that invasive cancer is present, so "monitoring" doesn't necessarily work until it is far advanced.
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I think finding a doctor that can accurately calculate your risk is important. I was told a geneticist would do that for me and my geneticist was very unhelpful, rude, and didn't calculate anything. It was my breast surgeon that finally gave me my risk based on family history. LCIS is not factored into it. That was really important for me to wrap my head around the choices I was being given. The breast surgeon was mysecond opinion appointment. That was really the most valuable piece of information I got from that appointment.
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I had no symptoms whatsoever before a mammogram showed an irregular mass in my breast. Heck, I my doctor even did a manual breast exam only 3 weeks prior and never felt it. It turned up almost under my arm, very high on the breast. It was about as big as a cherry, so obviously it had been there awhile, a few years I'd estimate. They just didn't catch that bit of breast in the mammograms. My cancer, although small, turned out to be a rather aggressive one which required chemo. I'm glad I didn't wait around until it got bigger. For me, waiting could have been very dangerous.
I think you must find a breast surgeon who is more responsive to you. It doesn't sound like there is a big rush to do it, but you need to get all your questions answered.
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Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to share their insight and experience. I sincerely appreciate it. I'm a little more frightened now, having heard that it's possible to be doing everything 'right' and feel perfectly fine but still have cancer, but I guess it's not a bad thing to be afraid, since that is a good reminder of the seriousness of the potential consequences of making a bad or irresponsible decision. I also appreciate the encouragement to keep trying to get as much information and become as informed as possible. Thank you to all for sharing your knowledge.
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Hi imfine:
For second opinions in Ontario, Canada, in addition to Sunnybrook, Princess Margaret is often mentioned. You can use the key word search field to find mention of it.
BarredOwl
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BarredOwl - appreciate your feedback. I just reviewed some of the topics in the Canadian forum thread you referenced too and there's a lot of great information here. Thanks!
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