why take chemotherapy?
Comments
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My husband had stage IV bowel cancer 9 years ago and he is still alive - WHY? - chemo!!! I get quite angry when people bag chemo - do you realise you could be influencing someone to not have it and cause their death - leave it up to the individual and their doctors.
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I am glad chemo kept your husband alive. It killed a friend of mine years ago and my neighbor's brother who went aggressive on his colon cancer.
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Twinky, What you are sharing about Bayer is true and dispicable. Would you share your story with me? I see you had a cancer like mine and the two years later another. What happened? Did you do chemo for the first one? I believe we can use food and plants to heal, but I also want to integrate with man made medicine. I am afraid. I am newly diagnosed and see the MO today.
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Cancerpicked, Ty Bollinger is an accountant, not a doctor. When I was first diagnosed, someone sent me some book he had written. I actually read it. Bollinger is not credible.
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Cancerpicked, you wrote further up: "The docuseries had a few stories about women w Breast cancer that were able to cure their breast cancer with the tea;" It is very unlikely that anyone ever cured a cancer with herbal tea. These kinds of stories are typically mistaken somewhere. For example, someone has stage 0 breast cancer, has surgery and the cancer does not recur. After surgery they drank the tea. They then think the cancer was "cured" by the tea. Fact is, stage 0 only rarely recurs.
Rick Simpson of hemp oil fame used the oil because of chronic pain. Pot can work very well as pain relief for some people, so that makes sense. He then got a basal cell skin cancer. This is the least dangerous kind of skin cancer. He had the cancer surgically removed, but a few days later, when he took the band-aid off, he thought it looked all red and bad, so he decided to put some hemp oil on it. A week later the skin was healed. A miracle! Some time later, he got another spot on his skin. This time he did not go to the doctor (so we have no way of knowing if it was another basal cell caner or maybe just a spider bite). In any event, he decided to put hemp oil on it and it went it away. That is the basis for his theory that the oil heals cancer. Here is a full interview where he explains all of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNyOLRQx6Vc He starts with the chronic pain and explains how he started making and using the oil, at 4:55, he starts the explanation of the cancers.
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The truth is we have no idea what works for one or does not work for another. I skipped the chemo and anti hormonal tx and after 4.5 years i'm ok. IF I did do the chemo, It would have been hailed as my life saver. I'm most likely taking a bigger risk not doing the AI or tamox. Time will tell. but in the meantime I'm not blaming my estrogen alone. I take lots of supplements including DIM to help balance hormones and get rid of the bad hormones. I also adopted a low calorie diet (that I learned from You Momine a year or so back. Thanx.) If I do move on to stage IV will the lack of chemo be blamed? WE, doctors included, DON'T KNOW!! According to my first MO I should be dead. Ha.
xoxMaureen
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Chef, that is completely true, and you are probably right about the AIs as well. My own perspective is a little different, because I had neo-adjuvant chemo (as well as adjuvant). The tumor was big, really big, and easily palpable. After 2 chemos, it was half the size and in spite of being somewhat tired from the chemo, overall, I felt better than I had in a long time. Cancer itself is a huge burden on the body. It is essentially a parasite, so it makes sense that it wears you down.
Glad the diet change is working out for you. It is definitely a good idea to stay slim and to stay active. Both have been shown to protect against recurrence. It is probably the most powerful alternative "protocol" there is.
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Cancer 'can't' be cured? I disagree. Big pharma can't cure cancer? I agree.
Ty Bollinger an accountant? - Who cares...he's only interviewing a whole bunch of doctors about cancer. I guess these aren't the doctors we should listen to? Just those other doctors that recommend chemo??
Chemo cures tumors? Some cancers, maybe, but new studies are showing chemo doesn't touch the breast cancer stem cells...the implications of that are quite nasty.. Too much research to post here, if you're actually interested you'll do the research yourself.
Medical marijuana doesn't work? Then why do we have hundreds of thousands of cannabinoid receptors throughout our bodies, and in our brains?? Do you even know what cannabinoids are, before you slam Rick Simpson? Do you know how many actual people have been cured of their cancer from medical marijuana? Or are their stories not worthy of your attention....only the stories of those who say chemo healed them?
What bias! Science is science, yet so many of you focus not on that point, but picking apart the way the noun isn't in the right place, or how I used the wrong adverb.
We 'know' cancer will come back because chemo only gives us 5% chance of living passed five years. It's not a great standard of care. Judging from your comments, chemo is helping with way more cancer out there than the actual statistics say.
The aggression you display towards me, mimics the cancer you are supposedly trying to fight. That's quite telling.
I have every right to have an opinion, and to share it. I'm using my own information, my own experience.
Science is science. Chemo is carcinogenic. It causes birth defects. But it helps us live longer, once we poison our bodies to just a certain degree?? That, to me, is pure rubbish, and isn't even supported by common sense.
Can anyone discredit what the 50+ MD's, PhD's, and DO's discussed on 'Quest for the Cure - The Truth about Cancer't? When they talk about how harmful chemo is, and is only there to provide profits to a medical system that needs us to be sick to continue making money?? Do it, and I'll listen to you. Find me some evidence of other doctors discrediting their 50+ colleagues interviewed on Quest for the Cure....
Can anyone tell me big pharma's not earning billions of dollars off of cancer treatments? While you believe they have your best interests at heart, you lovingly polish the halo of big pharma as they make their way to the bank year after year. Of course you don't think cancer can be cured. Big pharma has told you so, so it must be true. Pure uninformed rubbish.
Common sense is completely lost here. I give up. (now just watch all the comments on my personal opinion here...rather than on information above that should be what's addressed)
If anyone wants to talk further, in a calm, well informed manner that isn't riddled with fear, please just message me. Like I said in an earlier post, I would support anyone who chose to take chemo, if that is their choice, nor would I judge them, or try to make them second guess their choice. I would respect they had done their research, and settled on what - in their heart - felt right for them, after (hopefully) making themselves aware of all their options. Otherwise it's not really a 'choice' now, is it? How many of your chemo lovers would do the same? If so, your graciousness in these posts is of a kind that I find unrecognizeable. My bad.
Twinkly out.
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I think every single one of us would admit that the current standard-of-care in breast cancer treatment needs to improve. I don't think that I'm speaking out-of-turn when I say that NONE OF US want to have chemotherapy and/or radiation. However, I am one of the many who do take issue with blatant medical quackery, especially where cancer treatment is concerned. I want to see cold, hard, scientific fact. I want to see statistics proving benefit. I could give a rat's ass if it's conventional or alternative, I want to see the proof behind the claim and, no, anecdote, heresay and opinion are not enough for me to risk my life.
Believe you me, as someone on this board once said (and I've quoted this before), "... if honey badger pee was proven to be a cure for cancer, I'd be first in line to drink it..." Personally, I'd love to see something - anything - less toxic than chemotherapy be proven to be as effective as chemotherapy, but until there is bona fide clinical proof that stands up to rigorous scientific scrutiny or there is a massive breakthrough in alternative-based research, then I feel there is no choice for me than the tried-and-true. However, that doesn't mean that I've closed my mind to the alternative nor does it mean that I'm riddled with fear or biased. What it DOES mean is that I read everything published - both in conventional medicine and alternative - very carefully to sort out the hyperbole.
And I continue to hope that someone, somewhere will hit on something that WORKS. Because, gawd knows, we really need it. -
You did state over and over (before you deleted the words) that only those who did chemo had not done their own reseach and did only did chemo out of fear. BUT, of course, you have deleted/edited/changed those words so no one can now see how there was NO respect for anyone who had actually done with their own research."The aggression you display towards me mimics the cancer you are trying to fight". The aggression you display towards all who have done their research is, at the best, saying that only you are capable of knowing what ALL must do. Your many undocumented 'statements' that when you were called on them were deleted. Your continual statements that anyone who had done Chemo had not done any research. We are not all incapable of doing our own research and knowing what is correct for us, individually. So do (or don't do) whatever you want - it's your choice for whatever reason but don't try to tell everyone else how 'inompetent' we are because we have done OUR OWN research!
"in a calm, well informed manner that isn't riddled in fear". That says a lot about what you believe. That no one who does not follow your dictates, has different thoughts/ideas is incapable of being " calm, well informed" or not "riddled in fear". " Common sense" was lost with the OP was placed in the Chemo Forum instead of where it belonged - "Alternative".
I do wish you the best and that you will learn that you are not the only one that has/seeks knowledge and it is not your 'job' to tell everyone what they should do.
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Twinkly, I really don't understand what this statement is based upon: "We 'know' cancer will come back because chemo only gives us 5% chance of living passed five years. It's not a great standard of care. Judging from your comments, chemo is helping with way more cancer out there than the actual statistics say."
That's obviously refuted by many members/posters on this board, much less the millions of women not involved here.
And no, I did not do chemo so I'm not trying to defend my choice, simply pointing out a woefully inaccurate statement which might lead others astray should they take it as fact.
Nor do I understand your apparent anger towards those who disagree with you in even the slightest or whose experience has differed from yours. I hope you can find the serenity you seem to be missing.
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I believe in alternative medicine because it has worked for me and my family very well over the last 15 years or so that I have been doing research, but if I break a leg or I'm having a heart attack I'm headed to the ER. It's not so clear cut with cancer. I do believe some people cure their cancers by natural means, but there are plenty who do everything right from a natural standpoint and still progress and die (just like conventional). There are too many variables and not enough proof to trust that you will personally be one of the lucky ones, no matter what you do.
I hate the idea of chemo. It goes against everything I believe in, but I would have had it if my cancer statistics would have warranted it. I'm so grateful that we have things like the Oncotype now that allowed me to skip it. The drug that was recommended for me instead is a 30 year old generic that no one is getting rich off of, and there is so much new research being done looking for ways to help women avoid chemo. Regardless of what may have been true decades ago, I just can't believe there is a plot by Big Pharma to suppress a cure for cancer at this time. They will get plenty rich off of the new targeted treatments that are slowly proving to be more effective and less damaging. Change takes time. We all came into the game a little too early, but we're already seeing people right here on these boards who are benefitting from this transformation in treatment philosophy, including me.
I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the middle. I take my tamoxifen faithfully every single day, but at the same time I work very hard at changing the environment in my body that enabled the cancer to grow. Still, I know I can recur at any time. I look forward to the day when every woman with BC can have complete confidence in the path she has chosen, and I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that none of us really know.
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Kicks
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I think everyone can agree we want better treatment options and of course less risky treatments, a real cure.
We need to keep pushing for better treatments and not settle for what is available now.
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Meow I don't think there is a single person that loves dumping poison and radiation in their body. But depending on your risks for recurrence, chemo and or rads may be a better choice. If I was let's say in my 70s then maybe I would bag chemo and rads with my stats and take a gamble on the alternative stuff that sounds great but we aren't there yet. But I'm 51, consider myself young and if chemo gives me several years, great. If I die soon from cancer then blame chemo and rads? Maybe maybe not. For every type of treatment and not just cancer there is always for some it doesn't work or make sense. All of them. I had a 7 cm tumour. That alone was considered huge so it became a no brainer for me. In a weird way I'm glad I wasn't a small one to where I have to really wonder should I shouldn't I.
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That is very true that 'someday' there will be better TX - the sooner the better. However, modern medicine has come so far in the last few decades - not just with TX for the different types of BC (which are quite different) but with so MANY other health issues. Lumping all types, stages, grades, ER/PR and HER2 status, genetic makeup, age/health at the time of DX all come into play. Also our 'outlook' on 'life'.I was 63 when DXd (now 69). IF I should find out 'tomorrow' my IBC has recurred - I am ready to fight in any way available/offered to me. Chemo has not killed me - nor has it compromised my QOL. (I intend to live into my mid-late 90's as very active woman - I had great examples to try to follow - 1 Grandmother and 3 Great Grandmother who all lived to at least 95 as active/contributing women long before the modern meds we have today.). Of course, I could get hit by a meteor or be drawn up into a tornado (or so many other 'things), which can not be know will or will not happen, tonight, tomorrow or weeks/months/years from today.
I am very much into using folk medicine when possible and I have had some of it work better than 'modern' medicine at times. I have been in the back country when I had to fall back on my knowledge of folk medicine for a time.
OP (twinkle) - I did my research and have never been "riddled with fear" for myself. I do hope that you will learn that you are on the only one who is capable of researching what is appro to each.
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To all, I once wrote we fight this individually, together... though are paths are different, our mission is the same.
I wish they could change treatment language though... they only speak in terms of "survival". What about living?
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ElleD
exactly.....
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The only time I felt "riddled with fear" was when they told me I had Stage III BC, and at least ten level I and level II positive lymph nodes. I had neoadjuvant chemo that reduced my tumor by 92%, and took care of all but one lymph node. If I had refused chemo - which never occurred to me - I'd be dead.
It baffles me that women will ingest "alternative" treatments that have not been researched or proven in any scientific way, but will refuse the treatment (chemo) that has been researched and proven again and again. That is not to say that complementary treatments don't have a place, but I feel that the docs, for whom treating cancer is their life's work, in this case are better informed than the average patient. Is the system perfect? No. But I never felt that any doc I saw was in it for the money, or playing out some drug company's agenda.
My PCP, whom I respect enormously, said to me shortly after dx - Do what the oncologist tells you to do - this is not a time for patients to make any major decisions.
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This is the alternative forum. So, it should not be a surprise nor should it be a concern that alternative treatments are discussed and recommended here AND that conventional medicine is not popular or at best viewed with suspicion.
I don't think that posters (like Twinkly) create a positive atmosphere to discuss alternative treatment, especially when lobbing half-truths and using misleading/false studies to muddy the waters.
And pennysgal - I'm glad that doing exactly what your oncologist suggested worked for you. If I had done exactly what my first oncologist wanted, I'd probably be dead. Don't assume that everyone had or will have the same experience as you.
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BCO separates complementary from alternative medicine because of the fights that break out, when really they should be one topic. Most people who believe in alternative medicine do not completely eschew conventional medicine. Much of what is considered alternative at this time does have some scientific basis, and is really just new, and will eventually make it into the mainstream. There is a lot being done in Europe, for example, that would be considered quackery here. Is everything we do in the US right and everything they do wrong? Of course not.
As I said before, the answer is going to lie somewhere in the middle. There is no reason to argue about it when we can be calmly discussing it and coming to a greater understanding. I personally have a "can't hurt, might help" philosophy - as long as there is some evidence it works, and it's not likely to hurt me or bankrupt me, then I'm open minded to it. Whether I'll try it or not myself depends on the circumstances. Everyone has to set that standard for themselves because there are conflicting studies on everything. There is no need to criticize someone else's choices because they drew the line in a different place. We're all flying by the seat of our pants.
I will respectfully say that I do not believe it is great advice to blindly listen to any doctor without doing your own research and making your own decisions. The wide range of conflicting information that women on these boards have received from their MOs is proof enough for me that they can't all be right.
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Solfea nailed it for me.
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I took conventional medicine, because I was scared that if I didn't and relied solely on alternative therapies then it may not have worked and I wouldn't be here today. Timing was critical and I didn't want to wait. I was 34 yrs old at DX. We hold more confidence in conventional medicine, because there is tons of research and trials supporting it does/can work, not to mention the 1000s of survivors.
I wish that alternative treatments had the same, but unfortunately it does not, because trials etc are all financed by drug companies that have no interest in making treatments that could potentially be available (diet/food/plant derived) to everyone at a much lower cost and 100% natural.
In essence some chemo drugs are originally derived from plants eg the Pacific yew tree and pactaxel, but they have then been harnessed by man and chemicals.
It's a sad reality that there could in fact be a 100% plant based alternative to chemo out there, but no drug company is willing to finance it and until that change happens not many patients are quite rightly willing to wait around and find out. -
This is a Alternative Forum yes - BUT thus tread was started in the Chemo Forum by the OP.
What is so sad is that the OP did NOT post her original statements in the Alternative Forum where 'it' does belong - not in the Chemo Forum to scare those who are new to their DX and seeking information about proven TX. Someone's tirade that modern medicine will not help with TX but will kill us/them is not factual.. Still not sure what she says is supposed to 'cure' all as there has been nothing said that is the 'cure' according to Twinkle. Other than marijuana.
It also takes away any 'crediability' someone might be able to establish when the outright non-facts that posted when pointed out, they were immediately 'edited/changed' removing what is not provable in fact. Then when over and over, it was stated (by her) that no one who has done Chemo had done research - WRONG! Once those were (m definately am quite capable of doing research (as are most) and did! Alas, as is her modus operandi, ALL of these statements/words have been deleted because she cannot stand by her statements that only she is capable/does research.
'Something natural' does not mean that is safe for consumption by humans (or animals). The first ones that come to mind are deadly nightshade (related to tomatoes/potatoes), lantana, oleander (even the smoke if burned), camas, foxglove (it contains digitals), are but a few. Arsenic, uranium are also 'natural' in the ground in some areas. There are so many more 'natural thangs' that are deadly.
Taxol is derived from the bark of the Pacific Yew. It grows in the Great Pacific NW and because it is the bark that is peeled off of it so that is 'naturel/plant' based. This practice is having a lot impact on the native population in the area. There are also some European Yews bark is being used/worked with. Willow bark can be used as 'asprin' if need to. Penicillin is a mold that grows on bread. I could go on and on about so many plants and other 'stuff' with healing properties.
Yes I do use 'folk medicine' when I need to but modern medicine is great and there is consistency in the levels as opposed to using plants.
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Wait. I just noticed in Twinkly's sig. She ended chemo after only 2 rounds of 6 in 2008 and came back stage IV in 2013? Of course we can't say for sure if it wouldn't have happened but not completing chemo and then dissing it at stage IV doesn't quite make sense to me. I guess it would have more pow if the chemo was completed and it still came back. Who knows but just seems odd someone is so angry at chemo without having completed the course to see if maybe stage IV wouldn't have happened if perservered? Who knows but it just seems rather odd to me.
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I mean no disrespect to anyone...but as a newbe in search of the chemo quest for righteousness... for myself, I came here to learn of others decisions and reasons for them. I have learned a lot here...but it is very disheartening to see all the negativity.
No need to be hurtful, toxic and unforgiving... Cancer has already done that to us.
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I'm glad someone else looked in 'her' Profile . Of course, now that it has been pointed out what is posted there that does not go with all that has been posted. According to the Profile, the first DX was DCIS in 2005. Then in 2008, a DX of IDC. Then in 2013, Stage IV. Stage IV for 4 yrs without any TX? Makes now sense!
Also - originally joined the site iin 2007, has only posted 125 times in 9 years? 14 of those posts being on this thread alone. (11 of the 14 were 'edited/changed for 'whatever' reason). Her OP was edited 4 days (the last time) after it was originally posted - deleting a lot that was undocumented at all. It's gone now so - - - it is not there anymore for anyone to actually see (as is so much of her tirades - how no one who had done Chemo had done any research and we are "riddled with fear", etc. WRONG!
I hope that this entire thread is deleted as it has no positive impact/information for those on either 'side'.
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What does "quest for righteousness" mean? I don't understand that!"hurtful, toxic, unforgiving . That is how this thread was started in the Chemo Forum. The OP has deleted/'edited' so much out that you (or anyone) will never be able to see as it is all gone. 'She wrote over and over again that any of us who had done Chemo had NEVER done any research and that we were just " riddled with fear" because 'she' knew more than any of us (according to her) as she had 'researched' but because we made our own educated decisions - not what 'she' says.
According to her, Chemo will kill. Well, that's not a fact. I am still not 'dead' 6+ yrs post TX.
Seek information that gives you the information you Ade seeking. Be careful not to be 'suckered' into anyone's game. This is after all the internet and not everyone is what they try to pretend.
Best wishes on your personal journey.
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I was hoping people wouldn't get nasty on this thread. My sole purpose is to find others that are screaming for better treatment not be critical of people's intentions. I am not trying to convince anyone to take one treatment over the other. I just want progress to continue on a cure.
You would not expect so much anger. I believe whole heartedly that negative angry feeling and stress is adverse to good health so knock off the anger.
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