why take chemotherapy?
Comments
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Twinkly you are assuming the women here have not done their research. Ihave a feeling you don't want feedback that doesn't agree with you though so I will move on.
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I get what you're saying Twinkly, yes..we need to work out the root cause in so much that it doesn't happen again, but at the same time chemotherapy does/can work for BC. My friend had a similar diagnosis to me a 8cm tumour in the breast, which was reduced to 1cm after two chemo sessions. Does it make sense to use fire with fire? not always, but it does save lives. Is it so simple to try to eradicate all the toxic things in our lives to prevent cancer..if only. Some people are predisposed to it, have a heightened risk..with the Brca gene or similar. Yes chemo is brutal, it's not logical to attack the immune system when it's already down with cancer, but it's the best we've got at the moment. I think if you can endure it and at the same time try to rectify the root cause, surely we are winning!
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Lottemarine - thanks for your words. My sister and I have the Chek 2 gene mutation. The first words out of our MOs mouth when he read the results to us were: "Now you know why you got breast cancer and had to endure treatment."
I firmly believe there is a balance...standard treatment coupled with doing our very best to remain healthy. That is all we can do.
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Twinkly,
If you actually believe what you wrote, you need to get an education.
This is what you wrote, "And if you can handle even more of the truth, understand that big pharma made WW2 possible, actually funded Hitler so he could invade Poland in 1939, which started WW2. Big Pharma created a five mile long compound at Auschwitz....using slave labor to build it, and using prisoners of war to test their drugs on. They even created the gas used in the gas chambers and were prosecuted at the Nuremberg trials. Many were given prison sentences they didn't have to serve more than 4 or 5 years of, and these war criminals were later made the CEO's of Bayer, and other well known pharmaceutical companies. Eventually, with their untold wealth, they created the monopoly of the pharmaceutical industry as we know it today"
Big Pharma funding Hilter and starting WWII? Statements like this cause me to not consider your information on other issues as less than reliable. The only part I know is true is the containers of poison gas produced for the concentration camps by German chemists, who were later executed for the production of the poison gas, zyklon B. Do your research.. The rest is not supportable.
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Thank you kayb.
Motheroffour....my information is from transcripts of the Nuremberg trials. Easy to find and verify online. Please don't call me a liar until you've checked your facts.
Here's another link... http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/economics/igfarben.html
Another thing I didn't write about was Rockefeller, who owned Standard Oil, threatened to cut off supply to the US troops if they bombed the five mile long factory at Auschwitz. All of this is in the trial transcripts.
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More alternative treatments to consider:
Here is a free book to download from the internet, called Victory over Cancer http://www.victory-over-cancer.org/ from Dr. Rath's website.
Here is more alternative cancer therapy information from Dr. Rath's site http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/cance... Dr. Rath has a new Micronutrient protocol that thousands in Europe are taking to HEAL their cancer. Dr. Rath has suffered over 100 lawsuits in 15 years to shut him up....but none have been successful because science itself has proved his treatments and his methodologies (whereas chemo has nothing like his success rate to brag about).
Here is the facebook page for the Dr. Rath Foundation....lots more information here... https://www.facebook.com/DrRath.Foundation/?ref=hl
Also, Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski MD, PhD, has the Burzynski Clinic in Austin Texas. He has healed, yes HEALED incurable cancers using Antineoplastons...the missing link between proteins and amino acids in cancer patients. He's harrassed constantly by lawyers from the FDA, lawsuit after lawsuit, to shut him up. Another story I saw on Quest for the Cure was how a 4 year old child was told by several allopathic doctors he would die from a rare brain tumor. Dr. Gaston Cornu-Labat MD told the story of how the FDA required an application be made on behalf of this boy so they could treat him at Dr. Burzynski's clinic. But then the FDA proceeded to put the IND application (Investigational New Drug) on 'hold' (when the child was told he had only weeks to live) stating the risks of the treatment outweighed the benefit. The treatment Dr. Burzynski had could have saved his life, as it had already saved the lives of other children with inoperable brain tumors. You puzzle out that one. Other terminal children have been approved to take the new drug, but are legally required to take chemo and radiation first. For another child, this was too much and the autopsy actually stated the child died from intoxication from chemo drugs.
Today, epigenetics play an important role in alternative cancer care. Look into what it's all about.
Dr. Jonathan Wright MD speaks about how medical schools teach doctors nothing about nutrition...only how to prescribe pharmaceutical drugs.
Interestingly enough, when DuPont received it's patent for polyester, the witch hunt began to kill the cannabis plant's AMAZING reputation. All for money - to cut out the competition.
Dr. Boris Grinblat discovered cancer can't take heat as well as normal cells. Saunas, particularly infrared saunas can be very helpful, as another natural treatment to include in your other natural treatments arsenal, to cure cancer.
And the list of other natural therapies goes on and on and on and on and on.
That's why I'm asking you to do your research. Understand chemo is not the only choice. That is simply all I'm asking you to consider. But unless you do the research for yourself, and digest it for yourself, and then understand what you are and aren't willing to put your faith in, you are stuck with chemo.
Dr. Sunil Pai MD also discusses how natural therapies can help make chemo more effective, and protect the rest of your body, the parts that don't have cancer, at the same time.
And yes, in my opinion, no matter what anecdotal stories are told here, chemo causes way more cancer than it cures. Period. My opinion.
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One of my most reliable topics when I 'did my research' was how stress affects my immune system. Anger is most destructive so I am learning minfulness meditation and compassion and trying to not obsess too much over what works and what doesn't. Chemo works for many and not for some.
Whether my cancer comes back is a crap shoot... or random. As has been said I have a zero % chance or a 100% chance. I think the more peace I can find the better my life will be cancer or not.
I am always amazed by the level of research that has gone on among the women of BCO. I have learned so much
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Wrenn, I agree. I am also thankful for my onc, who is now also DH's onc. Dh has stage 4 cancer. It is a rare cancer and he has a rare version of the already rare cancer. There are no studies. There are no protocols. The onc freely admits that he is flying by the seat of his pants and is simply trying to prolong DH's life as best he can. Today we were discussing what happens if the current chemo doesn't work. Onc said that we will apply for compassionate use of a new immuno-therapy and maybe try a 3rd chemo at the same time. I asked what chemos were left to try. He gave me the name of the drug, and added that he is not crazy about it. So we asked, then why do it? To which onc shot back that he wasn't saying we SHOULD, simply saying that it would be an option to try it. He is trying to provide options, the poor guy, in a situation where the options are few.
Edited to add: If anyone is wondering "why do chemo at all?" the answer is that according to FDA rules, you have to "fail" two chemos to qualify for the compassionate use. There are sound ethical reasons for this, but it sucks all the same. The first chemo we tried failed completely. However, onc followed my advice to scan after 2 rounds, instead of the usual 3. So we saved DH at least one round of no-good chemo.
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I am a childhood leukemia survivor. I underwent 2 years of chemo from ages 14-16. It wasn't any lifestyle factors that caused it. Sometimes your body just goes haywire. The chemo protocols were different and much harsher then (20 years ago) and was especially brutal for a body still going through puberty. Would I do it again? Absolutely. Without it I would not still be here. It absolutely cured me. I was in full remission within 2 weeks. I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Breast Cancer at age 32, the doctors believe that the chemo during puberty affected my cells and may have caused my current cancer. But we will never know for sure. I have been on some form of chemo for 11% of life between my two cancers and I 100% do not regret a think. To me, every single risk and side effect is outweighed by the reward, getting to live my life.
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becs511, that is how I look at it as well. I know there is no cure for cancer. So, it logically follows that I know perfectly well that chemo is not a cure. So far, chemo and the various other treatments I had have bought me 5 good, healthy years. Even if my luck runs out tomorrow, as it may well given my stats, I will consider it a good run and totally worth it.
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I don't believe in bashing "alternative" beliefs and especially not on a board especially created for that but I am opposed to suggestions that if you don't do it one way there is something wrong with you ("do your research" demand for example). When something is declared with such authority I believe it diminishes the content and is therefore lost.
It might also frighten away newcomers who haven't had time to do their research. Coming here is part of their research and they need all of the information presented rationally with concern and an attempt to help or it can be very confusing.
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Wrenn, once again, agreed.
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There are two things that bother me most when it comes to discussions about 'big pharma' intentionally poisoning people by chemo: mistrust of medical professionals and belief that anyone can actually do research and make the right decisions without medical professionals and/or proper education/knowledge.
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None of us know for an absolute FACT what tomorrow (or the next minute/hour/day/years) will bring to any of us!
As I have said before - thanks to Chemo and good Drs, I have had 6+ yrs since end of TX living a very good active life and intend on a lot more years. Without neoadjuvant A/C and adjuvant Taxol, there is no way that I would still be 'here' today living and loving LIFE every minute that I have been Blessed with - instead of the months that I would have had if I had not done everything possible to fight the Monster.
There is no 'One Size Fits All' so there is no way I can try to inflict what kept me among the living. It was right for me and did work but is not what would be correct for everyone. Unfortunately, there are some who are set in their ideas who choose to believe that their ideas are the only way. Also, IF we have learned from our own research/education is different than what someone else espouses - then we didn't research at all because they are (in their thoughts) 'right' and all should blindly follow their dictates.
I can definately respect someone else's opinions that are different than my knowledge/experiences IF they will, in turn, respect me and others who are quite capable of making educated decision based on what is best individually - not just being a sheep who follows a Judas goat.
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wrenn
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Because I lost both of my parents to pneumonia contracted while they were having chemo, I have some pretty mixed feelings about this treatment. Granted, both would have eventually died of cancer w/o the chemo, but both of them died sooner because of it.
My mother was diagnosed with stage 3 BC (large tumor, several positive nodes) and was told chemo was her best shot. She had neoadjuvant chemo with a partial response-her tumor shrunk enough for her to have a lumpectomy, but it was still there with several positive nodes at the time of surgery. Chemo took a lot out of her and she never seemed to regain her strength and vitality-although extensive lymphedema certainly played a role in her decreased quality of life after treatment. Less than 4 years later she was diagnosed with stage 4 in her bones and liver. She started chemo again and died within months of pneumonia. Chemo does knock out a person's immune system, leaving them vulnerable to secondary infections. Today, she probably would not have gotten chemo, at least not right away, the second time around, but have been started on an AI-something I see is very common on the stage IV boards with many having good responses to it. While it might not have worked for her, I'm quite certain if not for the chemo, she would have been around a lot longer and her last months would not have been nearly as miserable.
My father had inoperable lung cancer. It was wrapped around his esophagus, which caused him to have problems swallowing (but not breathing). He was initially treated with radiation, which shrunk his tumor a lot and brought him a great deal of relief. Because his doctors could not operate, they also started him on chemo. He completed only a couple of treatments before contracting pneumonia. We all, including his doctors, thought he was going to die. Chemo was halted, he eventually recovered from the pneumonia, was released from the hospital, relied on oxygen 24/7 for many months, but eventually needed it only at night. His lungs were severely scarred, not from the lung cancer, but the pneumonia. A couple years later, routine scans seemed to show his cancer was back in another spot on his lungs, but he was feeling fine. They weren't able to get a good biopsy, but decided it had to be lung cancer again and he chose to try chemo, despite what had happened the last time. He got pneumonia again and this time died within a month of starting chemo. Yes, his cancer would have killed him, but chemo shortened his life.
The idea that skipping chemo is playing Russian roulette with one's life is no more true IMO than that choosing to have chemo is similarly akin to playing Russian roulette. We just don't really have any great, surefire treatment options that will cure us without the real possibility that these same treatments might kill us or leave us with major heath problems in the future.
It does, however, seem that treatment options are now swinging away from chemo for everyone with BC. The oncotype testing has in recent years spared many women from chemo, showing chemo does not work well or make a difference for a certain group of women. I've recently read that studies show chemo not to be very effective for luminal a type BC or as effective for ILC and there is some talk that certain women who are HER+ might safely skip chemo and just be treated w herceptin. IMO chemo is a big double edged sword. I'm not sure what it would take to get me to consent to chemo, but something a lot more compelling than a 2 or 3 or 5 or even 10 percent chance it would work/change my prognosis for the better and those are the percentages we most often see when talking about chemo and solid tumors. People often say chemo saved their lives, but as someone else pointed out, there is no way of knowing if this is true or not. Many people survive BC without chemo and some people might have a good outcome not because of but in spite of chemo. The road not taken and all that. There is no way to know, but I do know for my family members, chemo has not been kind or helpful.
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Momine,
So heartbreaking about your DH. He's fortunate he has you to guide him through the horror of cancer.((()))
I know that chemo has been a benefit to so many and saved their life. I won't bore you with my reasoning for NOT taking chemo. Alt tx is hard. Chemo would have been much 'easier' on my mind.
twinkly, thanx for the research and all the links.
xoxMaureen
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We all have strong opinions about this topic and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. After all it is your life and your decision. Having said that please express your opinionwithout making snide comments about an opposing view. It is only fair.
Diane
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twinkly, I agree with you on chemo. We need methods to help our immune system to recognise our cancers and help it do its job. I never agreed chemo was a good choice unless you are desperate to kill a whole load of cells at once. But chemo can never get rid of all the cancers cells, extremely improbable.
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Not suggesting chemo hasn't helped people I just was not convinced at oncodx statistics. Also I think my doctor really down played the effects of armotose inhibitors on the body. To me chemo buys you time which may save your life.
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We need to remember something we didn’t know as recently as a decade ago: breast cancer is not one single disease--different histologies require different therapies, and since it’s patients who are treated (not just tumors) one size definitely does not fit all. Not so long ago, everyone with BC got mastectomy, radiation and chemo regardless of tumor type, receptor status, grade, and patient age and comorbidities. Who knows how far diagnosis and treatment will have advanced in another 10 years? Perhaps various protocols will be tailored to each patient and each tumor, with more focused targeting and less “collateral damage."
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Meow, exactly how I see it too: "To me chemo buys you time which may save your life." Also, even if my life is not saved in the end, I will still have had that extra time.
The immuno-therapies coming out at the moment are very exciting and are exactly as you say, "... methods to help our immune system to recognise our cancers and help it do its job." It is still in the early phases, but some of them are already being used to treat patients.
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Wow, twinkly... you have been through a lot throughout your battle... not to mention the little thing called "life" that must be dealt with while going through this "journey".
I am in the decision phase of chemo. I think every part of this is so very personal...it is a very hard decision to make. It feels like a potential Damned if I do and Damned if I don't! Personally, I feel most concerned about damaging the immune system I always felt did a pretty good job for me...but socially I feel forced to try the toxins.
It is a hard decision and I have learned that I will never judge another for whatever decision they make. Because the hardest part is we have to live with whatever decision we chose... and whatever we decide can bring us right back to these forums down the road.
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ElleD, you are so right....every part of this is very personal, and it is a very hard decision to make. When we are staring our mortality in the eye, it suddenly puts our lives and our values into perspective. But this perspective can be clouded, if we are also suffocated by fear. I long for every woman to have this perspective....without the fear, but this can only happen if she introspects, and is able to face her fears, and let them go, with the understanding that none of us has 'control' in this life, no matter how much we believed otherwise before we were diagnosed with cancer.
I believe a certain amount of introspection occurs naturally as we do our research. During the reading and learning of different treatment modalities, you will be naturally drawn to one thing over another. You will sift through piles of data and statistics, if they're available. And ultimately, you will make the very best decision you can make for you, one that resonates in your heart and mind, as the decision you will live with, regardless of your outcome.
When we make huge decisions in our lives, isn't it necessary to know what all our potential choices are, beforehand? How many of us would decide to buy a house, but only look into a couple of rooms, and leave the rest of the house unnoticed? Not one person has said they personally did all their research, and found chemo to be their best option for them, but thank you Twinkly for caring enough to help other women try to ensure they've considered all their options.
I respect every woman's decision, whatever she's chosen to do. But you hit the nail on the head, when you said you are feeling social pressure to take the toxins. I too felt those pressures, and although I thought at the time I was willing to consider natural options, I really wasn't because I was too afraid to deal with my family's reactions. Along with trying to absorb and deal with with my diagnosis, I was having to be strong for my family, who were falling apart around me. Not one of my family members who live in my city actually came to see me in the hospital after my mastectomies...they still couldn't deal with the thought of losing me. This was a horrible position to be in. I felt no support. And so I posted 'diary of a bilateral mastectomy' to try and support/help women who may be in my position, to help them navigate through what I'd gone through, highlighting those things I wished I had thought of, or had been different, to better help them through the journey. I talked of how chemo burned me from the inside out. That I couldn't go to the bathroom unless I was in the shower running clear water over my skin, because my pee was so toxic, it was burning my outsides too. How I was awake in my chair for over 100 hours, sipping aloe vera juice every 15 minutes or so, whenever the burning would become so great I could barely stand it, and catching a little sleep in between those sips, if possible. I actually halted my chemo after two sessions. I just knew in my heart it would kill me, if I continued.
Therefore, when I was moving to the Stage 4 boards, I was able to look back on my journey thus far....nothing they had given me had helped. My cancer was now back, I was pronounced 'incurable' and would likely die in 22 - 26 months from my diagnosis (of course, everyone is different, this was just 'the average' story).
And for the first time, I felt the freedom from the pressure to 'do everything I could do to give myself another month or three'. This pressure always included taking more toxic medicines, that hadn't done anything for me.
I didn't believe I had a lot of life left to live after my stage 4 diagnosis. But whatever time I did have, I wanted the best quality of life I could possibly have, so I turned my back on conventional medicine, and decided to honor my body with as much respect as I could, naturally, because this is what resonated in my heart. I decided to eat right (I changed to a paleo diet), to take my dog for walks (I've lost 80 pounds since my diagnosis), and to pray/meditate each day. In fact, doing those three things were all I could accomplish in a day, I was in so much pain. Everything is attached to your sternum, which is where my cancer was concentrated....breathing, sitting, standing, walking...everything....and I knew dying this way was going to be very painful.
My choice to take medical marijuana was simply to try and help my liver, because it ached with such intensity, I couldn't roll over on my right side without waking up in pain.
And lo and behold, when I accidentally began to heal my immune system, and I truly mean accidentally, because I was resigned to my upcoming death, I started feeling better....for the first time in ever so long. To choose natural methods to help our immune systems to heal, we need to do things differently than we've ever done before....pointedly differently, with intention and purpose and new knowledge we gain from qualified sources. Little did I know how powerfully healing the medical marijuana would be.
Today, I'm now the 'anomaly' for my doctors, because my story is not typical at all. And this is what saddens me the most, because I don't feel I'm much different from all my sisters on these boards. I truly believe with all my heart that chemo doesn't help enough of us to make it the 'standard' of care it is today. So many are saying their cancer can never be healed, etc. etc. which is just what big pharma would like us to believe....what they've actually taught us, to support continuing to use poison that has no more than a 5% chance to keep us alive after five years....
So, I've reached out to all with this post.....again, using my own personal experience as the impetus to try and help those who are in exactly the position you are in right now ElleD.
If you choose to take chemo, I will support you with all my heart. All I've been asking, is you make your choice knowing all your options, without listening to the pressures from outside. You will ultimately walk this road alone, because no once can actually walk in your shoes...no one has every single one of your life experiences, nor can they experience all the emotions you will experience on this journey, nor will they die with you when you die, whether that is in 5 or 85 years from now.
There are many ways to try natural therapies. If you are truly drawn to them in your heart, you may feel comfortable trying them initially for a certain time frame and see what happens. If you aren't responding, then you can try something else, that may or may not be chemo. The thing is, there are a plethora of combinations/options/roads you can decide on for yourself, but if you don't have a map, you'll never know how many roads there actually are, and which one feels best for You to travel on. That map is only accomplished if we do our research.
If you are comfortable doing so, take the time to make the best decision for you. For many of us, cancer was a part of our story for months/years before we were diagnosed/aware of it. Rushing to take chemo within days/weeks of our diagnosis may not be the best answer.
Unfortunately, the Stage 4 boards continue to be filled with women chemo didn't help. But that doesn't mean it won't help You. Ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone else does....this choice is solely and absolutely yours to make for yourself.
So, please, do your research, which will lead to introspection, which will lead to understanding in your heart and mind which road is the one You choose to travel on. And consult your map often, because you will come to many crossroads, and you may want to change your mind at some point. It's allowed.
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Here is a link to the last episode of 'the truth about cancer'....a series in addition to 'the quest for the cure'. The entire series is so worth watching, if you want to see MD's, PhD's, DO's talk about why the 'standard' of care isn't good enough, and never has been. https://go2.thetruthaboutcancer.com/agq/episode-9/
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twinkly I have been watching that docuseries and it is amazing! Makes you second guess the conventional treatment of chemo for sure.. I have to admit I am in the middle of treatment and it is making me look at my treatment and wonder. I have implemented a lot of what is covered in the series like Essiac tea, supplements, clean and organic eating. It's a must watch for everyone even those without a cancer diagnosis.
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Cancerpickedthewrongone, I suppose you have done your research on the Essiac - when I did mine I discovered it is not necessarily good for you if you have ER+ breast cancer. Below are just two sites that you might want to read: Essiac and Breast Cancer and More About Essiac
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It's a shame that most oncologists view chemo as a sole and exclusive treatment, and don't have the knowledge to safely comment on the integration of chemo with complementary therapies. That's something we need to work on here in North America. In many other countries, additional therapies such as PSK (glucopolysaccharides from a mushroom) or IV vitamin C are used along with chemotherapy to lessen side effects, boost the immune system and get better results.
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On the first page of this, where the one woman said her friend "knows it will come back"? That woman "knows " that, because she is stage four. When you have stage four, it is never gone. That's what stage four IS! Maybe the reason OP has progressed to st IV, is because she only did two rounds of chemo?
The chemos derived from mustard gas are very effective on blood cancers. And, Taxanes are derived from a natural tree, and many drugs are derived from 'natural' plants.
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muska thank you for sharing the links I will look into them .. The docuseries had a few stories about women w Breast cancer that were able to cure their breast cancer with the tea; however I'm interested to see the contrast with the links you provided l! Thankfully I just got the tea this week and only drank 1/2 a cup will hold off just to make sure!
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