why take chemotherapy?

twinkly
twinkly Member Posts: 182
edited April 2016 in Alternative Medicine

....because you're scared....because you've been told it helps. I personally believe it doesn't help in every type of cancer....only with a few types, of which breast cancer is not one.

Chemotherapy represents a heavy toxic load to your immune system...which is the only true and real protection you have against any disease. If you work to heal your immune system, I believe you are doing more than chemo has EVER done, or ever will be able to do.

Chemo was created from the mustard gases they used in wars during the last century.. To me, using chemo is like dropping a nuclear bomb in your body in an attempt to remove an ant hill, and all the ants. Agent Orange contained dioxin, one of the most dangerous chemicals known to man. It has been recognized by the World Health Organization as a carcinogen (causes cancer) and by the American Academy of Medicine as a teratogen (causes birth defects).


Yet we are diagnosed this to heal our cancer?? It doesn't make sense to me.

One fact remains, cancer can't grow in a healthy immune system.

Look at your lifestyle. At what you eat. At the environmental toxins in your life. Do you use personal care products with 'fragrance' as an ingredient, not to mention known carcinogens? Do you wear makeup, made with known carcinogens? Do you eat fast food, which provides the body with zero nutrition? Do you eat clean, pastured meat, raised ethically? These are more important considerations than taking chemotherapy. These considerations could actually heal your immune system, which in turn will heal your body.

No pill out there can heal your body...only your immune system has the power to do that.

Here's a link to the last of 9 episodes of 'The truth about Cancer' where you can see MD's PhD's, DO's discuss why the 'standard' of care isn't good enough (and actually never has been) https://go2.thetruthaboutcancer.com/agq/episode-9/

It's worth looking into....

All the best,

Twinkly

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Comments

  • ElaineTherese
    ElaineTherese Member Posts: 3,328
    edited April 2016

    Eh, maybe this should be posted in the Alternative Forum? All I know is that neoadjuvant chemo destroyed the active cancer in my breast and compromised lymph node, (confirmed with PET scan, MRI, and lumpectomy pathology report). I was able to get a lumpectomy, preserve my breast, and to avoid reconstruction. Does this mean I'm "cured"? Nope. But, there are plenty of women out there who've gotten Pathological Complete Responses (PCRs) to neoadjuvant chemo and who have had positive outcomes.

    Of course, in the case of adjuvant chemo, it's harder to tell whether chemo "worked." But, for ladies with fast-growing (Grade 3) cancer, chemo can be very effective.

    Best wishes, and carry on!

  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    unfortunately, chemo creates 'cancer stem cells' so even if the existing tumor shrinks or even disappears, the cancer may come back with a vengence later, as the stem cells, which create the cancer, aren't touched by the chemo. Watch The Quest for the Cure on Youtube, and see MD's DOs and PhD's talk about this very important information regarding how chemo is NOT the answer 'in every situation', as only a few cancers actually benefit from chemotherapy.


  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    I myself ended my six rounds of chemo, after only two rounds. It was barbaric. Killing off huge parts of my body, in the hopes that all the cancer cells would be included in that decimation. The research about stem cells was available then, but no one was talking about it.

    Chemo is a billion dollar business. And anything that exists solely to make money, I highly doubt has my best interests at heart.


  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    And I can't stress this enough. No pill, of any kind, can heal your body, unless your immune system is mobilized to do this. Pills may help reduce bacteria to a point where the immune system can take over....but no pill created in any laboratory, anywhere in the world, can heal us. This is what we've been brainwashed to believe, but it's not the truth. Only our immune system can heal us. And decimating it with chemo and radiation can make things worse for many....and can create a much uglier expression of cancer down the road....since the stem cells still exist. Often, it's not the cancer that kills us.... it's the decimation of our immune system, as our organs become so overcome with toxins, they begin to shut down, resulting in death.

  • ElaineTherese
    ElaineTherese Member Posts: 3,328
    edited April 2016

    Twinkly,

    Instead of citing anecdotal evidence (like your case), why don't you refute the studies of women who've achieved PCRs and have had good outcomes? By the way, I had five months of chemo and it wasn't barbaric. No parts of my body were destroyed in the process. Peace, sister. Your way is not my way, but I wish you the best nonetheless.

  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    I will look for more links regarding chemo being responsible for cancer stem cells...thank you for pointing out the previous links provided were no longer viable.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited April 2016

    Twinkly, you also posted this in the April 2015 chemo group, which may have been an error. Would you mind deleting it? Thanks.

  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016
  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited April 2016

    Where is there any legitimate documented researcb to support your 'theories'?

    What credentials do you have that show you possess knowledge to make such statements?

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited April 2016
  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited April 2016

    This really needs to be on the alternative forum. BTW, the " 90% of doctors wouldn't do chemo" referred to a new platinum chemo for small cell lung cancer. The survey by the McGill Cancer Center was more than 25 years ago. 118 doctors were surveyed and only about 79 responded

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited April 2016

    I have several personal friends who were diagnosed with very advanced cancers and who swear that their lives were SAVED by chemotherapy. Both are 30 plus year survivors so I am pretty sure that they are cured. I myself did chemo and radiation without any terrible side effects then, or later. Of course, chemo is poison. But it's poison that is working FOR you, trying to kill the terrorist cancer cells before they kill you, which they will do, for sure, if left unchecked.

    And, yes, one should try to live a healthy lifestyle.

  • Artista928
    Artista928 Member Posts: 2,753
    edited April 2016

    As already mentioned, for many it would probably be a death sentence if they don't. There is no cure for bc no matter how many years you are out, just remission for it can absolutely come back or mets decades later. That's why it's important for folks to really talk with their MO on their specific case. You can't go by stage or this or that alone. It's pretty complex.

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited April 2016

    Absolutely, the more information you have, the better decisions you will be able to make. There really are no 'one size fits all' answers.

  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited April 2016

    I have quite a few friends who are living proof that your statement that "everything dies when exposed to agent orange" is not factual. Yes, there were many whose exposure has had very bad results years later BUT they are living proof that not "everything dies when exposed".

    Those 'links' you added to a previous post do not work. Do you have any with documented/ligitimate research supporting your claims?

    My immune system was not 'destroyed'at all throughout 4 neoadjuvant DD A/C, UMX, 12 weekly Taxol, 25 rads and 6+ yrs of Femara/letrozole. In fact, during TX I had no immunity issues and since the end of TX have only had 1 'cold' and 1 sinus infection which I had always 'caught' every 'cold' running around and had 3 - bad sinus infection yearly. Thus - my immune system was not and has been compromised.

    It also has to be remembered that not all BC types are the same when it comes to TX protocohol/options or prognosis. In my case - being IBC there is no way I would still be alive today IF I had not done all medical options offered to me.

    Do whatever you want but 'it' is only what you 'think' is correct for you. Your decisions/thoughts are not automatically the correct way to go for all of us. There is no 'One Size Fits All'! The point is - we are each so unique and need to do the best we can as we see it - not blindly follow what someone (who knows nothing about us individually) claims their idea is the only way.


  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    Gosh ladies, I wasn't claiming my ideas are the only way.

    But I know hat our immune systems are the only things that heal us. That's not 'anecdotal' in any way. It's just a fact. I've discussed with my naturopath oncologist, my MD and my oncologist.

    And if you are up on your research, you will find that targeted therapies are the trend now. Scientists are working very hard to find ways to circumvent dropping the A-bomb on a body, and using ways and methods to focus this poison exactly where it needs to go.

    Nor would I ever presume to dictate one way for all. I've been down this road for over ten years now, and I've learned what an individual experience it is for each one of us.

    What I do wish, is that women do their research. And they don't blindly follow their oncologists recommendations.

    In 2008, my oncologist prescribed 4 chemotherapy drugs for my 'cocktail'. I had JUST read an article from Duke University stating that the taxanes don't help with estrogen receptor positive cancer.

    So I questioned her decision, and she agreed that she is quite comfortable removing the taxane from the cocktail.


    I was quietly stunned, understanding that unless I'd done my own research, I would be taking the taxane for NO reason....the chemo with the worst side effects....neuropathy, vision problems, and the list goes on and on.

    And don't forget the list of side effects....the toxic burden put on our bodies by these poisons is real. Very real.


    Kicks, I'm glad you had such a glorious experience through all your drugs. That's not the story for the majority of cancer patients, though, is it? Side effects are real, and some are permanent. Some people are given chemo when it's not in their best interests. And why is that? Well, it may be due to the fact that doctors in the USA are given kickbacks for each and every time they prescribe chemotherapy. Are we gullible enough to think that greed has nothing to do all of the chemo prescribed? Especially to terminal patients.

    I simply want women to understand they have a choice. Chemo is NOT the only choice.

    Medical marijuana is a viable alternative choice. So are many other natural therapies that I won't go into here.

    I don't personally believe that chemo helps in the long run, but that's my choice to believe, is it not?

    I encourage everyone to do their own research. And to not take anyone's word for what you should or shouldn't be doing....unless you reach the same conclusion yourselves.

    I reiterate....a +200 Billion dollar business, which is exactly what the cancer industry is, owns and trains the doctors that are guiding you through this diagnosis. Big pharma isn't interested in a cure, in any way, shape or form. Pharmaceutical drugs are merely present to manage symptoms, and not heal.

    Big pharma also calls any doctor practising natural medicine as 'quacks'. This isn't the case for the doctors interviewed on 'The quest for the Cure'. They are all MDs, DOs, PhDs who have realized the joke of managing symptoms only, and instead focus on how to support the whole patient, so their immune system can ultimately be responsible for the 'healing' of cancer, which I also believe is possible.

    And if cancer comes back strong in another 5 - 10 years, how on earth do you know it's not from the chemo or radiation you took way back when? You don't. THAT's why you need to do your research.

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited April 2016

    Wow, my Stage IV friend who did chemo 3 years ago and has been NED ever since would have dead if her doctor's had not offered her that choice. She knows it will come back eventually, but it's given her time to see her children graduate from high school, get started in life, make, lots of memories, continue with her career, her hobbies....really enjoy a good quality of life. Certainly hers is the exception, not the norm. But to say that the 'wee bit' of hope is false for all Stage IV people is simply not true.

    I just noticed that this has been moved to the Alternative Thread section, so will leave this up but not post anything more. Best of luck!

  • Artista928
    Artista928 Member Posts: 2,753
    edited April 2016

    Looking on the stage IV forums, I see many folks there who would have been gone by now had they not had chemo. Many have been hanging on for years because of it. For majority of cases, from reading here, no chemo = you'll be gone sooner. So yeah, do research on your case but for the most part, the only thing out there that extends your life is chemo and or rads. No natural remedy has been found.

  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    I am Stage 4. I have been for 2.5 years. I'd be dead now if I'd taken any further chemo. Natural methods are giving me a quality of life I haven't had since before my cancer diagnosis.

    We are all different. We all respond differently to these drugs.

    All I'm asking is that women do their research, and know they have a choice. Many viable choices, instead of chemo.

    And isn't it interesting that she 'knows' her cancer will come back eventually...why is that, do you think?

  • placid44
    placid44 Member Posts: 497
    edited April 2016

    Another happy ACT customer here...it wasn't easy, even though I was young-ish, some side effects persist, but I thank goodness every day for chemo. I'm going t my checkup w surgeon tomorrow...

  • muska
    muska Member Posts: 1,195
    edited April 2016

    Another ACT customer here with no apparent long lasting side effects so far. Btw, taxanes come from a plant - Taxus brevifolia - thus the name "taxol". It's a natural product.

    A few months ago, somebody posted a link to an interesting article - here is the link to that thread

    Confessions of Naturopathic Doctor

  • mkinoly
    mkinoly Member Posts: 86
    edited April 2016

    I've read a lot of posts on this site and it seems the only threads where people get defensive is when discussing alternatives to conventional treatment. All the sudden everyone is demanding facts and links like in no other threads without even really discussing the information with a semi-open mind. Twinkly brought up a lot of great points and things that every person should consider when facing cancer. We do NOT have to do everything our doctors tell us to. Doctors follow standard protocols and may not always have our own personal interest at heart (yes, doctors may have their judgment skewed by financial incentives), and I'm not convinced they even look at us as unique individuals. From what I've read most people diagnosed with cancer do whatever they are told to do and rarely consider options, likely because it's such a scary time and it's hard to process everything.

    While we might personally (anecdotally) know a couple people who did well for a long time with conventional treatment, that doesn't mean it's the right path for everyone. And it doesn't necessarily mean that treatment worked for them, because we will never know what would have happened without it. We all know that the majority do not go on to live a cancer-free life and die from something totally unrelated to it or its treatment. Some do, and so do some that have done only alternative treatments. Alternative or conventional, we have to choose what is right for us after we have sought out tons of information. What sounds logical and most likely to help us? It is a fact we need our immune systems in top form to give our bodies a chance to correct what is wrong within us.

    There's no way for anyone to know if their choice has worked or was the best choice because we can't know what another choice would have led to (same with all decisions in life). It's good to discuss options and consider why another person would think differently and make a decision we wouldn't make.

  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited April 2016

    Twinkly, I stopped chemo and will not have it again if mine comes back but I find your posts to be condescending. You keep telling people to do their research. You say you don't claim that your way is the only way but then tell them to do the research that will educate them to see it your way. It is great to tell people what worked for you but please respect the other choices. No one needs that kind of lecture/sermon.

    All the best to you.

  • edwards750
    edwards750 Member Posts: 3,761
    edited April 2016

    I bet we all know women who could make a case for either side. It is your body and your life. We all have a target on our backs no matter what stage of BC we are.

    I did do what my Dr recommended w/o a second thought. That's me. I didn't want to play Russian roulette with my life. My call. I didn't have chemo but I did have 33 Rads treatments. Radiation isn't chemo but it does have SEs as well some of which might not show up for years. Is what it is.

    I wonder if women who vehemently defend their choices are trying to convince themselves or others who opt for a different treatment plan that their method is best and those who think otherwise were duped by their doctors.

    The one thing I was determined to not do was to second guess myself or look back and say what if.

    We will never know for sure what the foolproof plan should be or what might have worked better. You just have to do what's best for you.

    Diane

  • muska
    muska Member Posts: 1,195
    edited April 2016

    Totally agree with the two posters above. Twinkly, you claim to have done a lot of research on ER+ immune system boosting alternative treatments. May I ask what exactly do you take to boost your immune system to fight active cancer apart from marihuana? Links to research studies in serious medical literature and not to newspaper articles will be much appreciated.

    Best of luck to everybody no matter what you use

    Winking

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 2,323
    edited April 2016

    Wow, thats a lot of emotion! This is a alternative medicine thread. Guess we are not even safe here! I respect everyones choices but please keep in mind that we do have choices. I do agree that the bc protocols are cookie cutter and do not in any way address those of us who need to be looked at otherwise. I have a debilitating autoimmune disease that has not been taken into consideration at all by some of the top docs in the country. Its discouraging to say the least. Good luck to all.....

  • Artista928
    Artista928 Member Posts: 2,753
    edited April 2016

    To be fair the thread was in the chemo forum and only recently the mods moved it here....

  • Denise-G
    Denise-G Member Posts: 1,777
    edited April 2016

    My brother-in-law and I were just talking about chemo the other day since many of my family members have been through it and are all still alive.

    He was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lymphoma and given grim odds to live more than a year. He took the mustard gas chemo that they were using in the 1970s and now no longer use for Lymphoma. There were no anti-nausea meds back them. They used to give him Jolly Rancher hard candies after treatment. To this day, he gags at the sight of those candies.

    The good news - he is alive 36 years - had a son doctors didn't think he would have and lives a great life. I know how I say chemo saved my life, but talk to him. My chemo talk seems like nothing compared to his. He said he is still grateful every day that he did it.

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 2,323
    edited April 2016

    Artista....oh sorry did not realize that

  • twinkly
    twinkly Member Posts: 182
    edited April 2016

    mkinoly, thank you for your balanced perspective. it's amazing how aggressive people have been, and yes, I understand that comes from fear, and have no judgement.


    wrenn, you are very short sighted in thinking I'm asking women to do the research only so they see it 'my' way.

    We need to do research so we have a 'balanced' understanding of what is available to us. Not just the fear ridden response we all have to work through initially.

    Doing the research is the respectful thing we can do for ourselves. To say I'm simply trying to get someone to see my point of view is ridiculous, and your comment says more about you, than me.

    When we get our cancer diagnosis, we believe we need to act NOW. Without taking a beat for ourselves. to understand the cancer has most likely been around for a while already....most likely years.....so don't we owe it to ourselves to take a little time to figure things out?


    If you decide to invest every single hope you have in the 5% success rate (beyond 5 years) which is all chemo can give anyone. If there was a headache medication out there that had only a 5% chance of healing your headache, would you buy it, and then militantly defend it saying it's the ONLY thing that can heal your headache?

    At least make the decision being aware of all the other natural treatments that also offer 5% (or even greater) chance of survival after five years. But wait, where are all THOSE studies??

    Unfortunately, for humankind, natural remedies don't represent profit for big pharma, so, much like the mafia, big pharma discredits natural remedies, and suppresses information, studies aren't given funding, promising research is literally destroyed, specially developed equipment is destroyed, and doctors who try to use natural means to heal are sued, and harrassed .... for saving lives.

    Big pharma orders the way our doctors are trained, and calls anything natural as 'quackery' (yes, big pharma actually coined this term) although .... get this........they scrupulously study nature to try and replicate what nature already does, but in a laboratory setting, so they end up with a 'pill' they can patent so they can make Money. Lots and lots of money.

    And if you can handle even more of the truth, understand that big pharma made WW2 possible, actually funded Hitler so he could invade Poland in 1939, which started WW2. Big Pharma created a five mile long compound at Auschwitz....using slave labor to build it, and using prisoners of war to test their drugs on. They even created the gas used in the gas chambers and were prosecuted at the Nuremberg trials. Many were given prison sentences they didn't have to serve more than 4 or 5 years of, and these war criminals were later made the CEO's of Bayer, and other well known pharmaceutical companies. Eventually, with their untold wealth, they created the monopoly of the pharmaceutical industry as we know it today. I


    Anyway....nature has very significant ways to help us. Our bodies understand natural remedies, as we have evolved with these natural treatments for thousands and thousands of years. It's only in the past 70 years we've had less and less access to natural medicines, and had pharmaceutical drugs shoved down our throats.


    We've not heard from those whose lives have been so compromised by chemo. They dose chemo in the most primitive way....by our body mass index. I'm almost twice the weight of my tiny little mother, who needs something as strong as tylenol 3 to knock out a headache, because she metabolizes medicine very quickly. I can take half a tylenol and it puts me to sleep. I'm very sensitive to medication, which means I metabolize it very slowly, therefore it stays in my system WAY longer. I've been that way my whole life. Yet if my mom and I were both given chemo, and we were dosed per out body mass index, she wouldn't be getting enough of the drug, and I'd be getting way too much.

    I have had women cry on my shoulder, telling me horror stories of how chemotherapy drugs hurt their loved ones so much...that the remaining years (yes, YEARS) of their life were spent in utter pain and misery.

    Chemo is NOT the only option we have. And in my opinion, if you'd actually done your own research, your comments would be much more informed, and you wouldn't be demanding I do the research for you.


    Medical marijuana is the greatest healing plant that exists - to my knowledge - and I'd much rather take something that has no negative side effects for my body....just healing side effects .....so my quality of life is as high as possible.

    And for the person who asked which natural remedies I take, here is the information.

    After stopping medical marijuana after 2 years, my liver, which had hurt a lot since my stage 4 diagnosis, started hurting again. Did I think it was cancer?? It didn't matter. I wanted to HEAL my liver. No pill out there can do that.

    So I researched how to detoxify my liver im the most gentle manner possible, and decided to start taking a daily coffee enema (which was included in the Merck Manual until the 70's when it was removed to make room for new treatments). Within the first two months, I'd passed out of my body over 200 liver stones and my liver stopped hurting so much. I was calling them gall stones at first, but since I no longer have a gall bladder, they're actually called liver stones....they plug up the biliary ducts in the liver, compromising it's ability to do the +500 processes the liver is responsible for.

    Now, after months of daily coffee enemas (I plan to do them daily for the rest of my life, if necessary) my liver is no longer hurting, and the skin issues I've had since chemo are resolving themselves.

    I no longer have chemo brain, which was so bad, I couldn't participate in a conversation for more than 2 or 3 minutes without losing my train of thought, and constantly having to ask...what was I saying?..........or .....what were we talking about??

    I also take nascent iodine, fulvic acid, D3, very high quality greens from Dr. Ben Kim's website, along with chlorella to help my body keep up with the detoxification that is taking place due to the coffee enemas.

    And because there is always candida present wherever there is cancer, I'm on a candida protocol taking undecanoic acid, along with molybdenum and pantithene.

    I eat clean pastured meats and eggs, nothing 'white', organic veggies, with a little fruit. I don't eat fast food. I don't eat a lot of carbs other than organic brown basmati rice. I make my own yogurt and kefir, and take my dog for a walk daily.

    I also meditate and pray each and every day, in order to stay connected with my moments.

    Peace,

    Twinkly

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