The human cost of greed within our healthcare system

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This is a really interesting article about something those of us here already know about -- the obscene cost of cancer care.

http://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2016/...


Comments

  • LisaAlissa
    LisaAlissa Member Posts: 1,092
    edited February 2016

    Thank you for posting this, dlb!

    And note the link to their upcoming Value in Cancer Care summit (free to patients) at the bottom of the column. Separately, there's a link to an earlier article that is mentioned in this article:


    Cancer, bankruptcy and death: study finds a link

  • hyphencollins
    hyphencollins Member Posts: 109
    edited February 2016

    This is terrible. And then when treatments are able to be produced generically and prices go down, the drug companies sometimes stop producing them to meet the need. Three times in the last 6 months I couldn't get my Tamoxifen refilled promptly at local pharmacies because they were out and they were waiting on the drug companies to restock them..when I mentioned this to my MO, she said that she's seen that with chemotherapy drugs and that folks with metastatic cancers who were responding to a given tx couldn't get more of the medication. She told me that at one point several years ago there was a lottery for, if I remember correctly, Taxol. Her

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    Why are drug companies doing this? BECAUSE THEY CAN! (Never knew when I wrote that song, based on personal experience, back in 2002, that it would concern matters of life & death).

    Anyone here wanna take that little weasel Martin Shkreli, string him up like a piñata, and hand out baseball bats? (Louisville Sluggers, not aluminum).

    Back when we lived in Seattle (and my husband was in med school doing a rotation at the Hutch), I was in private law practice across the lake in Bellevue. I did dozens of bankruptcies--and only one was due to profligacy or credit card abuse. The rest were ALL caused by catastrophic medical expenses, and most of those folks had supposedly adequate health insurance. Mind you, this was back in 1976-8, when cancer drugs were nowhere near as expensive as they are now.

    The most outrageous thing about the drug companies is their disingenuousness--“research & development costs?” Oh, really? So other countries won’t let them charge gov’t providers “list price,” therefore R&D costs have to be recouped on the backs of Americans instead? Get real: marketing & advertising takes a much bigger chunk of change off the bottom line. Because of Federal rules, drug company detail-persons can no longer spend megabucks wooing doctors; but what about those TV commercials and magazine ads for prescription drugs? They used to be limited by law to physicians via medical journals and continuing-ed programs on medical cable TV channels. But now it seems they are about to outnumber even car commercials. In magazines, they take up annoying multi-page spreads that make it annoying to have to follow “continued on page...” articles. On TV, it’s even worse. They’re at least a full minute long (a royal pain even when fast-forwarding via DVR) and many of them are for drugs that Medicare and most insurers won’t cover, to treat diseases that most people don’t have, with side effects worse and often more dangerous than the diseases, often requiring yet another drug to treat. The average consumer doesn’t know a biologic from a Bufferin and used to be able to rely on physicians to tell them what is available and appropriate to treat their ailments. Now they’re bombarded with ad copy mentioning diseases they never knew existed (indeed, most drugs being advertised were developed first without determining what they would treat) and told to “ask your doctor" if it “can help you” (leading to unnecessary doctors’ appointments as well).

    A good start would be to outlaw prescription-drug advertising in any media geared to the lay public. It wouldn’t be a free-speech issue, since SCOTUS has upheld bans on broadcast tobacco advertising and tobacco or alcohol-ad billboards within a certain distance of schools. It would allow drug companies to continue those coy “do you have (name of symptom)? Ask your doctor about a treatment that might help you” commercials; but they’re shorter and cheaper--the cost could be re-routed into responsible research or eliminate a barrier to Congress allowing Medicare & Medicaid to negotiate drug prices.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited February 2016

    Which presidential candidate will take on the pharmaceutical industry and the health insurance industry? Donald Trump.

    Where the candidates stand on healthcare:

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/858099

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2016

    From your link:

    Donald Trump

    Trump does not have an official health care proposal on his campaign web site, so the following is based on information gathered through published interviews.

    Obamacare: Repeal it. Allow consumers to buy plans from insurers in any state, no matter where they live. Trump supports the use of health savings accounts to pay for medical expenses not covered by insurance.

    Drug prices: No information available.

    Health care costs: No information available.

    Medicare: Preserve Medicare by growing the economy to strengthen the program, but there's no detailed information available.

    Medicaid: Trump says the government must provide assistance to those in need. No detailed information is available, but he says the government will work out a deal with hospitals to provide care for low-income people.

    Abortion: He thinks it should be banned at some point in the pregnancy, but he supports abortion in the case of rape or incest or when the mother's life is at risk.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    Complete repeal of the ACA would be utter disaster. Premiums would be whatever the market would bear, with no subsidies. Medicaid wouldn’t be expanded any further than it already is, And every currently uninsured person with any preexisting condition could find it prohibitively expensive to get coverage--if any insurance company were willing to cover them at all (not just for that condition). Yup--that includes cancer. Even a basal cell carcinoma could make it impossible to get coverage for breast cancer.

    Sanders would take on the drug industry, but barring a total shakeup in Congress he would likely get nowhere. (Scalia's sudden death today certainly foretells judicial inertia for months, if not years, to come). Clinton, when she gets the nomination, would likely be pushed somewhat towards a more progressive position on healthcare if only to keep Sanders' supporters from sitting out the election.

    Bloomberg could at least buy up all the drug companies. (It's a JOKE, relax).

  • Jelson
    Jelson Member Posts: 1,535
    edited February 2016

    Martin Shkreli, the "Pharmaceutical CEO" has been demonized for doing in a flamboyant and outrageous manner, what all the pharmaceutical companies are now doing, buying up the generics for critical drugs and increasing the prices - in his case x thousands. It is a shame that he is taking attention away from the major pharmaceutical companies which are doing the same thing but are strategically keeping the new inflated prices to something the insurance companies can swallow. Why do the R&D necessary to create new drugs, when there are profits to be gained by simply jacking up the prices of old drug?. Of course they will still scream when their drugs go off patent, but they obviously can wring a significant profit out of those generics that specific populations desperately need.
    This is capitalism pure and simple. marketplace medicine -disgusting.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    Shkreli is essentially creating monopolies for treating certain diseases. He is utterly shameless and transparent---and what he’s doing is, unfortunately, legal. This, of course, does not excuse the pharmaceutical industry’s predatory behavior.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited February 2016

    well it's nice a few of us are following current events. I think cancer treatment should be free, that'll get them moving

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited February 2016

    I look at Flint and think, who pays for the human costs? Who profits from ignoring the data?

  • jojo9999
    jojo9999 Member Posts: 202
    edited February 2016

    I thought I would chime in. On what Shkreli did (drove up price of a generic) - shouldn't there be more competition in generic drugs, given that there is no patent proptection? Why isn't there? Look at the FDA, which has been dragging its feet to approve new manufacturing facilities. New producers need FDA approval, but government bureaucracy slows this down, perhaps aided by pharma.

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited February 2016

    The problem with companies taking on amd manufacturing generics is that many times there is virtually no profit in it. Many manufacturers are dropping drugs that practically cost them money to produce

  • obsolete
    obsolete Member Posts: 466
    edited March 2017

    "Because They Can" sums it up perfectly...(Love that song!)... for actions on the part of BIG Pharma. BIG contributions to FDA... 1000+ BIG lobbyists ....follow the money trail.

    Television networks are losing viewer market share to the internet, thankfully due to popular brilliant websites, such as this one.

    Only TWO (2) countries in the entire world reportedly allow and/or promote TV pharma advertising of prescription drugs to general consumer audiences. You guessed it.... USA and New Zealand. Guess why? Follow the $$$.

    Please read BIG Pharma articles posted at DrugWatch.com

    Well said, sisters! Thanks for the links.

    ..

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2016

    I'm unclear why pharma companies make these huge expense claims for R&D when the majority of news articles and breakthroughs are being done by major universities some with affiliated medical centers. The big pharma companies can pick and choose what research they wish to pursue to market. They should NOT get credit for this research - they are making huge profits from research already done by others.

    All these PhD and MD researchers are not employed by these pharma companies. They are out there in the universities and teaching hospitals IMO.

    Please correct me - when reading reserach and news articles has anyone noticed WHO funded the research? Was it some pharma company or in some cases NIH grant funds?

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited February 2016

    cp, you are so right about the claims by pharmaceutical companies that research is the reason for these outrageous prices! Although federal funding has been drastically cut in recent years, organizations like The American Cancer Society and Stand Up To Cancer donate millions each year via grants to cancer research. And actually pharmaceuticals do employ PhD researchers. But according to my hubby, who is in medical equipment manufacturing, the cost of research gets written off. So it's totally bogus to point to that as such a major factor for outrageous drug prices.

    Here are a couple of recent videos I've posted elsewhere on BCO, but they also illustrate the synergistic relationship cp brings up between universities and pharmaceutical companies.

    https://www.facebook.com/su2c/videos/1015298932190...

    http://www.cancermoonshot2020.org/

    I had also posted the original article above on my FB page, and my brother, who lives half the year in France, brought up a couple of interesting points. First, that medical (including cancer) care is virtually free in France. And when I wondered aloud about survival stats, he found data that shows France is #3 in bc survival, while the US is #9. So clearly, the problem of cost is with our delivery system.

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2016

    I just posted an article for MBC in WallStreet Journal where it discusses funding for research. There is NO mention of funding coming from any of the BIG multi-BILLION dollar pharma companies. However, they will profit from the research if they CHOOSE to take any potential therapy to market. They are in control IMO.


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