Lumpectomy Lounge....let's talk!

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  • LovesToFly
    LovesToFly Member Posts: 1,133
    edited February 2016

    We probably discussed this before, but how do you those of you with estrogen positive cancer feel about soy? I know some oncologists will say to completely avoid it, and when this first happened I started avoiding it.

    Since then I have spoken to my oncologist, she is very clear that the risk is theoretical and no research has shown an increase in breast cancer or recurrence due to soy. She also feels that because I am vegan, the nutrition from soy outweighs any theoretical risk. She did say I probably want to moderate a bit JIC ( as new studies are always being done) like not fill my diet with soy to replace everything, but that I don't have to worry about using tofu and eating edamame a few times a week.

    Based on most of the articles and research I have read, I feel comfortable with that- there have been no human studies that have shown that breast-cancer occurrence or recurrence has increased with soy, and some actually seem to show a mild decrease. So I use tofu and (rarely because I use meat alternatives rarely) soy based meat alternatives in my cooking, but I use nut based milks and soy free "cheeses" so I am not having piles of soy daily.

  • LovesToFly
    LovesToFly Member Posts: 1,133
    edited February 2016

    Thank you Jan!! Totally nonjudgmental and never put other people down for how they choose to live, but I find it funny that people often put me down and assume that I must be miserable to try to maintain this weight loss. I'm not gonna lie it was like that the first year or so, it often bothered me thinking that I would never again be able to go to a restaurant regularly and just order whatever looks good on the menu without thinking about the fat or calories, or thinking that I would have to keep exercising for the rest of my life (or I got old/senile enough to stop caring) but as time passed that drifted away, and now I am honestly usually blind to the foods that I cannot (gluten intolerance-really!) or choose not to eat and actually crave exercise and activity! It sacrifice at all, my life is infinitely better when I am maintaining a healthy lifestyle

    Right now, leaving my regular drinking habits feels hard, often on weekends I crave a glass of wine to relax and feel a bit looser,. But I know in time that will pass!

  • Brightsocks
    Brightsocks Member Posts: 159
    edited February 2016

    Hi Ladies,

    This entire BC time in my life has introduced me into a world of information, new friends, confusion and realization that in the end we are all wanting the same goal NED free life. Before I joined this club I had friends with BC but had no understanding about how many types there are out there in the mix. There have been many advance in treatment but it seems far too slow. There is not a one pill fix for all so we are all looking for answers. To drink red wine or no red wine is again one of these choices which came up due to new research and the effects of Resveratrol or old theories on the effect of red wine on ones liver. Such a complex puzzle to try to grasp as each choice seems to have a deadline clock ticking.


  • ayr1016
    ayr1016 Member Posts: 228
    edited February 2016

    This question I am sure has been asked before. But, what supplements are you currently taking? I know the supplements allowed can depend on where you are in treatment. I am taking vit d, digestive enzymes (need these because I do not have a gall bladder), and an organic women's once a day multi. I want to add vitamin C daily. Need to research and see if there are any problems with treatment and vitamin C. I was taking Turmeric, but MO said not to take because of Tamoxifen.

    Jill - What a fantastic change you made! Shortly after going vegetarian (10 years ago), I started exercising daily + yoga and lost over 50 lbs. I was in the best shape of my life. My before and after pics look similar to yours (minus running a marathon ;) I get what you mean when you say "crave exercise and activity". I miss that. Through the years of being single, I lost the daily exercise/yoga and gained back 30 of those pounds. Being diagnosed was a wake up call. I have cleaned up my vegetarian diet immensely and am going forward with eliminating dairy and gluten. I do not look at it as a sacrifice. I actually was a huge coffee drinker prior to diagnosis. Starbucks took a lot of my $$. I was worried I would crave it, miss it, and have withdrawal symptoms from hell. I do not miss it at all. It was easy to leave it behind. I drink jasmine green pearl tea now. Love it and look forward to the process of making it each morning and my tea kettle whistling. I am struggling with the soy thing too. I don't know if I should avoid completely or just use in moderation. I will absolutely eliminate anything that will higher my chance of reoccurrence. I want to get to the point of eating to live, not living to eat.

    moondust: That is the reason my RO gave as well. I will have time to do more research and/or change RO if I feel the need before RADS. I wanted to check out proton therapy as well. My MO is not against it and actually my RO isn't either. They both said that I need whole breast and that proton therapy is more for targeted. I will still continue to do my research on the subject since I have more time before surgery since we are doing the neoadjuvant hormone therapy first.

    Edit: to add more!

  • ayr1016
    ayr1016 Member Posts: 228
    edited February 2016

    instead of going back and adding more to my other post (sorry!) again. I want to ask about inflammation. I think inflammation is one of my biggest enemies. I already know I have inflammation in regards to digestion (stomach/esophagus/etc.). That is why I wanted to try turmeric supplements. What other ways can I decrease overall inflammation? If there is one thing I have learned. Cancer thrives on inflammation. I also bruise super easily, but my iron levels seem to be okay. That is puzzling. I have arnica gel and pellets I have started using.

  • LovesToFly
    LovesToFly Member Posts: 1,133
    edited February 2016

    The only supplements I currently take are a women's multivitamin, and vitamin B 12. I do have my yearly soon, and plan to ask for a full blood testing to make sure I'm not deficient in anything, especially since my diet changed. If I am I will review any supplements I think I should be taking with my oncologist and the pharmacist.

    Thank you April! Good luck! Also I have never ran a marathon, I think people that do that might be a little bit insane! I have ran a couple half marathons, 1 15k and many 5K's and 10ks.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    HH, so sorry about your friend. We are so focused on cancer right now that we tend to forget that heart disease is far and away the biggest killer of adults of both genders. (This is Women's Heart Month, so wear some red every day, even if it's just a piece of jewelry).

    About dairy: the correlation (not causation) with bc is with milk from hormone-treated animals. I drink low-carb ultra-filtered milk from non-dosed cows, avoid domestic cow milk cheeses (hormones in the food chain are illegal in the EU) that aren't certified hormone-free, and have judicious amounts of sheep & goat cheeses, as well as those from Europe. As for my coffee? I love the taste, so I usually take mine black and unsweetened (even as espresso) except for the occasional cortado, espresso macchiato, or cappuccino. I rarely have those away from home, and when I do I specify almond or organic milk. Not a big fan of lattes, or of sweetened espresso drinks. My MO says a little soy in food form (edamame, tofu, low-sodium tamari) is fine--just avoid soy meat substitutes (b'bye, Boca Burgers) and soy in supplement form. I don't use soybean oil because it's too high in Omega-6s.

    Funny thing happened last night. We went out to dinner at our usual fave,B'way Cellars. Decided to split salad, mussels and a steak (2 green veg rather than spuds). Bob had a couple of the five-buck martini specials (to me, martinis taste like liniment), and I was going to have my usual cava to start. But I knew I needed to keep my intake down to one glass total, and there was a good Oregon Pinot Noir on the list. So I stuck with water till the steak and Pinot arrived. Would you believe I drank only about 3 oz., and not by conscious choice to limit my intake? (Sure, I could also have had half a flute of cava, but that would have taken way too much discipline). Bob was happy to polish off the remainder of my glass.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    Ayr, biggest thing you can do to avoid inflammation is to give up sugar and assess your allergies--whether food, inhaled or tactile. Allergy is an autoimmune, ergo inflammatory response, and avoiding or minimizing exposure to allergens as well as medically treating with antihistamines or leukotriene inhibitors (if ordered by your doc) is key.

    As to supplements, I take a women's multi, fiber, D3, calcium citrate (I'm on a PPI for GERD and most calcium supplements like Tums are carbonate, which can't be absorbed with inadequate stomach acid), magnesium, B12, biotin (for hair, skin & nails), probiotic, melatonin (for sleep and recurrence-prevention), Co-Q10, and GTF chromium (picolinate is ineffective) for carb metabolism. I haven't had a gallbladder since 1994, but given my excessive BMI it looks like my naturaldigestive enzymes are working too well.

    Sloan, I know little about tamoxifen other than that it can prevent bone loss but leave one susceptible to blood clots and uterine or retro peritoneal cancer (the latter in the absence of a uterus). Sometimes it's given to heart-healthy active postmenopausal patients who can't tolerate AIs-- but both classes of drug share many potential SEs, such as joint pain, skin and vaginal dryness, and sometimes thinning hair.

    As to getting sick during rads, I did have some nausea the Sat. after my fifth treatment, but later realized it was probably hypoglycemia and dehydration from being too distracted by the song circles I was running (at an all-day music venue anniversary. celebration) to eat or drink anything for 7 hrs


  • Brightsocks
    Brightsocks Member Posts: 159
    edited February 2016

    ILovesToFly- There are a bunch of items one can take but it depends on your doctors advice etc. There are a few items which you could see if they are right for you. Turmeric, Probiotics, Fish oils, Melatonin and D3. I was told to avoid some vitamins - Vit C, iron, copper, manginess and green tea to stop while doing radiation. I am sure there must be a different list for the chemo stages of treatment.

  • Katja23
    Katja23 Member Posts: 46
    edited February 2016

    ChiSandy, you wrote: "...to facilitate resorption of the fluid so my breast will settle down to its eventual post-op "new normal" size."
    When I went to my two-week post-lumpectomy surgery appointment with my BS, she commented that there was still some fluid under the incision. (I didn't have any drains.) I didn't think to ask her what that meant. Is it typical to have a small amount of fluid collect within the breast? When does it go away? I Googled it. Is this called a seroma?

    Moondust, you mention swelling. Might that also be related to fluid? How common is that? I have not read enough in this discussion to hear about swelling.

    I have not really noticed anything, fluid or swelling, myself. Fact is my breasts are not quite the same size, and the lumpectomy was done on the smaller breast, and now it might look closer to the size of my other, larger breast, although I cannot say for sure, because I was not looking closely and comparing their sizes in the past. So, for now, both breasts look about the same size and shape, which is nice, but I know that is temporary. If it's not just temporary swelling or fluid, then radiation will likely reduce it further.

    The post-surgery exam done by my BS lasted what seemed to be only 30 seconds. She didn't even give me the chance to ask questions during the exam. She just said: OK, get dressed, and come into my office.

    By they way, I hear all this talk about bras. I didn't get any different bras, but just chose to wear those that are more comfortable especially for the first week of wearing them at night. I am avoiding a bra whose edge/seam right over where my incision is (outer quadrant), but other than that, nothing different. The under arm (sentinel node) incision has been a little bothersome, but I then noticed that my skins tends to fold there, so it's not surprising. Now, 17 days out, I mostly don't feel it any more, only on occasion.


  • HawaiiMom
    HawaiiMom Member Posts: 113
    edited February 2016

    You go Angela!

    i call the cancer center to get to my mo. Really bad call backs...hours and hours. And they don't deliver messages, like...i have a fever of 102...or they gave me the runaround when my mo was off island--8 calls could have been taken care of in one call. When his assistant found out about my fever 5 hours after i took care of it, my mo called back and told me to go to er! Lol...too late.

    I finally complained to my mo thursday and he apologized. The nurse manager came to see me during my chemo yesterday...she said they will have reception peeps do better triage and i can always ask for the charge nurse. Or call her in her cell. Glad they take things seriously.

    Off my soapbox...i am just glad yesterday was 5 of 6!!!

    Aloha and cyberhugs!!!


  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    Katja, a breast seroma is very common and normal after a lumpectomy (and many other surgeries): nature abhors a vacuum and fluid builds up in the cavity remaining after tissue was removed during lumpectomy. Less common but still normal at the SNB site too. Most seromas resolve w/in a very few weeks and never spontaneously rupture nor need draining (which could lead to infection). My SNB incision popped open due to the weight of my very-large breast, so the seroma beneath it gushed out (sort of self-drained). The surgeon pressed out as much fluid as he could and then sutured it closed and it is now smaller than an almond. The breast seroma was so large (“huge” was what my RO said after seeing my pre-sim-session CT scan) that the only clue I’d even had a lumpectomy was the scar. But beginning with the second radiation session--double-strength, straight to the tumor site--it began enlarging to the point where that breast is a cup size larger than pre-surgery; and the radiation caused fibrosis of the tissue between the skin and seroma. I am one of those rare patients who got breast enlargement, rather than shrinkage, from radiation. And though the fibrosis is softening, that seroma could last a year or more, perhaps permanently. I’m sure I’m keeping at least one DD+ online bra vendor afloat.

  • Praline
    Praline Member Posts: 115
    edited February 2016

    Interesting discussion about vegan diets. I had open heart surgery 10 years ago for mitral valve repair, a bypass, and a maze procedure to get rid of AFib. Shortly after that I was having problems with high cholesterol ( so is everyone in my family). He knows I am an avid reader so he recommended I read a book called " Forks Over Knives". The research discussed in that book was done with heart patients. It reads like a novel. I think it would be fascinating reading for anyone who is a vegan. The sentence I remember most from that book was " If it has a mouth or a mother , don't eat it".

    http://www.amazon.com/Forks-Over-Knives-Plant-Based-Health/dp/1615190457/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454811667&sr=1-1&keywords=forks+over+knives+book


  • Gemma12
    Gemma12 Member Posts: 137
    edited February 2016

    I read today that Ben & Jerry's just came out with 4 certified vegan flavors... mmmm.

    http://www.syracuse.com/food/index.ssf/2016/02/ben_jerrys_releases_4_new_vegan_ice_cream_flavors.html

  • molliefish
    molliefish Member Posts: 723
    edited February 2016

    Brightsocks I had 16 whole breast and 5 boosts. I was pretty fortunate.

  • HappyHammer
    HappyHammer Member Posts: 1,247
    edited February 2016

    LTFly- I saw this article and thought of you. Just wanted to share in case it would be helpful. Hugs!

    REALfarmacy.com MENU

    This "healthy" food can cause Brain Damage and Breast Cancer- You Should stop eating it IMMEDIATELY

  • Peachy2
    Peachy2 Member Posts: 350
    edited February 2016

    This evening our East Coast Hockey League team had the annual Pink in the Rink game to benefit the breast cancer center at one of the hospitals in town. They color the ice pink, the players wear pink jersey that are raffled off, and there's a lot of pink in the seats.

    The president of the team is one of my husband's golf buddies, so we are always able to get good tickets. Before start of the game breast cancer survivors are brought onto the ice to be honored, and a few weeks ago he asked if I would like to participate in the ceremony. I declined. It's a great celebration, though I feel that breast cancer is something that happened to me and I dealt with, much like a car accident, not something I want to be recognized for having done. Does that make sense?

    The home team won 4 - 2, so it was a good night. :)

    image

  • HappyHammer
    HappyHammer Member Posts: 1,247
    edited February 2016

    Peachy- that is very cool- love the pink ice. Yes, completely understand the whole "BC is something that happened to me- like a car accident." Recognition for dealing with it...nah!

  • Peachy2
    Peachy2 Member Posts: 350
    edited February 2016

    Thanks HH. Glad it's not just me. Happy for the women who found joy and support in the applause, but I'm happier without it.


  • Suz-Q
    Suz-Q Member Posts: 205
    edited February 2016

    Exactly Peachy

  • Fran1969
    Fran1969 Member Posts: 11
    edited February 2016

    I know I'm still finding it hard to accept that this disease is a part of me now. That even after treatment ends and I am declared NED. The dormant cancer stems cells are here to stay. This battle will not be won through chemical warfare but through lifestyle and a healthy connection of my mind body and spirit. I am a person with a disease. The disease does not have me.

  • Peachy2
    Peachy2 Member Posts: 350
    edited February 2016

    "I am a person with a disease. The disease does not have me." Fran, I love how you put that.

  • queenmomcat
    queenmomcat Member Posts: 3,039
    edited February 2016

    Peachy: with you on the not wanting to join the 'survivor' group out on the ice. I'd too consider myself to be in the "car accident" category--I will consider myself to have survived breast cancer if I die of something else at what approximates "a reasonably ripe old age for my family". To wit.....my eighties. Late eighties. I'm 49 now.

  • ayr1016
    ayr1016 Member Posts: 228
    edited February 2016

    Knowing what I know now about BC, I do not think I would ever consider myself "cured" or a "survivor" after treatment because of the possibility of reoccurrence. Maybe I will change my mind at some point, but that is how I feel right now. That initial diagnosis is not what is most horrifying. It is the reoccurrence that is. I will always have to be monitored in some way or fashion for the rest of my life. It is what it is. I wish "awareness" was more about real information, not just early detection saves lives. Every single person I have talked to about my breast cancer had NO idea that it could metastasis (actually, most didn't even know what the word metastasis meant) and that if it does spread to the brain, it isn't brain cancer, it is still breast cancer. I can not fault them though, because I had no idea either prior to diagnosis. It is just such a misconception "detect early, get treatment, your done". Your never done. I don't want to be honored for having breast cancer (walking out on the ice), but I would be glad to share invaluable information about what I have learned and/or what I have gone through (or will go through) to help others understand the beast that is breast cancer.

  • Jclc83
    Jclc83 Member Posts: 246
    edited February 2016

    The beast that is breast cancer

    That's exactly the reason I don't hide my bald head under a wig.


  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited February 2016

    I know Jews don’t confess (well, except collectively on Yom Kippur), but here’s a confession:

    I feel hesitant to even walk into a support group--with a full head of hair and two breasts that were there before diagnosis. I breezed through radiation and am okay on endocrine therapy. My problems are trivial: they’re basically inconveniences and potholes, not disabilities or roadblocks. I had great insurance (and now Medicare), a terrific care team that met all my medical needs, and my friends and family have been supportive and understanding. It didn’t disrupt my life as much as I’d feared. Sure, I’m distressed at the prospect of recurrence or even metastases, but who with a bc diagnosis isn’t? I’m afraid that in a room full of women who’ve been to hell and back (or are still struggling to escape it), I’d feel like a fraud. Cancer isn’t something I vanquished--but along the lines of the car-accident metaphor, I wasn’t anywhere near “totaled.” I feel honored to be able to pay it forward, but in contrast to so many awesome women (and men) who have had to face breathtaking adversity, I sure don’t deserve to BE honored. (And I pray I never will).

  • Fran1969
    Fran1969 Member Posts: 11
    edited February 2016

    I wouldn't say fraud. The journey is so individual but no less terrifying. Bravado is the facade. The physical manifestations of BC though horrendous for some builds a hero for all of us who come through with less scars to show on the outside than can be seen in the void where our inner peace once homed. Peace is what I would give my new self. These women of courage honor me with their stories as I read avidly for fortitude. And to those who's lot was easier I Devine as myhope that the monster may be a rat in the cupboard.

    Edit. We all have our own part to pla

  • Molly50
    Molly50 Member Posts: 3,773
    edited February 2016

    Fran, I couldn't agree more. ChiSandy, you are not a fraud any more than I am. We were fortunate to not need chemo. Our fears are the same as everyone else. That's what makes this a sisterhood. Interesting article on soy.

  • LovesToFly
    LovesToFly Member Posts: 1,133
    edited February 2016

    thanks for the article. Not one that compels me to change my habits...there is so much information out there and rf is not a site I tend to rely onmuch (they use a lot of hyperbole and do not rely much on reliable evidence based research and stories imo) but more information is always useful and it is articles like thst that lead me to limit my soy somewhat.

  • Jclc83
    Jclc83 Member Posts: 246
    edited February 2016

    Not sure why it seems like I always have to explain myself. Let's see if I can.

    I feel, for me, that my job or my mission is breast cancer awareness. I'm not the type to run in a 5K. And I hate the color pink. So I wear my baldness proud. It makes some uncomfortable, I don't care. Cancer is uncomfortable. Maybe if 1 of the 8 women in a crowd were bald or 1 out of 16 or whatever, people could see how many of us suffer from breast cancer. If they see the obvious, outwardly physical effects it might make them more aware, more knowledgeable, more compassionate or more interested in research. They might even talk about it. It might spur someone to get amammogram. Doing this might not help but it surely won't hurt

    I'm happy for those of you that don't have to have chemo or other extensive treatment. We all have our own journey. This is mine.

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