Downton Abbey

I love all of them, especially the evil or snobby ones! I love Mary, the Dowager, Isobel and Thomas, well, every darn one of them. They all make the show so wonderful, they give us ones to hate & ones to love. I am going to miss it terribly. While I love Mr. Selfridge & all it's flawed characters as well, nothing will stand up to Downton Abbey.

I've had this interesting thought process going on since I first started watching, and now we're in the heat of election season, the political issues we're watching in Downton have got me interested in how our two nations went in such different directions.

Our founders really were key. Though they were not aristocrats in fact, they were in a certain sense, in that they were educated men, deep thinkers, landowners, professional men, well read in the classics. They developed an idea that became the republic, intentionally. In Britain, the aristocracy held the upper hand, resisted change, took advantage of their status, so that a whole class of people went from feudalism to service, and after the Industrial Revolution, the Russian Revolution, and the First World War, found themselves with options for the first time. As they left service, and, like Gwen, found themselves able to do more than they had ever been allowed to dream, the ranks of servants dwindled until there weren't enough to take care of the upper class and their properties. That was only part of the problem, of course. Then the lower class men came home from the war with new ideas, and they spread like wildfire. That's what created characters like Tom and Bunting. But what they saw was the destruction of the aristocracy completely, and they managed it to a great extent. Of course as long as they have a monarch, it will never be gone, but it will never again be what it was. But what the lower classes had in place of the old system was socialism, because that was the only way to level the playing field. The oppressive taxation finished the work the lack of servants started, so that the aristocracy had no choice but to sell their land, their homes, etc. and live like everyone else. Socialism did level the playing field, as it always does, as Churchill pointed out, to shared misery.

That said, I've always been an Anglophile at heart, just wish there had been some middle way.

Was that too harsh? If so, my apologies.

(Blushing) Ms. Pharaoh, how did we all forget about Mr. Green!!! Yes, he was the very worst character.

That rascal, Kemal Pamuk, doesn't even rank in my book as a bad character. Mary could have said no. All she had to do is yell or ring the bell in her room and he would have been sent off in disgrace.

DivineMrsM, I agree about Rose. Did you know Theo James, the actor who played Pamuk, was the lead in Divergent, which was a young adult movie. Same target audience. My daughters were big into Divergent, but Downton Abbey is "too slow."

I really like Isobel. Going back to my criteria for ranking characters, she is one of my favorite characters, having done the most good for the most people. Has she done anything wrong, other than oppose Violet and (gasp) be the wife of just a doctor (having no title nor social standing)?

Dismay, yes, Isobel can be self-righteous, but I think it is justified. She really does have other people's interests at heart. I love the Dowager, and she has helped some people in her own way. However, when choosing between her power and other people, she will choose power.

Miss Bunting...I love all your comments about her, it really fleshes out her character for me. Still didn't like her, but have more insight....yes, her education making her ahead of the curve on speaking out, that is a good observation....and firebrand....Caryn, I didn't know that word so I looked it up and such a perfect way to describe Bunting! I bet I hear that word all the time now.

Have always loved Isobel (AND her hats.) Here's one reason. We do not see women her age much at all in TV shows here in "the States". Young and sexy or hard and driven is mostly what you get here. It is nice that a woman her age has a large role in a series and it adds a terrific dimension that we don't often get. She is not invisible even tho she is older. She is refined and her open mindedness is what I love best about her. Willing to see things in a new light. Interested in others.

Before the show ends, I am hoping there are a few more surprising moments and secrets revealed that we don't see coming.

What I like about Isobel, is that she would apologize if she were wrong. The dowager would never apologize and find some way to justify her position.

Aristocratic Edwardian ladies were not well educated. Some music, some French, basic reading and math as well as finishing school were all they considered necessary. Higher education? My dear, it simply was not done,

AmyQ, I'm opting out of this thread because of your comments. You've mentioned several things that are yet to come because you've already seen the entire series, and I don't want to risk your spilling any more beans.

Ladies, it was fun. Will log in to this thread after the series is over.

I'm sorry Mrs M - I have tried to be very careful and the only thing I mentioned was the gift. I am certain I haven't spilled any other beans. But really I'd rather you stay and I go until you're all caught up.

Amy

Thanks for editing your post. I thought about buying and watching the whole thing, but I'm really loving the the slow week by week revelations. I can't watch it when it's broadcast so am waiting each week to visit this thread until we've had a chance to livestream it on Monday. Thanks for not spilling the beans!

Someone mentioned Mrs. Levinson. One of my favorite characters in just a single episode was her son--Cora's brother--who was played by Paul Giametti. I thought he was terrific and would love to have seen more of him!

I think Episode 5 is fine to talk about now! And 6 will be after Sunday!

Here's the schedule: We can talk about Episode 6 after it is broadcast this Sunday, February 7 (assuming you have a 2nd TV or feel like wresting the remote from the Super Bowl watchers in your home).

Episode 7: Sunday, February 14 (Hey, Valentine's Day!)

Episode 8: Sunday, February 21

Episode 9: It looks as if there's a bit of a break, because the last episode is scheduled for March 6.

If you have seen all of the remaining episodes, please be respectful of those who are watching it week by week and refrain from spoilers. Thank you!!!!

(I am ever reminded of the Harry Potter publication party where a young child flipped to the end of the 6th book and cried out, "Snape kills Dumbledore!!" Thus ruining it for all in attendance.)

Super Bowl? Well, Levi stadium is about 15 minutes from my house and the whole Bay Area has gone Super Bowl crazy, but I haven't got a bit of interest in it. Bring on Downton Abbey

I need photos to go with the names....

Marijen, here is the main cast of downstairs and upstairs

From left, downstairs: Carlson (butler), Mrs. Hughs-Carlson (housekeeper), Thomas (underbutler), Moseley (footman), Baxter (Lady Grantham's maid), Andrew (footman), Daisy (undercook), Mrs. Patmore (head cook), Mr. Bates (Lord Grantham's valet), Mrs. Anna Bates (Lady Mary's maid),

Four generations of upstairs: Dowager Countess Violet Grantham Robert's mother), Lady Cora and Lord Robert Grantham, two of their daughters: Lady Mary, Lady Edith, cousin Mrs. Isobel Crawley (Mary's mother-in-law), Mary's son George, and Edith's "ward" Marigold

I'll try to get some pictures of Spratt, Denker, and the others.

Mominator, do you think that they'll resolve every story? Or just provide hints at the end for some of the subplots? It feels a little too neatly packaged if Daisy/Andy, Mrs. Patmore/Mr. Mason, Baxter/Mosely are ALL paired up, not to mention Mary/Henry, Edith/Bertie.... And then there's my dream that Isabel and Lord Merton get back together, but that's probably not gonna happen.

Who thinks in the last episode Violet's going to walk in on Spratt and Denker finally kissing--or more than that--in the pantry?

It does make me wonder about another issue with these great households in the 20th century: as time went on and younger staff left for better opportunities (Gwen, Alfred), did the existing staff inevitably age, so it was the elderly serving the elderly?

rainnyc, no I don't think they'll resolve every story. My previous post was a speculation of possible pairings. If I had my wish:

Baxter/Moseley: Moseley really has been taking good care of Baxter, and she has potential to be more than just "damaged goods."

Edith/Bertie: they are compatible, especially after editing the magazine that night.

Isobel/Lord Merlton: Isobel has been so selfless for so long. It's time for her to have some happiness.

Isobel/Violet: I hope they can be friends again. Violet really needs Isobel to balance her.

I don't think we'll see both Mrs. Patmore/Mr. Mason as well as Daisy/Andy. That seems all too neat and tidy. Maybe we'll get one pairing, with the other as a possibility down the road.

As I said before, I like how Spratt pushes Denker's buttons, then just sits back and watches her stew. I don't think they'll make it to romance, but... maybe if Denker can do something nice for Spratt, then he'll see her in a new light.

**Actually, I'd like to see Mary back with Charles Blake, rather than Henry (although Henry is nice to look at). Napier is still pining for her. Maybe Blake and Mary could bond over the pigs again?? Who ranks higher socially? Social status may be a factor with Mary. **Edited now that I have the men sorted out better.

GG: I don't see DA until sometime Monday as well.

So, everybody, get your predictions in now. Those of us on delay will join you late Monday or Tuesday.

Marijen, were you able to see the photo in the previous post? At first it was just a link, but I think I fixed it. I'm trying to get some of the supporting cast for you as well. Here's another for you:

By heads (not rows), left to right, not counting the little girls:

Bates, Edith, SPRATT, Mary, Robert, Cora, Mrs. Hughs-Carlson, Andrew, Mr. Carlson, Thomas, Daisy, Moseley, Mrs. Patmore, DENKER!!, Anna Bates, Mr. Mason, Baxter

Hope that helps.