Still Undecided about radiation
In October I had a lumpectomy for what we thought going in was pure DCIS. The pathologists found a microinvasion in the excised tissue. Because of the microinvasion, 3 radiation oncologists I consulted with are all recommending that I get radiation. All 3 of the radiation oncologists are estimating that my odds of reoccurence without radiation are approximately 2% a year (it would accumulate an additional 2% per year, so at 10 years out it would be 20%). All 3 of them also say any of the long term side effects I raised concerns about were remote, with the odds of incurring any of them being far less then the odds of reoccurence. ( I asked questions about specific types of heart, lung, and rib damage.) I am 61 years old. I am wondering if, with 2% per year odds of cancer returning in the same breast, I might actually end up dying of something else before the cancer returns. Have any of you been in a similar situation? What did you do?
Two other factors I should mention - because of the DCIS only assumption, I did not have a sentinal node biopsy at the time of the lumpectomy. However, the medical oncologist I saw thought the liklihood of having a cancer cell present in a lymph node from a microinvasion was extremely unlikely, and further, did not recommend any type of endocrine therapy, (aromatase inhibitors, tamoxifan, etc) because in her opinion, the risk of side effects from the drugs were greater then any potential benefit to taking them. So if I do not get radiation I will not be getting any post lumpectomy adjuvent treatment.
Comments
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As my primary concern with external beam whole breast radiation is collateral damage to healthy organs, should I be looking at some type of brachytherapy partial breast irradiation that uses implants? What might the side effects of this method be?
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I didn't have any treatments other than lumpectomy for my 1.5cm IDC and am still hanging in there 3 yrs later. My RO kind of talked me out of radiation by printing up a bunch of studies about it not being as necessary for older women -- a controversial opinion --, and pointed out that I was at high risk for heart and lung damage. I figure that if I have a local recurrence, radiation is still an option for me. I'm not taking endocrine therapy either, because I have osteoporosis and couldn't tolerate tamoxifen -- I had some potentially dangerous side effects. I'm still happy with my decision and find that so far, for me, BC hasn't impacted me much at all, whereas heart or lung damage could have affected my quality of life for years. Ultimately, it is your decision, but be sure that you will be at peace with whatever you decide.
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Skeptic, that is exactly my fear...collateral damage to healthy organs AND, I have implants (have for 23 years before diagnosed with Ca) and very little breast tissue. I fear I will burn clear through. Second opinion oncologist agreed with the first: radiation and estrogen blocker. Micronancy, my bones are good so I just started taking Arimidex today. All doctors, including my primary, mention that possible, lone cancer cell moving to somewhere else in my body. I've been told 50 times that radiation is a "standard" method to keep cancer from coming back. But I'm not standard. No cancer in my family anywhere...and I was on hormone replacement therapy for about 20 years. I'm 63 years old...and had pretty much talked myself out of radiation until the second opinion was the same as the first.
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Hi Tammy,
We have no advice, but just wanted to say hi and welcome to Breastcancer.org! We're sorry for the reason you're here, but really glad you stumbled upon our amazing group of really knowledgeable, helpful, and supportive members. We're all here to help you through your treatment decisions and beyond!
Thank you for posting and please keep us posted on what you decide!
--The Mods
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Skeptic,
I follow your logic for not wanting radiation and in your case if you are looking at a recurrence risk of 2% that would not have motivated me to have it either. I'm also 61 and had only DCIS. But I made the decision for rad because 1) it was high grade and 2) I have a strong family history and 3) I pretty much knew I didn't want hormone therapy. I saw only one RO who but my BS also strongly recommended rad.
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skeptic, a lot to consider. I had rads and am now on Tamoxifen. My tumor was very close to my chest wall on the rt side, so that made me lean to rads. For me, I had no severe SE's and hopefully, won't down the road. Now on Tamoxifen instead of al due to osteoporosis. I have been very fortunate with the few SE's I have had throughout my TX. I have no other health issues that I know of. I also have a family history. I have read that the recommendation for rads goes down as we get older. I was 58 at DX. We all have to do what we think is best for our situation. Sometimes it feels like over-kill. Best wishes.
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I talked with the social worker Friday and really explained my fears. She suggested I call the RO nurse and give her a "second chance" to discuss what will actually happen to me with whatever radiation schedule they had planned. I also want to ask about accelerated radiation as I have read on this very site that it has shown to be as effective as the standard schedule in reducing the recurrence risk in early-stage Invasive breast ca. I called today, left a message, and hope to speak with her soon. I am still so unsettled about this treatment.
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Tammy1111, you and I have very similar stats. I, too, am reluctant and wary of going ahead with radiation. I will most likely go ahead with it but the idea of it seems so primitive and counter intuitive
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Askyour RO if you are suitable for the "prone" position if they often that at your facility .... it helps prevent potential damage to the heart and lungs.
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I had partial breast radiation (left side) in a clinical trial and I only had 10 sessions. 2x a day for 5 days at higher doses. That was why I decided to do it when they said I qualified for the trial. Of course, they are still compiling data about whether it is as effective as whole breast rads...we shall see.
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April485, was that brachytherapy
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I found a link that discusses the merits of radiation after finding + lymph nodes, and having a mastectomy. I had 4 micromets which were removed through surgery. It all happened so fast, and I'm not sure it would be my choice again. This article discusses the conditions you should/ shouldn't need radiotherapy.
http://www.clinical-breast-cancer.com/current#/article/S1526-8209(15)00222-0/fulltext?mobileUi=1
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What are. 4 micromets? You mean four cancer cells or 4 mm? Or
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Leslie13, hello! I was unable to open the link that you provided, re: radiation. Can you please check it? Thank you
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if the risks of recurrence are 2% per year without radiation, how low is the risk per year if you get radiation?
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Dr. #1 says reoccurence risk with radiation is 2-3% at 5 years, vs 10% at 5 years without it. Dr. #2 says with radiation the risk of reoccurence at 10 years is " in the single digits". Dr. #3 says the risk of reoccurence with radiation is "less then half" per year of the guesstimated 2% per year risk without radiation.
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thank you Leslie13!!
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It's been a while since I've been back to this site...but wanted to share and update. After a second opinion from a non-affiliated oncologist in a different town (who was companionate but still agreed I should have the rads) AND after talking to my primary NP that knows me and mentioned things like "ya know, weird things happen sometimes after they open you up; HAVE the radiation!" I decided to go ahead. I started last Tuesday, Feb 9th. I was terrified; could hear my heart beating in my ears terrified. Wednesday was easier, then Thursday...and Friday was fine. I got a book on tape for the 40 minute drive each way and all seemed bearable. I enjoyed the weekend "off" but then got a call early Monday that the machine was down. They called and I was able to go in. That night, when changing into my pjs, I inadvertently felt my breast and to my surprise, it was HOT!. After 5 treatments? HOT. So yesterday (Tuesday) I went in and just before I climbed up on the table the tech asked how I was...I told her. She looked at the other tech and said, "that's not normal...not this early." I was pretty upset so I saw the nurse, explained how upset I was, and she left the waiting room, then came back and said my RO wanted to see me. She felt it and the other breast and said, "'yep, it's hot. This is unusual. We can't rule out infection so I'll give you a RX for an antibiotic. And, let's let things settle down. Come on back next Monday." (Next Monday? Really, 5 days without rads? And then we just start up again?) I went to change into my clothes...and that's when I noticed my breast had turned pink. It wasn't pink when I left the house. Today, I spent most of the morning calling doctors and my Insurance "case manager" about what exactly happened to me. Was the radiation heating up my silicone implant and was I getting cooked from both directions? I have an appointment with my plastic surgeon tomorrow. A NP told me my skin could be infected from the radiation....although it was very early for this. The RO also prescribed a steroid for me to take 6 the first day and one less for 6 days.....which I'm not going to take. Honestly, I am pretty much back to where I was before I got my second opinion. If anyone has had similar SE especially if you had implants before surgery and rads, I'd love to know how you coped. Thanks so much.
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"The RO also prescribed a steroid for me to take 6 the first day and one less for 6 days.....which I'm not going to take."
Tammy, I don't really have any advice for you, but I am curious why you aren't going to take the steroid the RO prescribed. It sounds to me (based on experience with RA) that s/he intended a "burst" that you then get immediately weaned off of. Prednisone (the steroid I'm familiar with) can have almost "magical" effects on inflamation when used that way.
Since you would be on it for only the week before you restart rads, why not give it a try?
Wondering...
LisaAlissa
etc: spelling
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So sorry to hear about your experience today. Hoping everything clears up quickly.
I had a bmx for IDC and ILC in 2012. I was prideful about not having rads or chemo. Thought I had avoided both of them and even refused taking tamoxifen. Almost 4 year to the day of first dia. found out my IDC was back. I need to have a lumpectomy but today met with dr who said for sure 39 rad treatments and tamoxifen for 5 years. I do not want to do it for all the same reasons as you and a few more. I am 53 but quality of life issues are huge for me. Dr said because it is my right breast only getting radiation that my heart is nowhere near the beam.
I have some time to get more opinions but reading your experience makes me cringe even more. What if we just do nothing? -
I had implants before rads because I had to have rads after a recurrence so reconstruction had already been done. My breast felt pretty hot each day, and I'd use a thermometer on it (where you just aim at the skin, don't actually touch the skin)... it would be quite hotter than the other breast. I did burn pretty badly by the end, but I was on a very aggressive protocol and got 2 grays per day and had the bolus used every day. It all healed well though, and pretty quickly. I ran a half marathon 10 days after I finished. PS said that after about 3 months, the area would tighten a bit, and it has.
If your RO prescribed a steroid, I also would advise you to take it; it is to reduce inflammation reaction. If you are not going to take it, you at least need to tell him/her. It is ultimately up to you what you do, but you do need to work as a team with your providers and keep them informed about what you're doing or not doing, otherwise they will expect to see the inflammation down and it may not be. They just need to be informed so they can adjust plans accordingly. We always have to work as a team with our providers. That does not mean always blindly doing what they say, but it does mean keeping them informed about what we're comfortable doing or not doing. I know these are hard decisions. Best wishes with whatever you decide.
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In my book, 61 is very young. My mom was 80 at diagnosis and decided against rads at her age.
My sister and I were both Stage 3 - my sister just finished radiation 2 weeks ago. We both sailed
through radiation. I just wrote a blog post about breathing technology and left breast cancer.
My sister had this newer technology - it was not available when I had it.
Wishing you the best and here is the link: https://denise4health.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/radiation-left-breast-cancer-and-deep-inspiration-breath-hold/
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I too have debated what to do. I saw two radiation oncologists and they both felt a wait and see attitude would be a valid choice. In the first 5 years after my surgery my chance of a recurrence would be about 5% and would go to 8% to 10% in ten years. If I have 16 radiation treatments my chance of a recurrence would be reduced to negligible. My husband and kids encouraged me to do it. I went today for the planning session and first treatment. It was no box of chocolates! I had to remain still, in the same uncomfortable position for 20+ minutes. Both shoulders ached and one arm went completely numb. It was painful. Tomorrow I go back and they have assured me the treatment will take only a few minutes. I sure hope so and I hope I'm not so sore I can't get through it. I'm taking Aleve and would advise anyone to take some kind of medication prior to the planning session. I wish I had taken something before my appointment today.
I decided to do the radiation now because if the cancer returns in 5 or 10 years I'll be that much older and that much less able to handle the side effects. I am trying radiation but if the side effects are terrible, (which I doubt because I had pelvic radiation years with no skin problems and only brief fatigue) I will stop the treatment.
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April, I am scheduled to have APBI as well. My Lumpectomy will be March 21, and the internal rads (Contura, I think) will be Mar28, 5 days, 2x per day. Do you have any comments or words of wisdom? I have my apt with my RO tomorrow morningand I am trying to think of questions for him. Thanks!
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My tumor was on the R side, 10:00 position, 1.3 cm. My RO told me that with a Luminal A tumor, node-neg, at nearly 65 I was eligible for external-beam APBI for 16 sessions, rather than the whole-breast 33-session protocol. Sounded like a no-brainer. And it turned out to have been nowhere nearly as traumatic as what friends who’d had the 33-session protocol went through. No fatigue whatsoever. Redness, tanning, some swelling and hardening, but NO irritation, broken skin, blisters or pain. Yes, that breast has a bulge on the side but that’s more due to the seroma from the lumpectomy. The fibrosis is softening, the tanning over the scar is fading, and the redness is now faintly pink--my dermatologist has me using a steroid ointment. I did develop mild lymphedema in my right arm, but it was due as much to having 4 nodes removed and being mildly obese. (The SNB area from which the nodes were removed was NOT within the radiation field).
All in all, I’m glad I took that leap rather than rolling the dice by refusing radiation. I have no fear of lung damage, nor of sarcoma. (Heart damage was not even in the cards, as my tumor was in the R breast).
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