I think my marriage is over
Comments
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Its a good idea to table the matter while you are away with the kids. Please re-read your initial post on this thread and see how it sounds to you. Your husband says you have challenged his core beliefs. Core belief in what? Or is it that you simply challenged him?Also, while you may have been okay at first with his having a so-called working relationship with this other woman, at some point, you became uncomfortable with it and THAT IS OKAY to change your mind about it. In a healthy relationship, a spouse would look to see if their actions are causing hurt or damage to the other person and make adjustments. Instead, your husband is saying thru his actions and words he wants to be able to do what he wants without you questioning him. He's saying you are self destructing? To me, it sounds like he is trying to protect the relationship he has with other woman. His actions are destructive to the relationship between you two.
In a marriage, the husband and wife are the main characters. They are the team. Their relationship is the main one. When someone or something comes along that interferes with that union, it is okay to question what is happening. As a wife you have that Right! It isn't self destructing. It is called asserting yourself.
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so alone,
Sorry to you & your kiddos. Just like being dx with bc, it stinks !
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SoAlone there's no doubt that this disease affects both partners. My local cancer center has free couples therapy as well as individual and support groups. I wanted to reach out to you to let you know there may be resources near you. The rate of divorce increases when a wife is sick so you are not alone. We expect our men to be our long term support like they were the first couple of months and it's not always sustainable. Now you have an added burden to work through based on the co-worker situation. I think that's too much to handle without a third party professional.
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Sorry to hear, but the mere fact that he deleted those messages that included an I miss you would ring the bell for me to get out before you really get hurt. It's a matter of time. He's looking to get out but is probably wondering when since you are battling cancer. If it was nothing, he would have shown you the messages. I know you have kids, but believe me, it's not better for the kids to stay in such a marriage. My parents hung on for years for us kids and it was horrible. I actually was relieved when they split even though I was sad. Kids bounce back. It is far worse for them to see/sense (and they are smarter than what you think) this stuff than to tough it out. And what kind of example is ole daddy here for them if they overhear/find out dad's causing the probs with this coworker that is clearly more than a friend to him?? Best wishes, but if I were you, I'd rethink this working it out. It never works out once one party has one foot already into another relationship. If not her, there will be another..
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Not that it lets him off the hook but he might have feared (even subconsciously) that he was going to lose you. The word "cancer" does that to some people and he might have been looking for comfort or subconsciously planning his life without you. There are so many psychological complications with a life threatening illness that I think counselling is essential. I know people who split up because of it and others who got to the bottom of what was really going on and they kept their marriages.
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He is Gaslighting you. If you haven't heard that term, look it up. I was in a marriage similar, won't go into it too much but I knew something was up. His defense was that I was crazy, and if I didnt stop he would leave me. I really thought I was so paranoid that I was causing all the pro lems. Because...I was gaslighted!
Where are we now? 4 years ago I moved out. I finally realized what was happening and for my own sanity, I had to get out. I knew I wasn't crazy, I k ew something was going on. For us, it wasn't a woman but gambling. He had a 2nd life and was chartering private jets to atlangic city for the last 5 years of our marriage. I had no idea...because remember, I was crazy. NOT! It is not ok what your husband is doing. Don't feel responsible for this.
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What do you know about the Other woman? Is she also married or in a relationship with a significant other? If not, doesn't it make you wonder if she has designs on your husband? If she is married or involved with someone other than Your husband, what does that other man think of the attention she's giving to Your husband? Don't you wonder why she doesn't think it's kind of odd or creepy that a man who's with his wife and kids on vacation or at a holiday party takes time out to text her to say he misses her?
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SoAlone,
He WAS good the first time. He isn't now. He's having an emotional, if not physical affair. If $ is no issue, send him packing. You don't know that he didn't transfer into the new job because of this woman, and everything he's calling stress is really time with her. Men are good at covering their tracks, and anytime you get an angry response to something that's affair behavior (such as "I miss you texts") means he's lying. Even more so is when they turn the mistrust back on you. You're having a Cancer recurrence; he's being a lying scumbag - does it get any lower? A person telling the truth gives brief answers, generally. The exception being someone who's being bullied or mobbed.
Otherwise, the stress and lies will continue. Stress makes fighting Cancer harder and you have your children to think about. And you can't work things out with someone who doesn't want to. Get counseling for you.
I've been alone from partners and family during some serious health issues over the last 10 years because it's easier to rely on caring friends than to feel continually neglected. I've had repeated physical and emotional abuse first in childhood, and later in relationships as I continued to pick men like my philandering, self-absorbed father.
Life is so much easier now, but the first lesson is that you CAN be alone and happy. You'll never trust your husband again, so he will always be a source of duress. And the risks to your health are too high.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Good luck
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I agree with a lot said here,I also have seen these situations in cancer support groups many times.They are sad. I just have to wonder is he texting you that he misses you also? I already know that answer,, he wont leave you right now he will only threaten to keep you in line. He knows what people will say and think about him if he does. You only have one side of the story,,his,,you need her side and you need to get it. She is only getting his side of the story also. You can bet it aint pretty talk.
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I'm sure your husband has many wonderful qualities. It may be that he's having a temporary lapse of judgment because of your cancer. That doesn't matter, though, if he continues to deflect and manipulate and gaslight you. (My ex-husband was also very good at gaslighting.) If he truly thinks that you are the unreasonable one then you need to put very clear, firm, reasonable boundaries into place regarding this other woman. Show him that you are reasonable. Calling her will do no good, by the way. BTDT and it just made me feel even more crazy, which was funny because everyone I know - even my ex-husband now - says I'm a calm, rational person. If your husband has no choice but to be around her at work you can ask that he have no contact with her on a personal level. You CAN and SHOULD be allowed to check his email, texts, and phone records any time you like for a set period of time. Say, a year or so. You should be allowed to drop in to see him at work without notice. He should be required to go to therapy, either on his own or with you, to a counselor of his choice for a minimum of 4 months (or more, as you decide). You need to speak to your own therapist about how to set boundaries and to discuss why you're so willing to take the blame for his behavior.
I have a friend who's been married for about 15 years to a reasonable man. About 7 years ago, he started an emotional affair with an ex-girlfriend from high school. They nearly divorced but my friend put boundaries into place (similar to the ones I posted above) and her husband followed them, knowing it was his last chance to stay married. They are great now, because her husband knew he was in the wrong, he had dug the hole he was in and he had to dig his way out. I haven't seen you say that your husband has admitted he was wrong. Has he? This is pretty critical to your chances to repair your marriage.
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I just looked up the term "gaslighted" and OMG! That is so what is going on here. He has me believing my "craziness" is the problem and I was actually believing him! I never thought he would have me question my sanity. I am at a total loss.
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I totally agree with Leslie13...
SOALONE I was in a very similar situation years ago....These type of people BRAINWASH you..
As I look back I know I did the right thing and I never regretted about my decision throwing him out..And NO it wasn't that easy but it was the right thing.....
I was just given birth and had a toddler..I don't believe for the children's sake is a healthy reason to stay with him and put yourself and your children under these stressful situation...
Good Luck
Sheila
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Gaslighting is a brilliant term for it and it is exactly what you are describing to us..........he is very good at it and you are very vulnerable and hurt right now so please get your therapist to help you with this.......I think SummerAngel is right on the ball with her suggestions.......good luck......
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The term "gaslight" originated from a 1944 movie called Gaslight starring Ingrid Bergman (and Angela Landsbury making her screen debut) in which the sinister husband uses psychological abuse to make the wife believe she's losing her sanity. Great film, by the way.
Look, many husbands, when confronted with accusations of infidelity in one form or another will immediately say to their wife, "you're crazy!" And men will deny deny deny. That's how they are. Your husband may not be sinister, but he is trying to save his ass by making you out to be the one in the wrong. You seem like you might be seeing things a little more clearly and not blaming yourself so much. That's good.
Certainly, a marriage can be salvaged if both parties want that. You will have to see where he stands and how you feel, too. Best wishes to you as you sort things out.
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I'm done fighting, nobody wins. He knows what I need him to do in order for us to move forward, the ball is in his court at the moment. He is so strange right now, he can't even look at me but yet he is talking about going to my oncology appt with me this week. I don't get it. I'm just going to give him some space. He obviously needs to clear his head and wrap his head around everything that was said by the both of us.
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I dont even dare look up gaslighting but i am sure my exhusband did it. He tried to convince everyone i was the crazy one when he was. It was so scary but i stuck to my guns and left with nothing. But i made it. That was almost 20 years ago. He was a control freak. I was not allowed to speak to anyone or go anywhere.
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Wow. I don't see how it gets better if you give him another chance. You'd be waiting for the other shoe to drop in the future, always wondering and being suspicious. Personally, I'd kick his butt out kids or no kids. Good luck.
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I think doctors use this gas lighting to take the emphasis as to nondiagnosis to say it is in your head you need counselling. Doctors pushed me around in my 20s and 30s none dare to do it now.
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I love him and we have been through so much together. I am not ready to just throw it all away. We have been together for 2o years. That's a long time to throw away. I am willing to work through things, we always have. We have had so many issues that we have been able to resolve. It will never be the same again, but it could still be good, I think. He just needs to decide if we can work things out or not. If we can't work through this, it will be ok too. I have to worry about myself and the kids. They need to know that no matter what happens we will all be ok.
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SoAlone -
I've been married for thirty years. We have been through some incredibly rough times, including with my bc. I'm not easy to live with, but neither is he.
I really love him.BUT if he did the stuff your husband is doing with you his suitcases would be waiting for him by the front door with the locks changed! It doesn't matter if he's been wonderful for 20+ years, it doesn't matter if he's at the end of his rope because you're sick, it doesn't matter if you love him. He's lying to you, threatening you with divorce!?! Saying you're at fault?? One way or another, he's with another woman and making you pay for it. You are being abused. Not physically, but mentally and emotionally.
Nothing is easy. Protect yourself and your kids. If nothing else, do it for your kids. They can't understand what is happening or make it better. You need to be there not only for yourself but for them.
Best of luck. My best friend divorced her husband of 25 years after their daughters were out of the house. Best thing she ever did.
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I don't believe you can actually, legally kick him out of his own house, no matter how much he deserves it. OP, i truly hope that you have contacted an attorney TODAY. You need to know your rights, whether or not you end up in divorce. Many women have been blindsided to find that their husband ran away with assets before they had a chance to act. Don't count in him to do the right thing by you. He may have already hired his own attorney and set the wheels in motion.
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SoAlone - I have been following this post and thought I would offer my thoughts because I sort of get where you are at...a little bit. My DH did the same sort of thing 2 yrs ago. He was texting this bar tender from his works favourite restaurant...just seemingly harmless stuff until it wasn't. It was emotional cheating. I didn't leave. It's easy for people to tell you to...leave everything you have worked hard to get, fear your income, your extended family...my youngest was about to start university and we been together for 22 yrs. he promised it was done, that he loves me. We are still together but I want you to know that things have never been the same. Trust is like a mirror and once it's cracked it can never be seamlessly repaired. I will never trust him as I did before but only you know what you can live with. I'm thankful that my DH has been here with me through my BC but there are times I wonder if I really made the right decision. Good luck to you
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We aren't licensed therapists. We offer support but it is not professional advice from a trained therapist. I know couples who've worked thru infidelity of the emotional and physical kind (you would be shocked at what my husband's brother did to his wife and they're still together).
I am glad our support helped SoAlone see that her concerns were/are valid. That is important because her husband was trying to make her feel like she was wrong to question him. He was indignant and threatening her with divorce claiming she threw the marriage away. Many of us have the viewpoint that he was up to no good.
They have been married many years and there is so much we cannot begin to know about them as individuals and as a couple. I hope for the best. This can be worked out over time or it can be the beginning of the end. That will be up to them. I hope it all works out for SoAlone. -
Deleted texts can be found by an order from a judge, I think, and a good lawyer would request them. If those texts were innocent, then he would have left them. A good man would have invited you to meet her, maybe at a small gathering of his co-workers? Then, also a good man would have drawn you o him, looked you in the eyes, and tell you that there was nothing going on with her. He may have been a good man when you found him, but some people just cannot deal with illness, and what it does to their own thoughts on mortality.
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Wow, this is a fascinating thread. A lot of amazing stories. I will say there are things worse than being single, and that is being in a miserable marriage. I sometimes wish every friend I had would give me the green light to run, but in the end my hubby is a charmer and tries his best, and after my recent SLNB surgery, I came to consciousness with an absolute command in my head that I have to stick it out, he's my mate for life. I've learned to live with his problem telling the truth but at times I just want to scream, it's always about dumb things, like having the taxes under control or being on top of the rentals. And then I find out it's a big ol' mess and a giant expense coming down the pipeline. I am learning to be more assertive with him and lately my mantra is that I may have to keep my commitment, but I don't have to put up with certain behaviors. We haven't had any near-infidelity in more than 10 years, because when it did happen, I somehow instinctively knew, I woke up in the middle of the night with a dream, and then had the dream the second night, and went on his computer and found the emails. An ex-girlfriend he was stringing along because she was threatening suicide. He told her he was wounded in combat and that's why he couldn't sleep with her... and he was married to me because I didn't like nooky. Hahaha. Sad. After he broke it off with her, she called me asked if that was really true? I just hung up. Sometimes I look back and wish I had walked away then. We've worked it out, we've both grown a lot, he does love me and has been a real trooper through the past 6 months of cancer-ola. He wouldn't dare try a girl on the side, knowing my intuition would have me furious waking him up in the middle of the night like last time. Last thing I will throw out here, there is a book I read years ago, The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, that has been rather profound for me... it's basic message is that men are simple, feed them good food, sleep with them as often as possible and give them lots of pats on the head -- approval and stokes to their ego -- and they will do anything for you. That last part is really hard sometimes, but I do know when I do it my hubby perks up and it is very sweet. And when I consider his background and upbringing, I know a lot of his terrible habits are PTSD, and sometimes he even has nightmares at night. That makes it easier to forgive. I hope whatever you decide you will know with confidence you are doing the right thing. No one is perfect, no marriage is perfect, and cancer totally sucks!
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Thanks for all the input ladies. I truly appreciate it. I have no idea what I am going to do or even what I want at this moment in time. I take my promises seriously, my word is golden. Anyone who knows me knows that. With that being said, I made a promise, a commitment in front of God and our family and friends to be with him, so I need to know that I tried my best before walking away. He keeps threatening to leave, and a part of me wants to say, "there's the door, you know how to use it" but then I think about the kids. Not in the matter of staying together because of them, but more like, if we break up the both of us need to be rational enough to sit down together and explain it to the kids. I don't want a he said/she said to them, they need to know that we both tried and it didn't work and we came to this decision together.
I don't think he will ever admit to the gas lighting or even the fact that it is wrong for him to have so many female friends. Apparently, he has so many female friends because they all feel safe around him, after all he is so in love with me that they know their flirting will never cross any lines. Gee, that makes me feel wonderful. These women have no regard for my feelings or how their (his and the women's) actions can effect me. I should just be strong and confident that nothing will ever happen, even though they all talk about it. I can't do this anymore. I meet with my therapist this morning and I will try to wrap my head around everything. My priorities are my health and my children. I have to stop losing sleep over this crap.
Thanks again!
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I'm impressed with the way you are handling it. Your kids are lucky to have such a thoughtful rational mom. With your attitude I believe things will even out...with or without him. All the best
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SoAlone, it's okay to not know what you are going to do at this point. It's a good thing to be taking time to sort out your thoughts and feelings. I'm glad to read that you'll be discussing things with a therapist.
Your initial post mentioned your husband being chummy with one female coworker and now your most recent post has morphed into "he has so many female friends" and you mention all the flirting he does with them, ect. Not only is that a huge red flag, but it also goes to show that we really don't know the whole story of what you're dealing with. And maybe you are only now admitting to yourself that there's been a problem for awhile and you need to deal with it instead of being in denial of it. Continued best wishes to you
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The DivineMrsM, you are right. There is so much more going on. My focus has been on this one woman because she is the one he is texting with, she is the one he refers to as his future wife. She is the catalyst in all of this. He has always had female friends, I never had any issue with any of them, because as far as I know it has never crossed any lines. This one feels like lines have been crossed. We are both flirty by nature so him flirting with women never bothered me. I was always very confident in our relationship.
He came home from work this morning and hugged me as if nothing happened. I can't deal with his head games. He either wants to work on us or he doesn't. This hot and cold thing isn't working for me. Like I said, I want to work things out, but I refuse to play his game.
I am off to see my therapist now, lets see what revelations I have with her. But in the meantime, I will keep the peace for the sake of my children. When he sees his games aren't working then and only then can he and I sit down and talk seriously about our future.
My friends think this is really sad. One told me yesterday she doesn't know what to do for me, I didn't need all this friend therapy with cancer but I need it with my husband. How sad is that?
Anyway, thanks again ladies.
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Amen to your last two lines!!!!!
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