Help please! Need basic info and recommendations

Leighku · December 2015

Hello everone. I wasted another day today researching what to eat/not eat and what products are safe for ER/PR+ beast cancer patients. I am 46, almost a 1 1/2 year post dx, completed mx, hysterectomy, chemo and now on Arimidex. All I see these days is what foods and products can endanger my life (and my 5 childrens future health)...apparently they are everywhere. I research what I can but the task seems endless. I just read on here tea tree oil and lavender may cause problems for ER+ women....what? This is getting crazy. I need to get some basic info and get on with living my life instead of worrying about it. So..if you have a few minutes...please share the the suggestions you believe in the most or have verified through research/onc advise. Thank you so much.

The few things I think I can rely on as I haven't heard any negative things about them yet...

More cruciferous veggies and seeds

Avoid sugar/processed foods and alcohol

Exercise and reduce body fat

Avoid products in plastics containers (does this means my beloved Keurig coffee should go?)

Use coconut oil for body lotion

Use paraben free lotions and care products

Throw out the Secret with aluminum and use just baby powder or deodorant (just learned of new product on Shark Tank caller Piper Wai...ordered it)

Take Vit D3, Calcium and Tumeric

Thank you for your help.

exbrnxgrl · December 2015

Hi Leighku,

It can be confusing, contradictory and exhausting to try to figure out the "ideal" diet to prevent bc recurrance. The problem is that there is no certainty. There is stronger evidence to suggest some things help over others and little evidence to suggest how much or how little of certain substances can be harmful or helpful.

You've listed many things conducive to a healthy lifestyle. For me, the thing has been to balance happiness and convenience over possible good or harm. I do enjoy sweets and alcohol when I want, because the pleasure they bring is better than the stress of not enjoying them (just not everyday:). I still use my Keurig because I live alone and it's a fast and easy way to get my coffee as I'm running out the door for work. I have switched out my food storage plastics for glass, but if the occasional bit of food comes along in plastic, I don't stress. I had used paraben free body products and hair products long before my bc dx. I will not give up my antiperspirant. My late sister always smelled a bit stale and unwashed, especially on hot days (see info about sister, below). For me, being compulsive about these things would cause far more stress and far less happiness. Everyone must find their own comfort level with these things, and personal experience is bound to color how you view it.

My younger sister lived a clean lifestyle for well over 30 years and she was compulsive about everything. Shortly after her 50th birthday she was dx'ed with uterine cancer and passed away within 4 months of the dx. Yes, this is one persons experience and scientific evidence of nothing, but it has certainly colored my thoughts on moderation and balance in all things and the importance of happiness and pleasure over orthodoxy. Take care.

ruthbru · December 2015

Hi Leigh, as someone who researched everything obsessively in the beginning, I am going to give you the advice, which I finally followed myself, which is to shut down the computer and just live. (I finally figured if I worried about doing everything 'right', I would die of a stress induced heart attack or stroke long before cancer got me!).

Of course a person should try to live a healthy lifestyle, and not only for cancer risk-reduction, but there are people who do everything wrong and never get cancer & people who do everything right who do.....so it is way more complicated than not wearing deodorant or eating only fish (or whatever). I think the key is moderation/moderation/moderation.....while still enjoying life! As to your points:

* Yes, of course eat more veggies/fruit/nuts etc. everybody in the world would be healthier if they did

* Yes, don't eat too many processed and sugary foods, although an occasional cheeseburger/donut/ french fry is not going to hurt you. The same with alcohol; it is unwise for anyone to drink too much, but a glass of wine/beer/ gin & tonic every once and awhile is not going to make a difference (unless one has an alcohol problem, of course).

* ABSOLUTELY reduce body fat and exercise RELIGIOUSLY. Exercise is the BIGGEST non-medical thing you can do to lower your chance of recurrence (and a lot of other health problems besides....plus it is good for your mental health too).

* Yes, don't microwave food in plastic containers. No, I am not giving up my Keurig. My one cup of coffee brewed in it every day is not going to kill me......I guess if I were drinking 7 cups a day from it maybe I should worry (or use my regular coffee maker!!!).

* I am not going to worry about what is in my lotion or makeup.....I just don't have the time or energy for it. Plus I don't feel like having dried out, cracked skin. Same with deodorant.

* Yes, get some extra calcium with Vitamin D, take a good multi-vitamin while you are at it.

* The other thing to ask your doctor about is taking a daily low dose aspirin. There has been research the indicates that it actually may reduce cancer risk.

* Now, go make yourself a nice cup of coffee in the Keurig, or have a glass of wine, and break the spell.....be a little mindful but ENJOY the things that make life fun!

Leighku · December 2015

Thank you exbrnxgrl and ruthbru! I was frustrated earlier when I read about the tea tree oil after just starting to use (and enjoy) it. So many things I started using just to hear they may not only help me...but may actually harm me. It is so frustrating. I loved both of your advice and plan to take it to heart. I just have to accept I am not in control of this.

ruthbru · December 2015

Several years ago, exbrnxgrl and I enjoyed a lovely evening filled with lots of laughs, rich food, delicious desserts, and several refreshing gin & tonics. We are both still here, so must be doing something right (I'm thinking it's the laughter..... Happy ).

exbrnxgrl · December 2015

Ruth,

That was a lovely evening. I believe that since we enjoyed every minute of it, including drinks and food, that we put those darn cancer cells in their place! Have a happy New Year.

Caryn

Momine · December 2015

Ruth and Caryn, I am with you on this. I do make an effort to mind my diet and get my exercise. But the longer I live with this thing, the more I am inclined to the view that the most important thing is to be happy and have fun. It may not make us live longer, but we will certainly live better. 5 good years beat 50 rotten, sour ones hands down. I also find that being useful and accomplishing things greatly contribute to keeping a good state of mind. Obvious perhaps, but something I have become more mindful of after cancer.

ruthbru · December 2015

Absolutely! And I think a positive thing that can come out of this is the mindfulness of which Momine speaks. If there are fun, interesting, helpful, important, even crazy things I want to do 'someday', I better do them NOW!

LM070917 · December 2015

Dairy is also a big contributor/ risk to ER positive BC, due to the additional hormones in our milk, yogurt, cheese etc.. I cut this out as soon as I was diagnosed. Research has been based on Japan and China having the lowest rates of bc in the world, whereby they don't use dairy in their diets. This is comparative to Belgium, Denmark and the netherlands, whereby they have the highest rates in the world an incorpate a lot of dairy in their diets. Obviously there could be other factors involved such as increased alcohol use but it is interesting... Almond/oat and soya (in mod) are good alternatives.

MelissaDallas · December 2015

Lottemarine, high fat dairy is what consistently shows to be a problem in studies. That has not shown to be the case with low fat dairy. Low fat dairy could be a better option than soy. Many women with estrogen positive cancer limit soy

ruthbru · December 2015

If you don't do dairy, you need to make sure you get your calcium elsewhere. As you might guess, I enjoy my dairy products in moderation, but I would be nervous to have my main source of calicum be soy.

Kathy044 · December 2015

Besides the calcium in soy milk comes from added supplemental calcium carbonate -- better to just take Tums. I do.

ETA an informative BCO Think Pink Live Green column that I read several years ago on plant based milk substitutes written by Dr Marisa Weiss.

http://community.breastcancer.org/livegreen/plant-milks-seeking-%E2%80%94-and-finding-%E2%80%94-worthy-alternatives-to-dairy/

Kathy

ivy2 · December 2015

Thanks for the posts! I am at the beginning of this road and have been madly researching everything. It's nice to see some common sense to contrast with all of the scary information out there. I'm trying to be realistic about what I can achieve daily.

pipers_dream · January 2016

Oops, just caught this: " I wasted another day today researching what to eat/not eat and what products are safe for ER/PR+ beast cancer patients. "

This is never a waste of time and is information you will need for the rest of your life, which preferably will be longer.

BeachLife · January 2016

I have been following some of the discussions and learned a lot from here. Now I would like to share some info. I have always loved Chamomile tea for reducing anxiety and helping with sleep, etc. The last two months, I have been including it in my enema often with coffee. I came across the following info on apigenin. Apigenin in chamomile tea and other foods (parsley, onions, apples, celery roots, orange jiuce……）fight cancer of thyroid, breast, etc. Hope this helps. Take care everyone

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/mediterranean-diet-...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive...

ChiSandy · January 2016

I didn't give up dairy--in fact, I didn't even switch to low-or-non-fat dairy because they have much higher amounts of sugars (even the Lactaid-treated ones). Small amounts of full-fat ORGANIC (no hormones, no antibiotics, totally grass-fed) dairy are good for you--especially Greek yogurt made from nothing but organic milk and live active cultures. When I drink milk (usually for homemade cappuccino or on paleo granola) I drink FairLife because it's hormone-and-chemical-free, with half the sugar and 30% more protein. I found by trial and error over the years that I gain weight if I eat foods that are high in sugar or starches (that become sugar). That's why Weight Watchers stopped working for me by my late 20s; and why every time I tried to be vegetarian or vegan I gained weight. The low-fat diet craze that began in the 60s and exploded in the late '70s is probably more than any other phenomenon responsible for the obesity epidemic--because the packaged food industry replaced fats with sugars and simple starches. Ditching most sugars & starches, without cutting down on fats, caused me to lose almost 50 lbs. over 3 yrs.

I nuke in glass, hard (inert, no BPA or phthalates) plastic or ceramic dishes. And I have found conflicting information even on reputable sites about which foods are and are not safe to eat for ER+ patients. Point is if you eat a variety of foods that are generally healthful, in sensible portions, you will not be eating sufficiently harmful amounts of anything. One thing everyone can agree on is that if the ingredients list of a food reads like the list of inactive ingredients of a drug...think twice about eating it. If sugar in any form is among the first 4-6 ingredients, skip it. If corn syrup (regular or especially HFCS) is in it, pass it by. You'd be surprised about the origins of many food additives--some of them are byproducts of industrial chemical manufacturing; much of it is derived from corn because USDA policies during the late 1960s, designed to benefit agribusiness (and especially the corn and soybean industries) resulted in corn surpluses so large it was impossible to sell enough of it for use as a pure food. As for caffeine, if it's naturally occurring in coffee, tea, chocolate or maté it's fine if not consumed in excess. But the caffeine in soda pop and energy drinks? Very, very little of it comes from caffeine removed by decaffeination of coffee & tea (that caffeine tends to go into pharmaceuticals). Guess where most of it comes from? It's synthesized........from urea. Yup--disgusting, no? And the majority of that is imported from China.

Best advice comes from Mark Bittman (or was it Michael Pollan): if it comes FROM a plant, great. If it was made IN a plant, forget it. Also Bittman's mantra: Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. (But notice he didn't say “exclusively" plants).

ChiSandy · January 2016

Oh--and why is sugar bad for cancer patients in particular? (Simple dietary sugar is bad for everybody in general). While it’s true that cancer cells need glucose, so do all your other cells. That’s why the digestive system eventually converts everything you eat (except pure insoluble fiber) that doesn’t get burned up or stored as fat into glucose. No, what makes sugar (and simple starch that is rapidly converted into it) bad for cancer patients is that it is a (if not the) major factor in causing obesity. And obesity is not just overweight, but overFAT. (“Weight" includes bone, muscle and water, too). So why is that bad, especially for patients with ER+ tumors? Because fat cells make estrogen. (Actually, along with adrenal glands, they make androstenedione, which the enzyme aromatase converts to estradiol, a type of estrogen). In women without functioning ovaries, fat cells are the body’s main producers of estrogen, followed by the adrenal glands. ER+ tumors thrive on estrogen, and aromatase inhibitors don’t necessarily prevent 100% of estrogen production. If they did, it wouldn’t matter how fat we got, or how much alcohol we drank (alcohol inhibits the liver from clearing estrogen from the body)--at least not in terms of cancer (we’d still have to deal with stuff like heart disease, arthritis and cirrhosis). But because we can’t get rid of all the estrogen (and tamoxifen can’t completely block off 100% of all the tumor cells’ estrogen receptors, excess body fat is bad news. Unfortunately, one byproduct of drastically slashed estrogen supply is slowed metabolism.......which means it takes more exercise and lower caloric intake (or at least lower sugar intake) just to keep weight steady--and it’s toughest for those of us already obese at diagnosis.

grandma3X · February 2016

Leighku - I agree, it's like navigating a minefield. I was diagnosed a few months ago and I think that food intake is the only thing I have any control over! There seems to be a lot of misinformation and half-truths as well, especially from websites that promote "cancer cures". I now try to get all of my information from peer reviewed research (pubmed or medline, for example) but even then it's not easy to make decisions about which foods should be avoided.

Take cruciferous vegetables for example. Broccoli, cauliflower and Brussel sprouts are really good for you and may help prevent cancer, but they also have been shown to activate enzymes that metabolize aromitase inhibitors (meaning that if you eat a lot of these, your AI is not going to be as effective)! Carrots, on the other hand, are high is sugar, but they also inhibit the activity of this same enzyme - so eating carrots may help to keep AI blood levels higher.

Then there's vitamin C - good or bad? I take my 1000 mg vitamin C every day, but a paper came out in Nov. showing that antioxidants actually disrupt the immune system's ability to identify and kill circulating cancer cells in mice. So now I've stopped taking high doses of vitamin C and just take a multivitamin with 100% the daily allowance.

I agonized over giving up dairy, but the science is clearly not there to show that low fat dairy is unhealthy, and the calcium and vitamin D in milk have been shown to decrease the risk of cancer. The amount of estrogen in skim milk is negligible, and growth hormones such as IGF-1, if they make it through the pasteurization process, are broken down during digestion. That being said, I do buy hormone-free milk, just because I like to support local organic farmers.

I think that the advice given above - to eat a balanced diet, excercise and maintain a healthy weight is probably the best approach. I'm a newbie here, but the only foods that I know of that have been scientifically and consistently linked to breast cancer are high alcohol and soy consumption. I'm being treated at a breast center which includes nutrition counciling. I have not met with nutritionist yet, but will let you know if I find out anything specific in terms of what to avoid.

Help please! Need basic info and recommendations

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