ILC-Specific Questions in Making Treatment Decision

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Comments

  • Marmie
    Marmie Member Posts: 9
    edited November 2015

    hello 614! Yes! Totally caught off guard. Complacency was my middle name for years. How'd you get your PLCIS to post in your diagnosis section?

    They found and removed one PLCIS w stereo static biopsy and found another w lumpectomy. Was going to publish it but it wasn't allowing me the choice.

    I'm glad your daughter's lump was ok

  • Girl53
    Girl53 Member Posts: 225
    edited November 2015

    I third the post re: needing evidence before making categorical, frightening statements. Recently, I visited the director of breast surgery at Johns Hopkins Baltimore for a second opinion re: my small ILC. This is one of the best breast centers in the country....not a "one-trick pony" practitioner.

    Don't recall all details of conversation, but do remember that doc made reference to "(scary) things we USED to say about lobular histology." Based on my limited understanding, ILC and IDC are indeed different, but saying that radiation not effective for ILC is, I think, probably not reasonable.

    I am all for taking responsibility, for advocating for specific condition, and learning all we can. I'm an anxious, info-seeking type, and I have never just left my care decisions to my physicians. But we need to be circumspect here about generalized interpretations of material read elsewhere, and of drawing conclusions based on piecemeal data, or out of context (I've done this a lot in my life). Sometimes, what feels "intuitive" when we are afraid and upset is not really sound. It's hard to know.

    At points in my BC journey so far, I have both said and heard from others things that, later, I recognized were at least as driven by fear as by facts. These exchanges can deeply affect our evaluation of our personal situation, and our treatment decisions. The stuff we post here can influence newly diagnosed folks looking for reliable information, as well as longer-timers who thought they had a decent grip on their disease type and treatment decisions.

    Again, all for being knowledgeable...just want to be careful.


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2015

    Well said Girl53. I can think of other threads where this should be pointed out. Thanks.

  • Woodylb
    Woodylb Member Posts: 1,454
    edited November 2015

    Girl53,

    I just came across your first post about your ILC. I read most of the responses posted in September. Some where good advise while others were a bit irresponsible. I was diagnosed with ILC age 52. My tumor was smaller than yours and when the surgeon found out it was invasive , he went in with another surgery to check the surrounding tissues and the sentinel nodes . Well , 23 nodes were removed 21 were positive for metastatic disease. So i went from stage 0 to stage III B . Scans and all sort of things to check for mets there were none.

    After a full cycle of chemo ACT and radiation i was put on femara ( aromatase) since i was postmeauposal. Three years later it is back with vengeance 2014. Liver mets and later after ARomasin bone mets. My PR positivity gone, ER still positive but lower.

    Most of the therapies did not do much , until i had a genomic tests done on my liver specimen. It helped with the choice of most likely chemo from which i could benefit and it also confirmed by CISH. that my cancer had turned HER 2+ which showed nedgative after two FISH testing.

    I am now with with no evidence of disease , stopped chemo since a year almost, i am only doing on targeted therapy for HER2 and tamoxifen since i had two AL and they both failed me. Both my oncs said i could still benefit from tamoxifen and till now it is holding better than aromasin. He said before AL. Women got tamoxifen whethere pre or post menaupose .

    What i am trying to say there are no specific rules for cancer specially ILC. Each cancer is different and have many subtypes , it is so heterogenous which make each one of us unique not one patient is like another. What worked for me may not work for you , even if we seem to have the same cancer the same stage the same anything we are each different.

    The best is to listen to your doctors do some research but do not count on statistics and numbers as most of them are outdated and random and not individualized. The most important thing is to like your onc, trust him or change him/her.

    Have faith most of this disease relies on hope and faith the smaller part are the meds.

    I hope you do well in making the right decisions and get the right treatment for your specific cancer , eradicate cancer and go on to live a long healthy life.


  • artistatheart
    artistatheart Member Posts: 2,176
    edited November 2015

    girl and Woody, Very good posts.

  • Girl53
    Girl53 Member Posts: 225
    edited November 2015

    Woodylb: Thanks so much for your reply to September post w/questions about ILC. It sounds like you have been through a great deal and have come through it well and with faith. Will pray for your continued healing and strength. Am so glad to hear about the genomic test whose results provided guidance about effective therapy.

    It does seem that our cancers, and journeys, are each unique, while we also share a lot of things. I agree that we need to do research; "listen to our gut," so to speak; find a doctor we trust and listen to him or her; and then try not to second-guess, and live life.

    This all feels so hard at the beginning, when the fear is new and overwhelming. I have a lot of BC in my family, and those associations intensify my fear. I also had a wonderful husband who died of a brain tumor; we went through 14 years of uncertainty around that, which also fuels cancer anxiety for me. Am trying to be realistic and optimistic...aware of no guarantees, but hopeful.

    Will be thinking of you.

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited November 2015

    Dear Marmie:

    I had a hard time trying to figure out how to use the signature line too.  I think that I went into "settings" and was able to write something in the "signature" line.  I remember having to change the icon to the one that looks like an eye so that others could see what I wrote.  I don't really remember how I did it, but I hope this helps.  Good luck.

    Dear everyone else:

    I like everyone's posts.  They are really helpful.

    I am having my next Mammogram, Sonogram, and MRI on Monday, 11/23/15.  I cannot wait.  The tests will give me peace of mind no matter what the outcome.  I currently have one suspicious area (1.8cm linear non-mass enhancement with rapid washin washout kinetics) that was detected in May that could not be biopsied at the time.  I am on a 6 month wait and watch protocol.  I also have a golf ball sized hematoma from my MRI guided biopsy that was performed in May.  This has been a very long 6 months for me.

    Good luck to everyone here and Happy Thanksgiving.

  • Woodylb
    Woodylb Member Posts: 1,454
    edited November 2015

    Girl53,

    I am so sorry about your all ordeal and journey with cancer , whether your family or loosing your husband. You sure have a lot to worry about. But there is always hope and with time we learn to live and adapt to things. I sense your courage , common sense and love for life. I am sure you will be in a good place and who knows maybe be beat it. You will be in my prayers , sending you healing thoughts and a little light of hope.

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited November 2015

    Dear Marmie:

    You may have to change the icon from the eye to the world icon. I don't remember which way. Good luck.

  • JerseyGirl22
    JerseyGirl22 Member Posts: 342
    edited November 2015

    Ok, just gonna put this out there... MY onc stated MY ILC became aggressive, it didn't start out that way, as somewhere along the line the nickel sized fibroid cyst I'd had for 20 years changed over. They think the trigger may have been when I had the last of 2, 5 year IUDs removed. The cyst felt the same at the end of last Nov., but within a few months seemed to grow quickly...the OB/GYN thought is was my body adjusting to hormones, monthly, etc... That said, one doc, looking at my charts, said, if I hadn't had the IUDs, it probably wouldn't have grown much until I hit menopause or later, as most ILC is found in women over 60... I stopped him at that point and told him might want to look at the last 10 years and see that the numbers have changed dramatically for ILC detection and the women are younger...

    Anyway, my onc states that ILC can become aggressive, not is aggressive...

    Prayers appreciated. They moved my surgery date for BMX to Nov. 30th... prepping, prepping! Thanks for being out here everyone...

  • Marmie
    Marmie Member Posts: 9
    edited November 2015

    frustration! My insurance company did not pay for the genetics testing and without a spare $3,000 to pay for it out of pocket , I do not have that test to aid in my decision process. Going this Tuesday for MRI instead to see if anything "lights up".

    Without the genetics, doc was not in favor of BMX. His recommendation was lymph node biopsy followed by radiation. I'm not wholly comfortable with that. At the very least - with that right breast having ILC, PLCIS, LCIS, and cell hyperplasia , I want the right breast gone.

    I explained to him wanting resolution before the end of the year due to insurance deductible and out - of - pocket expenses being met. He said he understands that but the decisions I have to make are serious ones and should be based on complete information. He said the decisions I make cannot be rushed.

    I burst into tears after he left. I went into that appointment with a plan (in my mind) and was left with more waiting and more uncertainty. I naively thought this process would be easy and clear cut!! Hahaaa!

    My next appt is Dec 1 to get MRI results. I'm not sure what he means about the cancer lighting up!

    It's all so confusing and fills me with panic to get things done quickly but I don't want to be driven by emotions. I need facts. If the MRI is inconclusive , I guess I will have to make a decision based on what I DO know, not what I fear may happen.

  • Chloesmom
    Chloesmom Member Posts: 1,053
    edited November 2015

    can you get a second opinion? I had a doctor that didn't want to do BMX. I didn't want rads as I didn't want possible SE they can cause like frying my lung or heart or the anxiety of future mammos. Got an appt at Hopkins a week later. The doctor there said he needed to say "if you had colon cancer we wouldn't take out your whole colon".but he would do what I wanted. I explained my reasons and he agreed to honor them.

    Saw him 12/1. Had Bmx. 12/12

  • Woodylb
    Woodylb Member Posts: 1,454
    edited November 2015

    Marmie,

    My insurance company did not pay at all for the genomic testing. I paid a full 6,000$ for the test. It was worth it for me. Since it showed that i am her2 + even after a FISH done twice which came out negative.

    I am ILC, and i have LCIS in my right breast. I had a lumpectomy first which showed positive lymph nodes. So had another surgery sentinel dissection and he explored all the area and what he found was shocking. My original tumor was less than 1 cm and what he found was 23 nodes from which 21 were positive for metastatic cancer. But after the second operation my margin were clear, however i went from stage 1 to stage III . So i did full cycle of chemo ACT followed by radiation which effect my lung capacity by 5% but did not have a big impact really and i am a heavy smoker. Then we discussed mastectomy and the surgeon explained to me that removing my breast will only discrease my chance of local reoccurrence by 10% . So i seeked a second opnion and a third from Germany. The second doctor said to me all that was needed to be removed is removed the operation is not easy i do not advise to remove it . If after 5 years if you are still cancer free then he will considerate. Germany , well , he said they do not perform mastectomy since 20 years unless the whole breast is full of tumors. They discovered that really it did not make much difference if the cancer wants to come back it will, whether you removed it or not.

    I was put on femara , and at the end of year three i had a reoccurence , i am now stage IV and have been for the last two years. The genomic intellingent testing confirmed my her2 plus it gave the names of chemos and targeted therapies from which i could benefit .

    I am now clear and have been for the past year. I am only on targeted therapy for her2 and tamoxifen . I never regretted not removing my breast , in my case whether i had removed it or not it would have been back.

    At the end it is really a personal decision , just make sure you do what you are comfortable with the help of professionals . Seek different opinions on this then make an informed decision.

    I hope you find your way, relax so you can think clearly even though i know it is very confusing and scary when dealing with cancer but after a while you will adapt and you will start feeling much better. You will be able to tell your doctor what you need and what makes you comfortable. Keep your hope and faith.

  • Chloesmom
    Chloesmom Member Posts: 1,053
    edited November 2015

    I agree with Woody! Take a breath of you can and do what you can live with. A BMX does not statistically increase life expectancy. It's more about how we want to be living the life we have ahead



  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited November 2015

    I was diagnosed with PILC, bifocal PLCIS, invasive tubal carcinoma, as well as the benign conditions of ALH, ADH, sclerosing adenosis, PASH, hyperplasias, and many other benign findings.  My doctor recommended the double lumpectomy, radiation, medically. Induced menopause and then arimidex/anstrazole rather than the bmx.

    It is a personal decision and you need to do what makes you feel the most comfortable. Get a second opinion and fond a doctor who will honor your wishes.

    There is a thread that talks about genomic testing for $299.00. I don't  remember whhich thread but search this site for the info.  

    Good luck.

  • artistatheart
    artistatheart Member Posts: 2,176
    edited November 2015

    Woody, This interests me very much since I too have liver mets and and ILC may need to know in the future if my Her status changes. Maybe I had better start saving now....

  • grandma3X
    grandma3X Member Posts: 759
    edited November 2015

    my BS told me today that 50% of women with ILC in one breast will get it in the other one. Can anyone point to the research to support this? I'm a newby and need to make a decision about BCS vs MX, but I may also consider BMX if this is true. Any thoughts or advice?

  • Chris13
    Chris13 Member Posts: 254
    edited November 2015

    Mamie, the MRI may help show where the cancer(s) are located. Being ILC, I had two that showed in the MRI assisted biopsies, and my BS said there were too far apart to do lumpectomies. When I had the mastectomy, they found two additional tiny tumors. With my DIEP reconstruction, you wouldn't even know I had the mast (except the nipple tatooiing faded a bit.) I don't regreat the MX at all. ILC is multifocal, so it can easily be in more spots, even currently undectable ones.

    Good luck with your decision. Yes, try to get another opinion.

  • Woodylb
    Woodylb Member Posts: 1,454
    edited November 2015

    artist ,

    It is a good idea if your doctor or you suspect it. Me upon my liver biopsy they noticed a chage 2+ in her2 this is why they sent it for FISH testing which more accurate than IHC . BUT even then it showed negativity. So i took the sample to another sample to my country and the same things happenned two pathologist saw it and assereted it was full of her2 but again the test showed negative.

    When sent to germany they performed a test called CISH which is approved by the FDA but not in standard use yet , pharmaceutical politics . This test confirmed i was positive but still my onc did not believe it she called germany and talked to the guy who performed my test , he told her this women is full of her2 , you had better start her right away on her2 targeted therapy. I was on xeloda at the time which was giving me a partial response , sloan kettering advised to add herceptin. By my onc where i reside refused he said i want to start you on herceptin/perjeta/taxol. So he did and the response thank God was more than anyone expected.

    So if you have any doubt or your doctor suspects you may have mutated to her2 it would be a good idea to test again but you need a specimen .

    Let me know if you need any info. I do not believe genomic testing cost 299 if it is a genomic intelligent testing and done at a scientific research facily it would be much more and here it is not covered by my insurance . So search before you do it . It has to be a good scientific facility. It has to be send through a medical center.

  • jojo9999
    jojo9999 Member Posts: 202
    edited November 2015


    Understand your genetic risk for breast and ovarian cancer

    Color analyzes 19 genes—including BRCA1 and BRCA2—to help you understand your risk of developing breast and ovarian cancer. Purchase your Color Kit for $249.

    there are lots of posts on BCO about the $249 genetic test. several women on these boards have used it, try seraching for the posts. The company is Color Genomics, backed by Google and many other tech firms.

  • AmyfromMI
    AmyfromMI Member Posts: 241
    edited November 2015

    Wanted to mention that I recently purchased the color kit for $199 (on special during October for breast cancer awareness month). It took two days for the kit to arrive. And the turn around time for results, including mailing it to them, was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks. My results were negative BTW.

  • artistatheart
    artistatheart Member Posts: 2,176
    edited November 2015

    Thanks Woody, I will keep all of that in mind and plan to ask my Onc a lot of questions regarding that. There is just so much to learn! I would rather be playing my guitar or making jewelry........

  • Woodylb
    Woodylb Member Posts: 1,454
    edited November 2015

    Artist,

    It is your right to ask your onc anything specially if you suspect it. I belive the test jojo s referring to is the BRACA testing. The one i did is totally different it studied each and every aspect of my specific cancer and did not perform the hereditary gene testing which is BRACA.

    I too prefer you to be doing jewelery and playing Guitar and i hope you will soon.

  • artistatheart
    artistatheart Member Posts: 2,176
    edited November 2015

    Thanks Woody, I plan to ask her at my next appointment. I was the one who had to tell her that ibrance came in lower doses and at first she contradicted me until she looked it up. She also said that the SE's of ibrance don't include liver enzyme trouble but it seems to coincide with my elevated numbers? Plus when I told her that I had a rapid heart beat and shortness of breath she seemed dubious, although I feel 100% better on this break. I know they don't know everything and neither do I. Hopefully we can get a good team rhythm going here to stay on top of all the information.

  • Woodylb
    Woodylb Member Posts: 1,454
    edited November 2015

    Artist,

    You should ask her anything and she must be able to answer. If you do not feel comfortable with her or you do not feel she is on top of things, please look for another who more qualified. I hope you will get to a place where you can rely on your doctors more than on yourself. Chemos cause all sorts of side effects not the same on everyone. I think she should have taken your complaints more seriously and also checked why your liver enzymes are elevated if she confirms no progression.

    You are in my thoughts and prayers, no worries though , if you know your body then you will know how you are. Take care of yourself.

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited November 2015

    my liver enzymes were very high, it was Epstein Barr virus, this virus still shows in blod tests but my enzymes have dropped.........

  • artistatheart
    artistatheart Member Posts: 2,176
    edited November 2015

    Thanks Woody, she did send me over to a liver specialist and they are going to team up. I live in a small, snowy mountain town and we have 3 oncologists. I still don't know enough to know if she knows enough......I am sure a large part of it is my general anxiety. But will take your advice and consider that if I continue to feel doubt. I have another blood test Monday to see if the numbers went down on the Ibrance break. In order to try and rest and take care of myself we went to Santa Barbara for the 5 day Thanksgiving break from work. Was so looking forward to soaking up some sunshine but alas, it was FREEEZING!! BooHOo! Spent a lot of time in the hot tub instead and ate too much. Did get a great family photo session on the beach though! Thanks Lily for that info, more food for thought.

  • Marmie
    Marmie Member Posts: 9
    edited December 2015

    hello all. Thank you for your earlier comments and suggestions. I really appreciate it. I did take time to gather more info and when I received the MRI results dec. 1, I was able to make a decision for treatment.

    Left breast was clear. Right breast indicates a 6cm area of extensive asymmetrical, clumped, non mass like enhancements extending from the chest wall to the upper outer quadrant of breast. Some areas with type 3 wash-out kinetics. BIRADS 4.

    While radiologists recommendation was for MRI guided biopsy, Doctor said there is such an extensive, diffuse area that it would be difficult to pinpoint the exact area to biopsy.

    With this information I elected to have the single, right side mastectomy and it is scheduled for December 15! Met yesterday w plastic surgeon. We do not have time to prepare for trans flap so I've elected expander placement.

    I am comfortable with this decision and I know the days leading up to dec 15 are going to be busy! Already rallying my prayer warriors and meal cookers!!




  • Marmie
    Marmie Member Posts: 9
    edited December 2015

    yikes! Just got a call that surgery is moved up to December 11. More time for recovery before cmas but less time to prepare!!

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited December 2015

    Dear Marmie:

    Good luck with your BMX surgery. I wish you the best.

    I had a non-mass enhancement too.  (Linear non-mass enhancement with rapid washin-washout kinetics)My doctor said that it would be difficult for him to biopsy the area because it did not occupy space.  I had another lump as well so my doctor biopsied that lump but he said that the non-mass enhancement wasn't well visualized during the MRI guided biopsy.  I had to wait and watch for 6 months.

    I had the biopsy of the non-mass enhancement on 11/23/15.  (The name changed to non-mass enhancement with progressive kinetics)  It turned out that the area is Atypical Lobular Hyperplasia - 1.6cm X 1.3cm.  (I just finished my radiation in October 2014.  I have had 2 biopsies since - one in May 2015 and one in November 2015.)  Luckily, ALH is benign. 

    Everyone on this thread has been through so much.  My experience is minor compared to what many of you have undergone. I wish everyone here well.  I am sending prayers, luck, positivity, and hugs. 

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