Best way to get screened with dense breasts?
Hi there,
I'm not sure if this is the best forum topic to ask this. I've been monitored for probably 15 years - it started with a fibroadenoma, which has thankfully, not grown at all. Through these screenings with mammo & ultrasound, and doctor exams, a NEW lump had been found (about 2 years ago), and it was biopsied (LCIS found) and consequently removed through lumpectomy. I see my surgeon's medical assistant 2x a year for exam and once a year I get a mammogram. I also have heterogeneously dense breasts. I have questioned the medical assistant many times if I should be monitored with MRI, or something else besides regular mammos (the latest mammogram I had was diagnostic - and sometimes it prompts the radiologist to order an ultrasound to look at an area more closely). I keep getting told that things like whole-breast ultrasound or 3-D mammo is not something for me until maybe next year (also the hospital isn't getting these equipment until then and the physician assistant says insurance probably won't cover it now anyways).. But I worry SO much that because of my dense breasts, the mammogram isn't finding everything. Am I being too overly cautious? Is it worth it to find another doctor (in another hospital system) to just get another opinion? Should I push to get further screenings, even if I have to travel far? Would love your opinions!!!
Thanks!!
EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION: I am not sure if the breast surgeon's assistant is a medical assistant or physicians assistant or if there is a difference between the two. All I know is she isn't the breast surgeon
Comments
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Kayla23, my situation was very similar to yours. I was told that since I had been diagnosed with LCIS, my mammos should always thereafter be diagnostic vs. screening and I always received my results right away. I had to get the media (usually CD) every time I had a mammo, US or MRI and bring it to my breast surgeon for further review. My breast surgeon did clinical exams 2x/year and wanted me to do MRIs yearly 6 mos after each mammo. I only did that a couple of times. I did an ultrasound once...not sure it was especially meaningful because 6 mos after the US I had a mammo and was told I needed a biopsy in 3 areas. Something happened that fast? My mammos have been the 3D variety for years and my ins carrier has never covered it...it's an extra $50 out of my pocket. It's only the incremental delta expense of regular vs. 3D that ins. won't cover. Whatever. FYI, last time I went in for mammo I heard the clerk tell a woman that 3D is now covered under Medicare.
If your gut tells you your not comfortable with the care you are getting, I would look for other options if I were you. I would not be comfortable having just the medical assistant do a clinical exam. Your BS should be doing that and reviewing your breast study images. Make sure the radiologist is aware of your history when you go for mammos and really pours over those images before rendering an opinion. You want all your studies either performed at the same radiology clinic or bring them the history so they can do compares. You should also keep copies of all your studies. Earlier this year I went for a 3D diagnostic mammo and nearly got out of there home free for another 6 mos. I had been told to get dressed and wait for my piece of paper. Minutes later I was called back for more images and told that instead of just benign findings I needed 3 areas biopsied. I have to say that really gave me pause to think about how much of a complicating factor the dense breast thing was for me. It scared me to think that I nearly got out of there with no recommendation for follow up. I ended up doing the biopsies and....it was more LCIS.
Best of luck to you. This crap is worrisome isn't it? After 7.5 yrs of this, 5 core biopsies, 2 excisions, no reduction in breast density, and no further medical consensus or encouraging clinical revelations on this topic, I decided to invoke the final solution. I'm 4 weeks out from PBMX. No regrets. No complications so far and no need to take meds or live my life around 6 mos screening events. It's a highly individual choice and probably took me 2 years to figure out that would be the best course for me. Take care.
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MsVeryDense:
Thank you very much for your reply. Please forgive my ignorance, but what is PBMX?
I actually had an exam and a diagnostic mammogram in the past week. It's really hard to know what is the best way to advocate for yourself. The other I time I had a mammogram, the tech insisted that I wear an x-ray "apron" around my waist so the radiation wouldn't go to my pelvis. She said that she does that for all women of childbearing years. Then when I went this time, I mentioned this to a different tech, and she thought that was ridiculous ("if that were true, you should wear an apron around your face to protect that area too, and all of the staff should wear one as well!"). So it's hard to know who/what to believe or trust. Plus they always say that the amount of radiation you get during a mammogram is equal to the amount you get on a long plane ride or being outside for 1/2 hour. But I digress!
I have a feeling that I am seeing the physicians assistant and not the surgeon due to the hospital cutting costs? Not sure.
Also how does one go about finding another doctor? One that really gives a damn?
Thank you so much - I wish you great health!
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Kayla, your history plus breast density might qualify you for a yearly diagnostic digital mammogram (or 3D mammo if available) and yearly breast MRI, alternating so you have one or the other every six months. That's a standard plan for some. I wouldn't be happy being denied a test simply because the facility didn't have the equipment. If there is a local breast cancer support group, maybe you could ask the women there what doctors they like and where they get screening done. I don't mind getting some of my exams from a physician's assistant or nurse practitioner as long as they have experience. In fact I figure that if more than one person checks, it's a good thing. I hope you can have a good discussion with a breast surgeon or oncologist about what screening plan is best for you and why, so you can feel more comfortable.
(PBMX=prophylactic bilateral mastectomy)
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Thank you ShetlandPony
I am also unclear what kind of doctor I should be getting a second opinion from - if it's a oncologist or a surgeon. I'm confused
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Dear Kayla:
You should always get a 3D diagnostic mammogram with an ultrasound if you have dense breasts. Since you have LCIS, you should probably have an MRI alternating with the mammo/sono every 6 months. However, insurance may only cover the 2D mammo and you would have to pay extra for the 3D, as MsVeryDenseBreasts stated above. It is well worth the extra money. It is also worth paying for the US and the MRI, if one is ordered. The US and the MRI would give you peace of mind.
Good luck.
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Hi 614-
I am not sure if I should keep insisting on these additional tests with my current surgeon/physician assistant, or to just get another opinion with another practice altogether.
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Kayla23, re: the apron thing for mammo radiation protection....all I know is that any time I've ever gone for one, wearing the apron has been the standard of care at the radiologist I go to. Once a tech forgot to put it on me and was very chagrined about it. I'd rather be careful than not and would insist on it.
Re: looking for a new doc.....not sure what city you are in. If your city has a city-wide magazine that rates the docs annually by speciality, start there and then check Health Grades and other crowd sourcing sites that tell you the docs education, years in service, what ins. they take, patient reviews etc and ask around.
Have you been going to a breast surgeon in particular and not just a general surgeon? LCIS is such a weirdo, if you can, go to a breast surgeon. When I see mine she not only does a clinical exam but also shows me (and discusses) her opinions on the image studies I bring her and she discusses the latest in medical news based on what she's studied up on and conferences she's been to. Because I've been seeing her for years and she knows my history so well she's been a wonderful source of referrals to excellent radiologists and medical oncologists when I needed consults or biopsies. I've found that it helps to have a BS who is well wired into the breast health medical community in my area.
Don't be shy. This is your health not theirs. You want to be comfortable and have confidence in your medical team.
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I have dense breasts (premenop) and ultrasound scans and MRIs definitely do a much better job than mammos (even 3-D ones). What really matters is the biopsy result though: in my case it was an (un)lucky dip, none of the radiologists expected to find anything, they just wanted to rule out a carcinoma (turned out I had PLCIS inside a fibroadenoma which apparently is quite rare).
I found a lot of info on this website: www.areyoudense.org/
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I think that I am dense and that may have nothing to do with my breasts!! lol
For me, mammograms have never found anything. That is because I have extremely heterogenously dense breasts. The ultrasound is what detected my cancer as well as all of my other lumps throughout the years. I have always asked for an ultrasound and paid for it myself because mammo's have been useless for me. I will always have a 3D mammo anyway because that is the standard of treatment. I would never consider having a 2D mammo any more. For me, the MRI gives me peace of mind. However, I do not know how often insurance companies will pay for one.
Kayla:
You need to advocate for yourself and do what will make you feel the most comfortable. You are already going to worry with LCIS so you don't need to add any more stress and anxiety to your plate. Good luck with your doctors and with finding a good doctor for a second opinion if you choose that route.
Penzance:
I am glad that you had the fibroadenoma excised. It is really amazing that your PLCIS was detected. You are lucky that you know about the PLCIS. I have PLCIS too along with PILC. Good luck.
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kayla, all my cancer docs recommend annual mammograms + BMRI, offset by 6 months. (then I had a hard time getting insurance to approve the BMRI, but that's another story). Can you start by seeing your actual surgeon and oncologist? If they don't recommend it, ask why not? Then seek a second opinion. You might also get information or referrals from your local cancer support center.
In terms of other tests, the automated full-breast U/S is new, so some places don't have the equipment and insurance probably won't cover it. The cost is around $300 (I believe) so not as prohibitive if you choose to pay for it yourself. My MO said that 3D mammograms use more radiation than 2D, so there's a trade-off. She's still recommending an annual mammogram + BMRI (no radiation).
Edited to add: here's some info from the Komen site. They say the 3D mammogram is considered an "emerging" technology. While it may have benefits for some or even many patients, today it's not considered the standard of care.
http://ww5.komen.org/BreastCancer/EmergingAreasinE...
There may be other info elsewhere on 3D mammograms. Just an FYI.
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MO (I had very dense breasts) told me mammo and US, together. First mammo, then and US. I preferred an MRI, if you can get your insurance to pay for it--which I could. My dense breasts hid 5 years or more of ILC through five ineffective mammograms that reported clear when I wasn't. You can see what happened to me in my signature line below. I don't trust mammograms.
Claire
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I don't understand why a breast ultrasound is not a standard part of our diagnostic mammograms. I am very cystic in both breasts and have always had an ultrasound even before the LCIS diagnosis. Here in Florida, they fight you tooth an nail to get that ultrasound, regardless of what the doctor writes on the script.
My reports never mention anything about breast density. I wonder why the radiologist does not include this information? I guess I will have to ask on my next follow-up. The reports they write here in FL lack a lot of information unlike my NY reports which were very detailed.
My personal opinion is that a breast ultrasound should be a standard part of mammography for everyone.
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I agree that the ultrasound should be the standard of care for people who have dense breasts and that insurance companies should pay for the ultrasounds. -
I have had dense breasts for years. I lost one to cancer two years ago in which they found lobular hyperplasia, a known risk for lobular carcinoma. No one ever paid attention to this. Now found out I have lobular carcinoma in other breast. My cancer center now does 3D mammos of which I had three and they were all negative. Also two ultrasounds were negative and ductogram showed nothing but papilloma. Lumpectomy to remove papilloma found cancer. NOW they did an MRI which tells the whole gory story. In my opinion 3D is no better than old mammos and ideally MRI should be first line of search whether there are symptoms in dense breast or not. Like that will ever happen
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the mammogram missed my tumor for years, even though they took 8 shots of the breast they decided it was 'clear'. I think mammograms contribute to the cancer, so frankly, I'm happy to have my boobs GONE and never get one again. Flat and Fabulous for me at 40. I actually think it's easier to find flattering clothing and my friends say I look thinner with my 34DD's gone.
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I think if you've had cancer, the MRI is fairly standard practice now for young patients with dense breasts. 5 years ago, I had to fight my oncologist for it--the studies on density as a major risk factor just weren't solidified. But now, the issue is pretty clear, and I haven't had to fight it since.
Count me in as one of the ones who had an IDC marked "probably benign" in years of mammograms prior--I just don't think the technology is very effective for young, dense breasted women as is well-substantiated in the press.
Regarding health risk, the MRI is no free lunch, and the long-term studies unknown. But with an upwards of 20% risk of recurrence for even Stage 1 patients, I think going without these tests is dangerous. I worked in Republic of Georgia--we pooh pooh the power of these tests, but they don't have screening there, and most women are diagnosed Stage IV at onset, whereas here the overwhelming majority are diagnosed Stage 1.
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