Open biopsy vs Core Needle biopsy??

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JM29
JM29 Member Posts: 15
edited October 2015 in Waiting for Test Results

Radiology report of mammogram/US suggested cored needle biopsy. Well I saw the breast surgeon today and he wants to perform an open biopsy, do pathology right there and perform a lumpectomy if necessary. If I had never seen the breast surgeon I would have just had the core needle biopsy done. I just don't see the benefit of an open biopsy. Can anyone give me some advice here? The dr. is giving me the day to think it over. He seemed bothered I wasn't taking his advice of the open biopsy.

Comments

  • BrooksideVT
    BrooksideVT Member Posts: 2,211
    edited October 2015

    As you have not given us any information about the pathology you've received so far, none of us can give you any specific help. If it were me, though, I'd be calling both the radiologist and the surgeon, gathering details. Also, if you've been assigned a nurse or social worker to guide you through everything, you could call her.

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited October 2015

    I don't think there is any pathology so far - the issue is whether to do a core needle biopsy of a suspicious mass, or an excisional biopsy/lumpectomy, correct?. The benefit of doing the latter is that you do fewer procedures and get surgical pathology that much faster - but you would have to be trusting of the surgeon.

  • BrooksideVT
    BrooksideVT Member Posts: 2,211
    edited October 2015

    Oops! Sorry. I knew there was no pathology, didn't I? I guess I meant the infirmation in the radiologist's report..

    I would add that in my case, my first thought was to request an excisional biopsy (get it out, right?), but the radiologist indicated that, again, in my case, the chance of clear margins would be higher with the core needle biopsy, so that was what I did.

  • JM29
    JM29 Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2015

    Right, no pathology yet. Still at "suspicious mass"....

    okay so a core biopsy can be just as accurate as an open biopsy? I was just shocked at the appt today I didn't think id be scheduling surgery without even knowing if it's cancerous. I don't know the surgeon at all and he didn't make me feel comfortable about anything. Like going under general anesthesia is nothing...

    What do you mean by clear margins?

  • Jenwith4kids
    Jenwith4kids Member Posts: 635
    edited October 2015

    Sounds like you don't trust the doc - if he had made you more comfortable you may not have even questioned his advice.

    I'd find another doc.

  • Viceroy
    Viceroy Member Posts: 69
    edited October 2015

    I had a core biopsy and it was a very simple and easy procedure. I liked having time to think about what treatment that I wanted surgically after having the biopsy, so for me I am very glad to have gone that route. I think I would have a hard time not knowing how extensive my surgery would be before I went under.

    Also, if you aren't comfortable with your surgeon I would recommend getting another opinion. I don't think that I would be comfortable with someone who pressured me. The surgeon that I had explained things to me about every option available and answered all of my questions but one of my favorite things that she did was to stress that it was my body and my decision.

  • JM29
    JM29 Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2015

    Thank you ladies! Okay, I'm going to go with my original plan and gut feeling here and just have the radiologist do the biopsy.

    So is it true that because it's a palpable mass, if it's benign I will still need surgery to remove it? That was the breast surgeons logic, less procedures...

  • Ddw79
    Ddw79 Member Posts: 533
    edited October 2015

    All I can say is that I had to have both the last time. There was no choice offered.

    After core needle biopsy because of pathology which indicated a problem was a need for excisional biopsy. It's all about the path report

  • JM29
    JM29 Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2015

    That's fine, if pathology comes back saying i need a different biopsy. Something just doesn't sound right having surgery right off the bat without anything but an US/mammo to go off of.

    If you don't mind me asking, what happened with the core biopsy that made them decide to do an open biopsy? How was the open biopsy?

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited October 2015

    If a mass is very, very small a core needle biopsy can sometimes get most or all of it. It is an easier procedure, requiring only a local anesthetic and no surgical admission--the whole shebang from hopping on the table to getting off is under half an hour, tops. The reason to do it that way is to find out whether it's even malignant--if benign you might need nothing further beyond periodic mammograms. If your surgeon insists on going straight from imaging to excisional biopsy, it suggests to me that perhaps he'd rather do it himself rather than entrust it to a breast radiologist (or perhaps the facility where you're being treated doesn't have a breast radiologist). I don't see the point of doing an excisional biopsy, taking a frozen section, and then either closing up or doing a full lumpectomy depending on the results. My surgeon doesn't think while-you-wait frozen sections (which it sounds like what your surgeon wants to do) are any more accurate than core needle samples (maybe less accurate), and you'd be under general anesthesia longer while they wait for the pathology results. It's safer and surer to remove the entire tumor and an adequate margin of apparently non-cancerous tissue, and then wait the 3-5 working days for a full pathological study (including hormonal profile, tumor grade, status of nodes & margins, etc.). Doing the core needle biopsy first is safer for the patient and gives more time to decide on what kind of treatment you want. If you do opt to schedule surgery, you will not only have more time to get ready but when you do have your surgery the surgeon can also do a sentinel node biopsy to avoid unnecessarily dissecting your underarm should your sentinel nodes be negative.


    I’ve read of cases in which the core needle biopsy yielded inconclusive results--or came up benign when all factors on the imaging pointed to probable malignancy, or maybe missed the mark because of inadequate guidance provided by the imaging (e.g., mammogram, ultrasound or MRI performed DURING the biopsy to indicate where to place the needle). But that happens maybe 8% of the time, and usually due to inaccurate imaging. Sounds like your surgeon trusts himself more than he trusts the radiologist--which might, rather than being grounded in genuine and justified concern over the radiologist’s competence, be a sign of a turf war. Or the surgeon doesn’t want another doctor in the picture but is not himself skilled in core-needle biopsy (or the core-needle biopsy means a lower reimbursement for him than would an excisional biopsy whether or not followed by lumpectomy). Either first get an image-guided core-needle biopsy by a qualified and experienced breast radiologist, or get a second opinion!

  • JM29
    JM29 Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2015

    Thank you so much! You answered all of my questions :) I read your post to my husband and now we're both in complete agreement to go to radiology. Im also getting a referral for a different breast surgeon if necessary.

  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited October 2015

    Second surgical opinion would be a good idea.

  • doxie
    doxie Member Posts: 1,455
    edited October 2015

    Did the surgeon explain why he wanted you to get the excisional over needle biopsy?

    I had an excisional, but it was only ordered after the radiologist actually saw the location of the lump when I was being prepped for the needle biopsy. He refused to do it because it was immediately under the skin of my areola right by the nipple and would have been too painful.

    I had a second surgery to remove more tissue and SLN after it was determined to be cancer.

    I think your surgeon is rushing you and a second opinion is a good idea.

  • JM29
    JM29 Member Posts: 15
    edited October 2015

    UPDATE:

    I researched surgeons in my area and found a womens clinic with 2 phenomenal doctors (amazing backgrounds). I met with one and she was AMAZING! She answered all of my questions. Took her time and was very reassuring that it will most likely be benign. She said an open biopsy was completely unnecessary for my situation. So what I found out was, due to my implants and the very little breast tissue I have, the person doing the biopsy would have to be very skilled to avoid rupture. *Ding! *Ding! *Ding! That must have been the reason 1st doctor was going to do an open biopsy! So skilled in fact she brought in the other doctor to meet with me since she felt she was the best. She also took an actual slide of the nipple discharge to be sent to the lab where the other dr just put it on a card to check for blood. So today I had the ultrasound, core needle biopsy, titanium marker and mammogram done. She removed so much of it during biopsy she said if its B9 I shouldn't even need to worry about a lumpectomy (it was only 7mm to begin with). So I'm feeling very relieved.... The procedure itself was very intense. I tried not to move out of fear of rupture. I felt violated like when you get a tooth pulled x10. No pain except for the initial shot. However i think your body must release some sort of chemical response to the biopsy that makes you feel like that.


    I can not thank all of you beautiful women enough for the help. I really don't know how I would have handled this without you! I have learned a very important lesson through all this... you are your advocate. Never just blindly listen to a doctor. Research, ask questions and look for 2nd opinions.


    Oh and I will have the results by Friday!

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