MRI post-biopsy
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I was diagnosed a couple weeks ago with IDC. My brother (yes, brother), was diagnosed with breast cancer in March. He has a few bone lesions and he starting chemo again soon. I am BRCA negative. Initially, they thought my tumor was 1cm from what they saw in ultrasound. I did an MRI yesterday and it shows a 2.9 x 2.1 x 2.8 cm mass. I was not scared before but I am scared now. At least one good thing is that it does not show any axillary lymph nodes. I have an appointment with my oncologist on Monday, and I will ask about the Oncotype test. Has anyone had a tumor of this size and not needed chemo? That is what I am scared of because I saw what my brother went through. I have been reading these forums for a couple months and I never thought I would be posting for myself. I have had a cyst in the area aspirated in June and it came back benign. A few years ago I had the same area biopsied and it was benign as well. How could this change?
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Hi lovingisliving. First and foremost, the size of your tumor will vary with imaging and until you have the surgery, you will not know the true dimensions. So for now, don't get too hung up in the size of your mass. Assuming your tumor is the size the MRI indicates, that would not be an automatic "yes" for chemo, nor should it disqualify you for having your tumor tested for oncotype. (assuming you are estrogen + and HER2 -) I am sure there are many folks who have not had chemo with a mass that is 3CM as long as all the other variables are favorable....low oncotype, negative nodes, no LVI, etc. It is very possible for an area of invasive cancer to develop over time in an area of the breast previously biopsied benign. Breast tissue changes and that is why we have regular exams Good luck. This is the hardest time in the process because there are a lot of unknowns, but once you have all the information and know your treatment plan, things will be better. I hope that your treatment is mild.
MsP
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thank you for that information, my IDC lymph is 2.2 cm on US but feels smaller. It started at 4.1cm and I wondered if US measurements can be off?
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The mass on my left side was 3.9 x 3.0 x 2.1cm (measured post-surgery). Part of the mass was a fibroadenoma, the IDC itself was 2.2 x 1.4cm. Size alone does not indicate the need for chemo. I did not have chemo.
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Thank you MsPharoah and SummerAngel, that gives me some comfort. I'm going to try to keep it together until my onco appointment on Monday. What gets me is the timing of my diagnosis with my brother. I want to do a full panel genetic testing to make sure there isn't a gene that caused this. I had a horrible time in the MRI, I'm claustrophobic and I took a sedative, which messed me up even more!
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Lovingisliving,
We're sorry you have to be here, but really glad you found us! As you can already see, our Community is an incredible source of support and advice. We're all here to help you as much as we can!
Please keep us posted on how your appointment goes on Monday.
We are thinking of you and your brother!
--The Mods
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LovingisLiving, When I got my diagnosis, my brother was scheduled for a biopsy for possible breast cancer. Happily it was benign but it was very scary as I was hoping for a lumpectomy and my surgeon basically said that if I was BRCA positive and/or had cancer in the other breast, the lumpectomy was off the table. Fast forward, had an MRI that found another mass in my cancer breast but the "good" boob was fine. They biopsied the second mass and it was benign...so we were on for lumpectomy. There are lots of turns and twists along the way to getting your treatment plan settled. Think about how each step gets you more information that helps you make decisions. And yes, these will be your decisions; you do have a lot more control over this than you think.
As far as genetic testing, I highly recommend it. I was only tested for BRCA1 and 2 (turned out negative). I plan on paying out of pocket for a more comprehensive genetic test provided by Color Genomics. $200 (really cheap when you consider that the BRCA test and Oncotype DX are 2-4K) When you visit your surgeon,make sure to get some information about the various tests. Even though some of the mutations they find in the larger panel are not specific for breast cancer to the extent BRCA is, in the future they may be applicable.
This weekend, come up with some exhausting activities that will divert your attention and make you tired so you can get some sleep. Also plan on pampering yourself...a pedicure, manicure, spend more time on your makeup, take a bubble bath and use that expensive lotion you have been saving. LOL. When I was waiting, I cleaned out drawers and closets and created some donation bins. It was tiring, but it felt like I was doing something productive.
Much love and big hugs to you. You are going to do well. We are here for you!
MsP
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Thank you all for your kind words and advice. I will let you know how the appointment goes on Monday!
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Please take some comfort in knowing you are HER2 - and ER/PR +, which gives you lots of tx options and indicates that what you have is potentially less aggressive and easier to tx/cure than being triple negative or HER2+.
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I think it's normal to get a different size on different scans, and as was said, you just don't know until it comes out. My surgeon and MO both told me ultrasounds often underestimate the size. Mine was 2.8cm on the original US at the end of July. I didn't have an MRI of the breast but on CT it was only showing 1.6cm. The original mammogram didn't see it at all. Then after several delays of my surgery I had another US as a size check two weeks before my 10/7 BMX, and it appeared to have shrunk to 2.4cm. Two weeks later the actual measurement was 3.2cm. Not small but since my nodes were negative and I had a BMX, I won't need radiation and have a good chance of not needing chemo, just hormone therapy. It all depends on the Oncotype score which I won't have for a few more weeks.
Another thing that changed for me between core needle biopsy and surgery was the grade. According to the biopsy samples the grade was at least 2, and possibly higher because the mitotic score was still pending, but in the end it was only Grade 1 because the tubule score was lower than in the biopsy. They can get different results depending on what part of the cancer they are looking at, because all of the cancer cells in a tumor are not the same. Also different pathologists will make different determinations based on what they see. I'm thankful for the Oncotype to hopefully settle the chemo issue, but even that isn't foolproof when you get an intermediate result, in which case I will have a difficult choice to make.My original surgeon was so sure I would need chemo that she recommended neoadjuvent treatment prior to surgery, which very well could have meant unnecessary and/or ineffective chemo for my actual cancer. I'm very happy that I questioned that recommendation because I wanted to know for sure it was needed. Thankfully my MO agreed with me.
The moral of this story is try not to worry about what hasn't happened yet because there is no way to predict which way it's gonna go. Harder to do than to say but what helped me was to focus only on what was going on "right now" without looking too far ahead.
Best wishes!
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After my DX, I had a full body CT, an MRI, Bone scan and a PET. The only one that showed anything was the PET which 'lit up' an area along lower jaw so had a biopsy that area that afternoon and the next morning had the path report - nothing there that was any problem.
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Thank you all for sharing your opinions, stories and kind words. I just came back from my appointment with the MO (very good doctor, btw). She basically left me with the same decision that the surgeon did, whether I want to do a lumpectomy+radiation or a mastectomy. Since I am BRCA negative, she said that both choices are equal in terms of outcome. She also wanted me to do a bone density test to find out which horomone therapy would be best. She mentioned the oncotype test after surgery, and the testing for lymph nodes, etc. I'm going to book an appointment with a radiation onc to get their opinion as well, and I am going back to my surgeon to help me decide which is best because of the "new" size of the mass (which could be inflammation from the biopsy). But I have a question about what anyone has experienced as far as mastectomy or lumpectomy+radiation, and what they felt afterwards. My biggest fear is doing the lumpectomy and having the cancer come back in the same breast. And on the other hand I know that mastectomy is a big surgery and it has a lot of recovery involved, especially with reconstruction. I guess what matters the most is after the surgery, whichever one I do. I want to make a decision by the end of the month...I hope someone can help me think through the options.
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I think you can trust your doctors when they say the outcomes are equal, so it will be all of the other factors unique to you, your life and preferences that will help you decide. My choice was easy and I do not regret having a BMX but I had very specific reasons for it that probably don't apply to your case. For one, my cancer was missed in mammograms for years because I had very dense breasts (weird talking about them in the past tense!). I also have a lifelong history of benign problems that wouldn't have gone away with a lumpectomy, and I wasn't willing to live with that level of anxiety from false alarms for the rest of my life.
You will have to think through the possibilities as they pertain to you, and come to a decision that you can live with. There is a thread around here somewhere that lists some specific things to consider when making the choice. I don't remember how to find it but maybe someone else does.
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Solfeo, thanks for you reply. I actually do have some of the things that you are describing, like dense breasts for one. I've had a history of abnormal mammograms and ultra sounds. A few years ago, I had a stereotactic biopsy in the same area because of microcalcifications. That one came back benign. After that, I got a hematoma because of the biopsy, and then developed a cyst in the same area that hid this mass. That cyst was aspirated in June and it was benign, but the lump didn't go away. This mass was hidden behind it, and it didn't show on previous ultrasounds or mammograms. Now on the MRI, it shows I have a "stable cyst" in a different part of the same breast. I'm starting to think that I may have had DCIS way back then and it was misdiagnosed. This is why I am leaning towards mastectomy, just like you did. Of course I'm going to keep thinking about this, but my heart is telling me mastectomy is the better choice for me. It shows you just had your mastectomy recently, how are you doing?
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Sounds like we do have things in common! In the past I also had a stereotactic core biopsy in the same area as my cancer due to microcalcifications. I had my first breast surgery at age 12 - so when I say a lifetime of problems that's what I'm talking about. Seriously, ever since I started to get breasts.
I decided a long time ago after several benign scares that if I ever did get cancer I would have the BMX to rid myself of all of my breast problems for once and for all. So there was never really any question of lumpectomy vs. mastectomy for me. I was intrigued when the surgeon offered me a reduction lumpectomy because my breasts were very large and I had already been considering a reduction before the diagnosis. But that only lasted about five minutes until I reminded myself that it would mean the benign problems wouldn't be going away, and never being able to let anything go again because "it feels benign" between mammograms. No thanks, I don't need the stress of regular trips to the biopsy table, now that I actually have it and it can come back.
Because of the history I think it has probably bothered me less than most women to lose my breasts. For me it was more like good riddance to something that has caused me nothing but problems (and as I always like to add, "including various breast men in my life." haha). But for some women it is a devastating blow to lose their breasts. You're the only one who can predict how you might personally react.
I had no complications in surgery, and my recovery has been relatively easy. I planned it to be that way by asking for some newer procedures that are not being done everywhere yet. I've written about that elsewhere on the boards. There were no guarantees, but I got everything I asked for and everything turned out exactly the way I hoped. I needed no opiates during or after surgery, and have gotten by on extra-strength Tylenol and ibuprofen. My drains came out fairly quickly and I was able to start driving again today. I'm not going to lie and say it has been pleasant, but it certainly could have been worse.
I'm delaying reconstruction because I want to live without breasts for awhile to see how I adjust to being flat. It doesn't bother me so far, so maybe I won't feel the need to do reconstruction. I'll make up my mind after my treatment is done if I need chemo, or whenever I feel like it if all I need is hormone therapy. I'm thinking around 6 months from now for that decision.
If you have the lumpectomy you can always change your mind later and have the mastectomy, if the worrying gets to be too much. That was suggested to me, but my mind was pretty much made up, and they also told me that having radiation prior to MX would increase the risk of complications during recon, so I decided not to chance it. These are all things you should discuss with your BS and PS.
I don't know everything, but I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have, based on my experience. I have this thread on my favorites list or you can PM me anytime.
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Solfeo, your story sounds so much like how I am feeling now. I've always said that I would remove my breast if I got cancer, but a lumpectomy seemed so much simpler. But I guess simpler might not always be the right choice. My breasts are small, and I think removing the mass would cause quite a dent! Yesterday I was a mess at the doctor's office, especially when we were talking about my brother's cancer. I am so worried about him, more than myself. But we all have to be strong for each other. I'll most likely be having my surgery before Thanksgiving. I have a couple more consult appointments next week and I will tell the surgeon my decision when I see him. Thanks so much to everyone for all the support.
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sweetie hang in there we know ur feelins are here for u, hugs to u . msphil( idc stage 2 Lmast chemo n rads n 5yrs on tamoxifen) keep Hope, i am now a 21yr Survivor(Praise God)
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You have a big decision ahead of you. I had small dense breasts. A lumpectomy would have disfigured me too much. My BS recommended a mastectomy. I opted for a bilateral Mx with sentinel node biopsy, immeditate reconstruction with tissue expanders. Surgery went good and recovery was not too bad. I am just finishing chemo. When diagnosed they found 3 lumps in my left and 2 benign in my right. When they did the pathology they found a total of 7 spots. I had micro calcifications as well. I am glad I went ahead with the BMX. I only wanted to do this once. Good riddance cancer. I was glad I did as they got all the cancer, my nodes were clear and my margins are good. I am doing chemo as an insurance policy. I have decided against Rads. The risks don't outweigh the benefits. Chance of heart and lung damage, weakened ribs, nerve damage in my shoulder as well as an increased risk of Lymphadema. I am glad I went with agressive surgery and chemo.
You have to make the best choice for you. Make sure you are informed and decide based on the pros and cons.
Good luck
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Dee may I ask, did they say why all those 7 spots didn't show up in your imaging tests? Sounds like you did good, happy for you!
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I had 3 lumps that showed up on the MRI in my left and 2 showed up on my right. I had originally had the 3 left biopsied and they all came back as DCIS. I didn't have the 2 on my right biopsied, I just had the clips put in. They felt those ones were benign and I and already decided to have that breast removed anyway. The 4 other spots in my left were found post surgery when the pathology was done. They were 5-7 mm in size.
It was crazy that I had so many spots. I had small breastsA-cup(thanks breastfeeding), and almost no fat in them making it hard to find any lumps.
I am very happy with my surgery decision. I hope I am making the right decision about radiation. I have made it and now have to live with it. I did much research, looked at case studies, discussed with my surgeon(who right off said he felt I didn't need Rads). I feel informed and feel at peace with my decision. If there had been any evidence of it spreading to my lymph nodes I would have done Rads without any questions.
I didn't have the Oncotype DX done. My MO said due to the large number of tumors which ones do we send. Do we send the bigger ones or all 7. How do we interpret the results when they come back. If some #'s are high and some are low what do we do with them. He felt it was best to go ahead with the Chemo and make sure we zap any residual cells that may be lingering. I agreed with his rationale. Going for my last Chemo this morning. YAY me! -
Thanks everyone! I'm so glad I found this site, because sometimes it's the people who have gone through this themselves who can really tell you what to expect. I've been so overwhelmed with doctor's appointments, but I always have my son and husband with me so they can remind me what was said, it all becomes a blur sometimes. I am hoping that my appointment with the radiation oncologist on Monday will help me decide which surgery I want to do. Yesterday I was at the genetic counselor's office and she was almost talking me back into a lumpectomy. Of course it's an easier surgery, but I don't want easier, I want peace of mind. I decided that if I choose mastectomy, I don't want to do reconstruction at the same time.
DeeRatz, congrats on your last chemo! Will you be taking Tamoxifen now? My oncologist said that my tumor is "very" estrogen receptive based on the biopsy and that Tamoxifen or some other hormonal therapy will definitely be part of my plan.
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Yes I will be starting Tamoxifen in a month. I will also look at having my ovaries removed/hysterectomy. I want to shut the Estrogen factory down. The chemo has put me into menopause but there is no way to know if it is just temporary.
I am glad I did immediate reconstruction. It made the transition much easier for me. To wake up post surgery and have some breast mounds was comforting to me. It also saves me an extra surgery. It was the right decision for me. -
Dee, I'm glad you're doing well and that you're happy with your decision.
Speaking of decisions, I have my mastectomy scheduled for November 17. I decided I don't want to have reconstruction at the same time. I want my body to heal completely before I do anything else, if I choose to. I'm nervous about it, but I know it'll all be behind me soon enough.
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Good for you lovingisliving! Feels better just having the decision made I'm sure. It will be over before you know it.
Wish you the best possible uncomplicated outcome!
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Thanks Solfeo! I am already feeling a little relieved. But I had the surgery rescheduled to Nov 10 since they had an opening, and that will hopefully give me more time to heal before Thanksgiving. The nurse mentioned something about injecting a dye for the lymph nodes, I guess that will happen the same day?
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I had the dye injected the morning of the surgery because I had a late morning surgery, but they can also do it the afternoon before if your surgery is very early in the morning. Then they do a scan to make sure the dye is traveling where it needs to go, to the sentinel nodes. You can see it tracing the path on the screen. It was weird reading about my dyed nipple in the pathology report later. Actually the whole experience of reading about my breasts as separate entities in the report was a very surreal experience. Not to be morbid, but it was a bit like reading my own autopsy. I'm fascinated by such things so it didn't bother me.
Pathology confirmed my abundance of benign problems BTW, such as so many cysts they couldn't be counted, intraductal papillomas, and a few other things that I had never heard of. That just served to reinforce that I made the right choice to put those problems to rest for good. No regrets.
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