Lowering estrogen NATURALLY

exbrnxgrl · September 2015

kayb,

radgal · September 2015

I will know on Tuesday what the results of my Oncotype DX test is, whether I'll need chemo and what adjuvant meds I'll be prescribed.

I actually have appointments with two different MOs, the second one being a second opinion and because I wasn't entirely impressed with the first MO I saw.

I have done a lot of research about DIM and its precursor, indole-3-carbinol. I googled "indole 3 carbinol and estrogen", "indole 3 carbinol and breast cancer" and also "indole 3 carbinol and DIM". I also read about Tamoxifen, the AIs and their side effects.

Please take a look at indole 3 carbinol. I, too, was all excited about DIM until I read here about I3C, then my excitement turned to I3C instead. Definitely worth investigating!

labelle · September 2015

I guess that's true, if you are talking about a process, not the substance (DIM/vitamin C, etc) but I doubt we will see DIM tested on its own in any case-there really isn't much money in a substance that is sold under numerous brand names already.

If this study shows DIM makes Tamoxifen work better, I'd expect and new/improved version of Tamoxifen that also contains DIM might someday become available-that could definitely be patented-and I think if they could make Tamoxifen work better, that would be a good thing. In any case, I found the fact that they are studying it at all to be interesting as is the statement that "DIM has been shown to act on breast cancer risk through a variety of mechanisms."

Radgal, I remember researching both but chose to use DIM in the end, although I don't remember exactly why. I believe I13C is a precursor of DIM and the means by which they work are similar.

Wendy3 · October 2015

marciaM I totally believe there is a lot to supplements. Whether it's cannibus oil or something else as was mentioned before we don't really know try everything. I have been taking pot oil for three months now along with grape seed extract , astragulus and indole-3-carbinol. When first diagnosed I was told by my then oncologist that there was nothing he could do. I was stag four from the onset and with a pat to my knee he was done ..so sorry.

pipers_dream · October 2015

An update on menopause for me: after my fasting experience I have gone into full blown menopause I think. 30 hotflashes/day, sleepless nights, getting up 5-6 times to go to the bathroom and. . . hair loss. I hate that one. And no periods! I've had fibroids for many years which is a sign of high estrogen and fasting is supposed to clean those up so maybe, just maybe, I won't have to deal with periods again. Fingers crossed.

Wendy, how are you doing now?

Wendy3 · October 2015

piper I'm doing pretty well. The tumor by my last oncologist visit is shrinking and my energy is good. I have also changed my diet pretty drastically and I go to the gym every morning ( not easy to do). A year ago I did a juice fast for three weeks...read some stuff that if the cells are not getting enough nutrition cancer develop. I think there is more they don't know then what they know .

Also I have a new Oncologist never putting up with negative people...not anymore.

sailorgalsails · October 2015

I have not seen any articles against using turmeric.....can you cite one?

Wendy3 · October 2015

I was told by my oncologist that tumeric is one of those iffy ones. That may affect other drugs.

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

Thanks Katcar0001, I am taking the Tamoxifen at 1\2 dose for now. My oncotype dx was 8. They found a tiny 1.8 mm micromet in my sentinel node and removed 16 more and they were negative. I also had clear borders. I still fight anxiety. The Tamoxifen is causing more swelling around my tissue expander and left arm, still, I know I need to continue to take it. I appreciate the info on DIM. I have a bottle but have not taken a single one. How did you do with the reconstruction? I am struggling because of the lymphedema and PHN. Thank you for answering, it means a lot and God Bless!

Anonymous · October 2015

Browsing this thread because I'm seeing a new MO on Monday who may suggest I end taking the anastrozole so I'm looking at alternatives. (even if she suggests stopping does not mean I will stop).

Farmlovergrl, I'm curious that you say "the Tamoxifen is causing more swelling around my tissue expander and left arm" as I thought lymphedema would do that as it also affects the trunk/upper body and you say you already have it in the arm. Even if the lymphedema has gotten worse, might not be because of the Tam?

katcar0001 · October 2015

Farmerlovergrl - I am sorry about your struggles with lymphedema and Tamoxifen. They did remove a lot of nodes but I am not sure Tamoxifen would cause the swelling. Is the swelling down your entire arm or just near the expander? Is it possible you have a seroma? I am in a holding pattern with my recon. I should be getting my squishies in Nov. Thanks so much for asking, and I hope you get relief from the discomfort of the swelling.

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

Hi patoo, I measure my arm several times a day . My swelling is worse from the elbow to my left hand. I had taken a few Tamoxifen 10mg pills when I noticed more soreness and swelling. I go to Physical therapy every two weeks now, and I do self massage. I looked at the side effects for Tamoxifen and swelling of hands and feet are one of them. I know Lymph is different than normal edema so I`m wondering if the edema from the medication is just adding to it. My socks leave rings around my shins now and didn`t before. Selenium seems to help some. I want to increase the dose of Tam. to 15 mg. Hopefully the lymphedema will resolve somewhat. I`m afraid to take the Tam. and more afraid not to take it.

Anonymous · October 2015

Hi farmlovergrl, I hear ya. It's so difficult to know what to do and, unfortunately, our med team sometimes don't know either but I'm sure you are letting them know what's happening so they can keep an eye on it. We are glad to have these meds available to us but makes us wonder when the other shoe will drop. Please be encouraged that eventually it all comes to be part of our 'new normal' and you will be able to look back on it and know you came through. {{HUGS}}

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

Thanks patoo, How are you doing on the Arimidex? I was always so healthy, (so I thought), I seldom had to go to a doctor, then out of a blue sky I got this horrible disease and the miserable afflictions that went with it. I don`t understand why I had to lose so many nodes? I wish I had not gone to a University teaching hospital. I am grieving over losing the nodes because 16 of them were perfectly normal. They were not even sure anything was in the sentinel node and later said it was 1.8mm. Best wishes to you and God Bless!

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

Katcar0001, That`s so great that you are almost finished! Yes, it was a lot of nodes, and good ones they destroyed. I took a step back with my recon because I got really sick and was hurting all over. I went back to my Plastic Surgeon team and they removed some of the saline and sent me to the ER in the same building. I had just had a 60cc fill the week before! The ER did not figure out what was wrong although I showed them some strange sores on my back that had just appeared out of nowhere. I went home, still sick, and went to another doctor who diagnosed me with shingles. By then the antiviral did not work as well. I took it anyway and now I have nerve pain in my back every day. I am so sick of my TE. I just want this over with. I sometimes just want it out. I can`t wait to sleep on my left side again. Thanks for answering back.

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

P. S. Katcar0001, Can you give me some info on tumor marker blood tests? Are they reliable? Can your Oncologist do one?

Anonymous · October 2015

Farmlovergrl, so sorry for all you are going through. I am doing okay on arimidex. I think any aches or stiffness really are the result of aging more than anything else. I was also always healthy, not even getting colds and with no BC history in the family this caught me totally offguard.

Please do not revisit your choices as you did only what you knew at the time. You cannot change it and so regretting it is only making you stress which is not healthy. Pray (and I will also) that the Lord will help you to let it go and allow you to work on overcoming this illness and getting on with a full life.

Your MO can do the tumor marker tests but I've learned on some of the other boards that some do not think they are reliable and so they don't run them.

HUGS

katcar0001 · October 2015

Farmlovergrl - I hope you are having a good day. I have yet to do a tumor marker test. My MO in S.F. does not do them unless one is symptomatic as he does not think they are reliable, and they can create unnecessary anxiety (that fits me for sure). He would do one if I asked, and he has a lab right there in his office. My BS in Mexico does do yearly ones. I may just skip them and do the scans--haven't decided yet. My friend recently had a tumor marker test for no particular reason, and that led to a big nightmare. The marker for bc was raised, and her mammogram showed nothing but one microcalcification. It was too small for a biopsy, so she had a lumpectomy. It was benign. So, in her case a tumor marker test resulted in over-treatment for nothing. It's hard to advise you on this one.

Anonymous · October 2015

katcar0001, you said exactly what my new MO said this morning regarding tumor markers. She left it up to me whether to order it or not as they are not reliable unless symptomatic (I'm not) and she said the same that they create unnecessary anxiety/stress, especially if they appeared to be elevated. I have never been one to become anxious about much, life is what it is, so decided to have her do it just because I am curious. If it comes in a little elevated but my mammo indicates nothing we will do nothing. If it comes in elevated and mammo suggests something off then we will do additional scans. Either case I won't worry about it but I am the weird exception in not being one to worry.

Farmlovergrl, based on the above hope it helps you in making a decision.

BTW, I came on this thread wondering about keeping my estrogen low if I go off arimidex but looks like I'm staying on for the full 10 years unless trials come about concluding it's not indicated to be of benefit. My MO says since I have no issues with it, then it probably won't hurt to stay on but if I wish I can go off at anytime, my choice.

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

You are absolutely right. I need to let what could have been and what should have been go and work with what I have before me now. Are you finished taking Arimidex? Congratulations, on being able to take it so long. I might do as well on it as Tamoxifen. I did not have BC in my family either. Thanks for the prayers and encouragement. May God continue to bless you!

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

Hi, I am doing OK. I am keeping my arm elevated today. I am starting to have warm flushes. How are you doing on the Tamoxifen? I take mine early in the morning. Thanks for the info on tumor marker tests.

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

How can we know if our estrogen is low? Will the oncologist do a blood test for that?

Wendy3 · October 2015

So ijust recently found out that sweet potatoes (that are all the rage right now) are high in plant estrogens . It's Thanksgiving today in Canada...no sweet potatoes for me.

Anonymous · October 2015

Wendy3, yikes - had sweet potatoes last night. Will have to check that out though not sure plant estrogen is the same as 'human' estrogen? Thanks.

Farmlovergrl, I am staying on arimidex another 2-1/2 years (total 10) since I have no issues on it. MO ordered new dexa scan just to make sure bones are okay. Some have suggested that having SE's, like flushes/flashes, on these drugs may be indication that they are working since the reason for SE's is due to loss of estrogen.

katcar0001 · October 2015

Farmlovergrl - I am doing okay on Tamoxifen--not the best, but not the worst either. I take mine in the morning as well. I cannot figure out if my worsening insomnia is due to it or to just getting older. I do notice more back pain as well (although I have had it for many years), but again, could just be age. My MO checks my estrogen levels twice a year, specifically LH and FSH. My levels are too high, and I understand that Tamoxifen can increase your circulating blood estrogen but that it keeps estrogen away from the breast receptors. Still, I would feel more reassured if my levels would come down. I am about due for another test. I think I am having more hot flashes as well, but I am not really sure (maybe it's just hot!)

Regarding sweet potatoes, my MO told me I did not need to worry about excluding any one food--just eat a balanced diet. I am sure eating them last night did not cause any problems, Patoo--just don't eat them every day. I eat a little soy here and there, not much. Same with flax (I sometimes buy bread with flax seeds), but I don't supplement with either of these.

gypsyjo · October 2015

This is the best link I found with advice on what to eat and avoid. It looks like Sweet Potatoes are good and Wild Yams may have some qualifiers.

ER+PR+ Foods to Eat and Avoid

Anonymous · October 2015

Thanks katcar about the sweet potatos. I also try and avoid soy or make sure it is way down low in the ingredient list. I won't buy supplements encased in soy capsules either.

gypsyjo, thanks for the link. Will take a look.

Wendy3 · October 2015

gypsyjo thanks for the link will check it out. Their are so many things I have cut out of my diet since my diagnoses that I've lost 15 pounds. No sugar and no soy of any kind and I was a big tofu nut. Excercising everyday and lots of CDB s from marajauana oil. Sounds super flakey when I read it back to me but my tumor is shrinking so must be doing something right at least for now.

Anonymous · October 2015

Your tumor is shrinking so not flakey! Yay.

Farmlovergrl · October 2015

Patoo,, hope your bone scan turns out great! 😊

Lowering estrogen NATURALLY

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