Exercise and well being during chemo and radiation

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  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015

    Dear all: I am a hopeless idiot and I somehow un-favorited this thread several days ago and then didn't notice.

    First- KSusan: I am so very sorry about your sister. That is devastating news and the only sliver of good there is that she will indeed be lucky to have you for guidance. Your intelligence, humor, and gentle soul will be a beacon for her during this undoubtedly dark time,

    Sloth- it's interesting about the melatonin. I have taken it to no effect before for insomnia, but recently read that it may be good to take it for its own sake, just to get the levels up, with tamoxifen. I have no idea what dosage to start with. I threw it all out months before dx. I have also read about sleeping in complete darkness, and already had gone back to using a sleep mask as I have been struggling mightily with sleeplessness and borderline mania. Not that it has helped with exercise. I have been running around a lot lately, but not truly exercising. I did a mile on the elliptical the other day, but, today I did nothing. It's been a struggle this week. Had my dumbass survivorship meeting yesterday and it just made me angry.

    Octo- you are doing great and glad to see you are able to exercise some and keep the major SEs at bay.

    I see we have several new ladies and I welcome you and apologize that I just got too far behind to welcome you individually. I look forward to getting to know you better. I need to get off the screens and try to maintain some modicum of sleep hygiene. Night all.


  • Trvler
    Trvler Member Posts: 3,159
    edited September 2015

    I keep forgetting to buy the melatonin. I got a prescription for Xanax in NOLA and I used to cut them in half but these pills they gave me are not easy to break so I take the whole thing. I kind of need it now. I have to sleep on my back only for two more weeks so sleeping is tough anyway. I need the sleep. But I want to get off of it. I hate taking anything to sleep. I know I am in for a few sleepless nights.

    Katy: I know you can't have sleepless nights. I am sure I told you my mom is bipolar. I am happy to see you trying non med ways to sleep though. My mom's answer to everything is to pop whatever pill. I, having been the one to have to take her to the hospital and have her admitted twice, fully understand the risks of not sleeping. I hope the melatonin works for you. I think an occasional sleeping pill when you are having a few sleepless nights would be find. Do you have anything?

  • slothabouttown
    slothabouttown Member Posts: 449
    edited September 2015

    Katy, I'm taking ten mg of melatonin at bedtime. I did some research and kept seeing that dose recommended with tamoxifen. I don't have trouble falling asleep, it's staying asleep that's a problem. I move around from bed to sofa to recliner some nights. I guess it's getting better slowly though some nights it's quite frustrating.

    I'm one of those people whose docs refused to give any form of meds to help with anxiety. I have asked them many times. I've been told(by my doctors) to drink a glass of wine, take a benadryl (not an option now with tamoxifen) at one point I was sent to the cancer library to get a guided imagery CD, and all along I just wanted a little Ativan or something, anything to take the edge off. Nothing. Ever. Anyway, I've made it this far with melatonin and bedtime tea, maybe someday I'll be glad I never had anything else.

  • eheinrich
    eheinrich Member Posts: 792
    edited September 2015

    Allison, sleeping on my back also. Last night I just really wanted to side sleep, but that's not going to happend anytime soon. I use one of those reading in bed cushions and pop my pillow in that, another pillow on my TE side to rest my arm on. Blech. But hey being immobile while I sleep means that I only sweat soak the area directly under me instead of the various parts of the bed I used to toss & turn through. : /

    Katy, are you in touch w your doc re borderline mania? Like we say w/ pain meds - gotta keep ahead of it. xo

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited September 2015


    I have been sleeping on my back, with two pillows behind me for over 5 months since expander placement. Not fun! But, it hurts too much to try to turn onto my side. Exchange surgery is in one week, so Imsee back sleeping for a while longer. I have no idea for how long. I just hope it brings relief because these uncomfortable, hard coconuts in an iron bra need to go!

    My friend is bipolar and uses a C pac to sleep.

  • eheinrich
    eheinrich Member Posts: 792
    edited September 2015

    Sunshine you must be so excited to be so close to exchange. I'm only 3 weeks in and I'm not sure I'm going to make it. Haven't even had a fill yet. Doesn't it seem like there should be a more civilized way to build a boob?

  • Trvler
    Trvler Member Posts: 3,159
    edited September 2015

    lol at 'build a boob'.

    I have a study pillow with a pillow thrown in, a pillow under each arm and one under my knees to make my tummy feel better. Getting in and out of bed to pee is a bi$ch.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited September 2015

    My ND has me on 20 mg melatonin.

  • Sloan15
    Sloan15 Member Posts: 896
    edited September 2015

    Walked all my miles along Crystal Cove State Beach. Beautiful.

    I use sunscreen and a hat, and SPF 50 beach shirt, but I don't wear sunscreen on my legs. How are you ladies balancing taking on enough sun to get vit D with sun sensitivity during chemo and/or radiation? (I have 2 more chemo sessions and then 7weeks of radiation).

    Ksusan, sorry to hear about your sister's BC. Stinks.

    "Build a boob". I think there's a store for that in the mall next to Build a Bear. Yes, there should be an easier way!

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015

    I did several hours of research on melatonin and Tamoxifen last night. Somewhere I read these things which surprised me:

    - the active time melatonin in our body is somewhere around 1/2 hour. So it may help you to sleep but not stay asleep.

    - the body's actual need for it is under 1 mg and most preparations are way in excess of that with no evidence (that I found) that higher doses and more effective and some supposition that more is not better.

    - as much as a streetlight through a window or a light under the bedroom door can render Tamox useless. Makes tumors resistant to it.

    I am sure there are other opinions but I had to stop reading (you know, sleep hygiene) and though I have tried melatonin unsuccessfully several times I am going to try again for the sake of the Tamoxifen connection. I decided to take 1 mg sublingual at bedtime plus 5 mg time released. So that maybe levels will stay higher during the night. WTF knows. Nobody is recommending it as standard of care because although they've definitely established connections in rats, they are concerned about dosage and timing. Even read that taking it at the wrong time (for Tamoxifen purposes) you can do more harm than good.

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015

    And thank you Allison for sharing the bipolar info about your mom. I don't remember ever reading that. And yes Eileen I am painfully aware of myself and under orders to call my shrink's cell phone after 2-3 days of bad sleep. I see him every 3 weeks. For over 6 years now. I have never gotten to a safe place where we could say " see you in 6 months and call me if you have a problem ." He calls it a very brittle case.

    I moved to Oregon, a very small town in Oregon, to minimize drama, triggers, chaos and everything else associated with being close to a lot of people and family. I have done well but bc has been a trigger extraordinaire. I am taking fewer meds than before, partly because of two incidences of lithium toxicity, one requiring hospitalization. I no longer take it.

    One of my biggest challenges is the goals that I have post bc, because feeling great again, feeling like I can do anything with my life,are dangerously close to signs of mania in my case. It is very hard for me to distinguish the difference between feeling good and feeling too good. It's very subjective. So my only reliable first kind of defense is proper and adequate sleep, made all the more important by the Tsmoxifen connection. I feel everything too much. And sny bipolar person will tell you that the good feelings are addicting in and of themselves.

    So I have an arsenal of sleep meds that I try not to use, a cell phone number I try not to use, and a support group that I try to use as much as possible without being annoying. That would be all of you.

    Today : 2 miles on the machines at PT.

  • littleblueflowers
    littleblueflowers Member Posts: 2,000
    edited September 2015

    1.5 hrs on the stairmaster level 7, 100 abs

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015
  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited September 2015


    Yep, it is crazy how I sometimes wiggle across the bed to go pee in the night. Now, I get to figure out how to move after the exchange next Friday. Yes, I am so ready to get this iron bra off (out). But, surgery scares me! I just don't like the idea of being cut. Sounds awful, but that is what happens. Sorry to be gross. I am ready to get this done so I can get on some exercise schedule. I think I am going to ask for a RX to go to a PT so I can do it right. I was lifting pretty heavy weights 8 months ago and am afraid to even use 5 lb. now.

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015

    Lynn- not gross. We will get you through it. You are almost through the gauntlet and you will soon start truly building again.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited September 2015

    9/18: Fitbit steps + stretches + 50 crunches + 125 pedals + resistance band = 9.17 miles

  • slothabouttown
    slothabouttown Member Posts: 449
    edited September 2015

    I bought a sleep mask too after reading about the night light and tamoxifen. Here's what I'd like to know, seriously I can't wrap my head around it....how do they come up with these studies or theories.....I.e.light from under the door will cancel out your tamoxifen? What about wearing socks to bed? Will that increase estrogen production? Or what if my bedroom walls are blue? Does that promote tumor growth? It just seems so random it makes me skeptical. I suppose at some point they've linked sleep hormones with estrogen production and that's the connection?

    And then there's the melatonin- we read all over that it compliments tamoxifen, but then if you take too much it can do more harm than good?!?! How are we supposed to navigate through all this conflicting info? Thinking I'll find a naturopath and try to trust their recommendations, because it might be too much to try to figure this business out on my own.

    That's my rant for the day. Did my usual dog walk and fitbit steps, hoping to get some help moving the treadmill in this weekend.

  • Trvler
    Trvler Member Posts: 3,159
    edited September 2015

    Sloth: That kind of things makes my head hurt. The conflicting info. That's why I just live my life. You never know half the sources of that info and who conducted the study and whose pocket they are trying to pad. At the end of the day, I don't even trust a lot of the doctors because on focuses on one thing and one an another. I think one doctor told me topical estrogen for sex is no problem. I am sure others would disagree of course.

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited September 2015

    it poured all day when I was not at work yesterday. I got on treadmill twice at work and had calls both times. Fail day. Today I will be at a wedding a few hours away so it may not be much better

  • eheinrich
    eheinrich Member Posts: 792
    edited September 2015

    Well done with the exercise ladies. I've been sorely lacking in motivation but need to get back in the game.

    Regarding the randomness of science: it sometimes is the case that instead of coming up with a pre-formed reasonable hypothesis and then doing experiments, one does experiments, using whatever reagents are on hand, in various combinations, looking at a variety of outcomes. Kinda like throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. This is only in cell culture experiments. For animals you need actual proof that something works in cells and is reasonable. This doesn't mean the results aren't there just that this is how you sometimes wind up with weird things. The light under the door thing might have come about because someone didn't fully wrap an experimental container in foil - letting in a touch of light and whatever results were gotten so they followed down that path to see if the connection with small bits of light was real.

    All of this is part of why I'm not sure I want to go back to science. It can be so many hours, so much money, so much everything and then there's nothing to show for it or your boss tells you to do the throw it at the wall thing and nothing sticks. Or you do come up with something that might help people - 10 years from now.

    Enjoy your weekends!

  • Italychick
    Italychick Member Posts: 2,343
    edited September 2015

    17 mile bike ride, so glad I got out early before heat crept up. Glad to be back on my bike, but I have a feeling next week will be spin class again. So sick of heat!

  • slothabouttown
    slothabouttown Member Posts: 449
    edited September 2015

    Thanks Eileen, I was hoping you would offer some insight. Worrying over stuff like that is a step better than worrying about weird pains and aches, but not a lot better. I can't wait for the day I can go back to worrying about when I'll have time to vacuum my car or if I really have to go to that coworker's housewarming party. Ahh the good old days.

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited September 2015


    And, when is that day? I want my old self back too!

  • Trvler
    Trvler Member Posts: 3,159
    edited September 2015

    Sometimes I hate looking at pictures of myself pre BC, because it was the old, innocent me. KWIM?

    Eileen: I get what you are saying. I used to think I would have liked to do some kind of research or lab analysis. But I think it could be lots of long hours and maybe nothing to show for it. I know someone has to do the work, otherwise how would we ever have the treatments we do? I guess it would take a lot of patience and persistence.

    Leigh: Any updates on the hair?

  • littleblueflowers
    littleblueflowers Member Posts: 2,000
    edited September 2015

    1 hr 15 min stairmaster, so far 40 abs...soooooo glad I can feel my skin that's being radiated because it looks like hell!

  • Sloan15
    Sloan15 Member Posts: 896
    edited September 2015

    slotgabouttown - Rant away. I think all of us are passengers on that frustration train!

    Walking my 3 - 5 miles a day. I'm sure looking forward to cooler weather!

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited September 2015

    Managed to sneak in a 3 mile wal

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015

    big gardening day for me. Not cardio, but such a good feeling to use the big shears and be able to raise them over my head with authority! I'm getting stronger. Made such a big mess I ran out of energy and once again, couldn't clean up after myself

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited September 2015


    Guess what, Katy......the mess will be there tomorrow! Unless you have a yard fairy!!!

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2015

    Book Review for Sailorbev

    Sailorbev- if you are out there, I saw this book review this morning and thought of you.

    Lynn- the garden fairy didn't come. It's still there.


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