TORADOL (ketorolac) linked to Recurrence Prevention

Rainey , Don't you love the way Retsky writes? I edited my last post to you LOL, that was one glass of wine to much

Stephy, Falleaves did a pervious Toradol thread. She then joined us here. She has links re: the blocks in her first post on Page 2 here. I C&P'd the entire post

Aug 6, 2015 07:10PM , edited Aug 6, 2015 07:12PM by Fallleaves

Hi Sassy, thank you for bringing up ketorolac again! I started a thread about ketorolac in March of 2014 ( https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/91/topic/...) Right around the same time amoc1973 wrote another thread about the benefit of ketorolac AND paravertebral nerve blocks (https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/91/topic/...)

Both the Retsky and Forget studies blew my mind, and I have no idea why there aren't large scale retrospective and prospective studies being done in the U.S. right now! The one caveat I ran across was that ketorolac was thought to increase post-surgical bleeding, but this study shows that it does not (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24572864) and that it provides superior post-operative pain control, which reduces the need for opioids (opioids may suppress immunity and cause cancer cells to proliferate).

My mother-in-law is going to have surgery soon for DCIS and I will be recommending both ketorolac and paravertebral nerve block to her!

Stephy, she's been off since Aug26th. Her Mom had BC sx recently. She's likely with her.

Solfeo and Steph----this is not mainstream, not ASCO approved. The docs are all reading to see if they're is any way it could hurt you. It' will generate alllot of talk.

Solfeo and Steph. We will know shortly what they think.

Someone raised the question as to if it needs to be used with each sx. The initial sx they're is the concern for tumor bed cells, circulating cells, and distant dormant tumor cells. If the cells are dormant by denying them stimulation in a subsequent sx when the inflammatory response is again activated by cutting. Seems logical, but it will be a question for Retsky.

I plan to soon call Retsky. We are at a turn in the road to now have him come here and give us an opinion. We are a breastcancer group. That's is his focus for several years now. Doesn't seem unusual to me to say "Hey, are we interpreting what you have written correctly". Before I go on with this it's what I strongly believe needs to be done.

Please, DO NOT take this discussion to a new thread. We are in this together. Every bit of discussion needs to be here. These are big decisions and big discussions. Stories allow us to see ourselves in others and them in us. Also, from these stories we raise more questions for Retsky.

Solfeo, please, if you have time and can remember why your BS was against it? Could you tell if she really had read the studies? Sometimes in my past life in similar situations. I'd pick an important point that wasn't in the abstract, introduction, or conclusion. Then I'd bring that into the conversation. If the person had really read whatever we were talking about, I could tell if the read the thing.

Toradol is a tool. It may change history, We don't know. I push heavy that each know the studies chapter and verse, to make a decision. By knowing the material a personal decision can be made. This is not mainstream. We are taking a risk. But we are doing it with some very good science to back us. Each that chooses to fight for the use of Toradol is taking a risk. Risk based on knowledge. This is not a situation where someones's saying " Oh I think it is a good idea.". World's of difference. For those like Stephie, that have read enough that they want to use Toradol, but b/c of extenuating circumstances i.e having an active one year old. I put together the "Dear Doctor" package with the studies and the studies on bleeding. This, I believe, should force the doc to pay attention to our concerns by making them responsible to read.

Solfeo and Stephie your hormone status says there are many tools available. The fact that you had sx already, yes, it's a strong question for Retsky---Will Toradol have any impact now?

Based on my knowledge of the inflammation cascade, with each inflammation occurrence can we prevent more inflammation and reduce the potential for angioneogenesis --the growing of new blood vessels that supply distant dormant cells that were either present before the initial sx or since the initial sx.? Can't be proved yet, in the situation where sx has occurred, but if they're is a CHANCE, I'd say go for it. This statement is empirical at this point with allot of good science behind it as I stated before. This, also, is a question for Retsky.

What's unique here is the drug is not an absolute contraindicated drug for this surgery. If Hematoma does develop, it can be dealt with. Toradol is an absolute contraindicated drug for joint and heart surgery, or history of certain GI conditions, allergy, and nasal polyps. That is not what we are dealing with.

A story: Maybe a bad analogy, but in September,1952 as a 26 month old, my twin, my 4 y/o brother, and I had Polio. The vaccine was approved in 1954. When Salk died, I read his obituary. There was this quote " Salk so believed in his vaccine that he had inoculated his children in June 1952". Just a few months apart, his kids were safe. My family was devastated. In the initial phase, it was unknown how we would come out. I was a few hours away from being put in a lung. Mom and Dad eventually lost everything i.e. home and hearth. I sat and stared, maybe cried. Our whole life was negatively impacted(still is). We were on the wrong side of the shift. My whole life has been spent trying to be on the right side of the shift.

Rainny, your non-scientific two cents makes perfect sense. I suggest when you are on the other side of the major stuff and have your life back to it's new normal, that you take these establishment folks and work on them. As you go through all this stuff, jot down notes of the good , the bad, and the ugly. You may decide in the end that you want nothing to do with it. There again, you may want to write a book. The future isn't written. Take me. I'm retired, I spend hours here each week. The goal is to make change. I'm on the other side of the troubled time. I could go do something else. My hobby lifelong has been learning. This is the perfect fit. They're many here on BCO that do the same. An underlying reason to stay here and do what I do, is my reality is heavily weighted for cancer in my future (bad gene). I'm not waiting for it by sitting on the sidelines. I'm working, enjoying life as it is, and happy.

Studies can make us crazy in reading them. Some suggestions 1. Have two browsers open, maybe more. 2. split screen--one with the study, the other with and open google box. When you run into a word that you don't know, flip to the open window and type define _____________. Use the open browser how ever you need. When I was working on the Microbiome, I had a whole lower screen of browsers open. I was working fast and furious between them. Great fun. Computer got confused LOL. Took hours for my tech service to get it back in working order.. When it comes to statistics, over read them. I, also, find two things. I read and reread a paragraph until I understand it , then I move on. OR if that doesn't work, I move on and see if latter info defines what I couldn't understand. Then the best thing I learned as a young one is to reread something I was done with. Everytime I reread something a little pearl or many little pearls jump off the page. I learn more. I'm on my third time of reading Retsky and have read Forget twice. I intend to read each even more.--hope some of this helped.