Exercise and well being during chemo and radiation

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  • littleblueflowers
    littleblueflowers Member Posts: 2,000
    edited August 2015

    sunshine, I take turmeric instead of aleve.

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited August 2015


    Yes, I was reading that. It seems like a good alternative. I researched Tumeric and it seems to be fine to take as a supplement on a daily basis. Do you take it daily? I found some organic on Amazon but have not ordered it yet

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    yes Lynn! My MO suggested it but said not during chemo. So I took it a couple of weeks before and now am taking it again daily. I take curcurin, which is root of tumeric. Just realized that may be helping with this sudden breakthrough with my pain.

    I got mine from Amazon after shopping around.

    I think it's supposed to help with mental cognition too

    Maureen has anyone suggested that to you for chemo brain?

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited August 2015

    I'm about to start it after radiation, per my oncological naturopath. I have a double-check email out to make sure it doesn't interact with tamoxifen. I'll follow-up here.

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    Thanks KSusan- that will be good to know about interactions. I know you have better "sources" and are a one woman crack (no pun intended) research team.

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    and KSusan- let's start the celebration! 24 hours from being DONE!!!!!

    πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸŽˆπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒ

  • Hopeful82014
    Hopeful82014 Member Posts: 3,480
    edited August 2015

    Re: turmeric - there are some concerns about it's phytoestrogenic effect, so if you have/had an ER+ cancer you may want to discuss that issue thoroughly with your MO before taking supplements.

    My MO told me it's fine to use in cooking, etc., but not to supplement with it. She also passed on that one of her naturopathic colleagues mentioned high rates of contamination in turmeric supplements. Note: my current MO is pretty conservative but she did at least check with other sources on this issue.

    On the other hand, if you're TN, I imagine you can have at it with the turmeric.

    MSK has a reasonably good site reviewing the pros and cons of a variety of herbs, spices and pytonutrients for vis-a-vis cancer. Being that it's MSK it does tend toward the conservative side, so use it with that in mind.

    I brought back turmeric (and other treasures) from the spice market in Dubai this past winter - it far surpasses anything I've ever found here in quality of flavor. It would be worth another trip just to re-stock.

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    Thank you Hopeful- now isn't that just typical. I'm am ER+. Just took my morning pill. Guess I better check the bus schedule for the next one to Crazytown.

    In the interest of distracting me, can you share any pictures or glorious descriptions of said spice market?


  • wpmoon
    wpmoon Member Posts: 270
    edited August 2015

    Hopeful - skin is doing okay after rads. The worst spots for me are my armpit and under my breast - mostly just really dark.

    Didn't really exercise this weekend, but went to the shooting range with a friend yesterday, and that was quite the arm and brain workout. I seriously need more practice.

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited August 2015

    Oh, boy! I will check out the estrogen interaction as well. Here is what I was going to order from Amazon: Organic Cucumin (Tumeric). There are so many things that can have an effect with estrogen. I have researched make up and body lotions. Threw out a garbage bag of stuff and now am using Juice Beauty and coconut oil. Also ordered a Berkey Filter for water. I researched water filters too and this one seems very good. I got rid of all Tupperware stuff and have a new stainless steel coffee pot. I have read several articles about Keurig coffee makers and the plastic cups....not good to use. Who knows what to believe anymore!

  • octogirl
    octogirl Member Posts: 2,804
    edited August 2015

    yay Katy on the pain going away!! and thanks for the Yoga inspiration. Looking for a class.

    I was feeling cruddy this am, just emotional crap, so I just walked out the door, one foot in front of the other and soon did two miles! Upping my game again tomorrow!

    Octogirl

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited August 2015


    Octogirl, Are you just starting chemo in September? If so, why? Just wondering

  • Lovemylab
    Lovemylab Member Posts: 80
    edited August 2015

    I was told only b6 for supplements during chemo. Tomorrow is last chemo and appt w MO so I will ask about turmeric. I also plan to ask about soy as my daughter likes tofu and I cook for us both sometimes. Getting my list of questions for MO written down today as I sure won't remember them tomorrow .

    On a positive note I found out today that I will be getting short term disability for the last six months off work per employers insurance company. I even had him double check as HR has told me repeatedly no STD. That should be a nice check and now insurance is working on LTD. I work for an awesome company, hope I will be able to return someday. Doing my chemo brain homework faithfully!

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited August 2015

    A lot of reputable sources point out that phytoestrogens aren't the same as animal estrogens. They may even have beneficial effects for reducing breast cancer (newer studies on dietary soy show benefits to Caucasian women--previous studies were initially done in Asia, which makes sense given the prevalence of soy in East Asian diets). My MO suggested that a few servings of dietary soy every week would be fine, and her only question about curcumin is whether it interacts with tamoxifen. I'll post when I here back. My naturopath is empirically driven.

    ETA: Here's an animal study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22512082

    Effects of curcumin on the pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its active metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, in rats: possible role of CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein inhibition by curcumin

    Abstract

    The effects of curcumin, a natural anti-cancer compound, on the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, were investigated in rats. Tamoxifen and curcumin interact with cytochrom P450 (CYP) enzymes and P-glycoprotein, and the increase in the use of health supplements may result in curcumin being taken concomitantly with tamoxifen as a combination therapy to treat or prevent cancer. A single dose of tamoxifen was administered orally (9 mg x kg(-1)) with or without curcumin (0.5, 2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) and intravenously (2mg x kg(-1)) with or without curcumin (2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) to rats. The effects of curcumin on P-glycoprotein (P-gp) and CYP3A4 activity were also evaluated. Curcumin inhibited CYP3A4 activity with 50% inhibition concentration (IC50) values of 2.7 microM. In addition, curcumin significantly (P < 0.01 at 10 microM) enhanced the cellular accumulation of rhodamine-123 in MCF-7/ADR cells overexpressing P-gp in a concentration-dependent manner. This result suggested that curcumin significantly inhibited P-gp activity. Compared to the oral control group (given tamoxifen alone), the area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC(0-infinity)) and the peak plasma concentration (C(max)) of tamoxifen were significantly (P < 0.05 for 2.5 mg x kg(-1); P < 0.01 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) increased by 33.1-64.0% and 38.9-70.6%, respectively, by curcumin. Consequently, the absolute bioavailability of tamoxifen in the presence of curcumin (2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) was 27.2-33.5%, which was significantly enhanced (P < 0.05 for 2.5 mg x kg(-1); P < 0.01 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) compared to that in the oral control group (20.4%). Moreover, the relative bioavailability of tamoxifen was 1.12- to 1.64-fold greater than that in the control group. Furthermore, concurrent use of curcumin significantly decreased (P < 0.05 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) the metabolite-parent AUC ratio (MR), implying that curcumin may inhibit the CYP-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen to its active metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen. The enhanced bioavailability of tamoxifen by curcumin may be mainly due to inhibition of the CYP3A4-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver and to inhibition of the P-gp efflux transporter in the small intestine rather than to reduction of renal elimination of tamoxifen, suggesting that curcumin may reduce the first-pass metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver by inhibition of P-gp or CYP3A4 subfamily.

    (Emphasis mine.)

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    so I'm so dim about these complicated briefs, I get that it's ok to take then concurrently.

    And that it might be working because it suppresses something rather than stimulating? And makes it stick around in the body longer?

    Reminds me of how tumor suppressor cells are supposed to work.

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    Lynn I have made similar search and destroy missions in my kitchen. I haven't given up my Keurig yet but it's on the list. I was wasting so much coffee before. I once had a mini French press. Perfect for one cup. A hassle for two. The big ones get cold, i don't want a microwave anymore and the thermos one doesn't work. Argghhh. I have a stainless electric kettle but there is still a little plastic in all of them that I've researched carefully.

    Here is what I buy from Amazon and I guess I'm going to take it after reading the above synopsis.

    A lot of NOW PRODUCTS are organic, this one does not say so, but I like the company and it does say "Free Radical Scavenger"! Fry the mutants!! Or scavenge them. Whatever works!

    image

  • Hopeful82014
    Hopeful82014 Member Posts: 3,480
    edited August 2015

    Susan, I was simply passing on what my MO had concluded after consulting with her sources. And she is conservative. I do think we should be aware of the issues/discussions, particularly regarding such highly touted alternatives. We all need to figure out what we're o.k. with.

    Frankly, I found her advice a great excuse to use more of it in my cooking. I add a pinch to soups, sprinkle a bit on salads, whatever. It doesn't lend itself as much to summer dishes as wintry foods but it presents an interesting challenge.

    Katy, I wish I could send you a waft of the aromas in the market - it was marvelous. I think I can track down a photo or two this evening.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited August 2015

    Sure. I'm not disagreeing. Katy, in that study it appears to help by slowing the body's metabolism of tamoxifen (therefore making more available for a longer time).

    I don't think curcumin is that different from dietary turmeric--it's one of its active components. Here's what Andrew Weil says:

    Other studies of turmeric and curcumin have shown the following benefits:

    • Turmeric extract worked as well as a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug for treatment of osteoarthritis of the knee in a study published in the August 2009 issue of the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine.
    • Laboratory studies suggest that curcumin acts as a weak phytoestrogen and seems to have cancer protective effects.
    • Lab studies have also shown that curcumin induces programmed death of colon cancer cells, and clinical trials are investigating the use of curcumin in treatment of colon cancer.
    • Curcumin suppresses microinflammation in the GI tract associated with inflammatory bowel disease.

    I frequently recommend turmeric supplements, and I believe whole turmeric is more effective than isolated curcumin for inflammatory disorders, including arthritis, tendonitis, and autoimmune conditions. Take 400 to 600 milligrams of turmeric extracts (available in tablets or capsules) three times per day or as directed on the product label. Look for products standardized for 95% curcuminoids. Neither curcumin nor turmeric taken orally is well absorbed unless taken with black pepper or piperine, a constituent of black pepper responsible for its pungency. When shopping for supplements, make sure that the one you choose contains black pepper extract or piperine. (If you're cooking with turmeric, be sure to add some black pepper to the food.). Be patient when taking turmeric supplements: the full benefits may not be apparent for eight weeks.

    Don't use turmeric if you have gallstones or bile duct dysfunction. Pregnant women shouldn't use it without their doctors' approval. In rare cases, extended use can cause stomach upset or heartburn. (Note that piperine can slow the elimination of some prescription drugs including phenytoin [Dilantin], propranolol [Inderal], and theophylline. Some evidence also suggests that curcumin can interfere with a chemotherapy agent used to treat breast cancer, so if you're being treated for this disease, be sure to discuss the advisability of taking curcumin with your physician.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited August 2015

    More Weil:

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited August 2015

    ksusan, Your hair is looking really good. I have peach fuzz and it is white, so you really can't see it. Thanks you for all the links.

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited August 2015

    Hope they're useful! There's so much contradictory info out there. I think the best we can do, in general, is be moderate and watch well-constructed research for trends.

  • sailorbev
    sailorbev Member Posts: 75
    edited August 2015

    I walked 3 miles this morning and went to my weight-lifting class. I started cleaning the house this afternoon but ran out of steam, there is always tomorrow. Β I am planning to eat a broiled open-faced cheese and tomato sandwich for dinner. Yum.Β 

    Looks like I should start looking into using turmeric in my food!

    Only 2 more radiation sessions then I am FREE!

  • ksusan
    ksusan Member Posts: 4,505
    edited August 2015
  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    Brava- Octo! It is MOST impressive when we don't feel like it. You, in turn, have inspired me to add a late-afternoon walk to add to my very nice yoga class this morning! Thanks!

  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    And I would like to congratulate KSusan, our fearless leader, Frau Doktor, one-woman research team on her final rads treatment tomorrow.

    You have been a beacon of strength, humor, and grace. Brava!!!!! Let the dancing girls sweat without remorse!

    πŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸ‘πŸ»πŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸ’ƒπŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰

    Thank you so much for starting this thread, and for being so good natured about food porn and other excuses for not exercising, so long as they promote well-being.


  • Jackbirdie
    Jackbirdie Member Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2015

    Sailorbev- I like your choices. Put yourself first. The house won't be any dirtier tomorrow. That was a super day of exercise, and congrats on getting close to the end of rads yourself.

    Let's celebrate you with this: πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰β›΅οΈβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈπŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»πŸŽˆπŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸŽˆβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈβ›΅οΈ

    (You are the first one who's gotten celebratory sailboats! Yay!)


  • octogirl
    octogirl Member Posts: 2,804
    edited August 2015

    Jackbirdie: ooh...now you've inspired me to do a walk tonight! AND I capped of my trip to the big city (big being a relative term) from my small town for a checkup with bs, by retail therapy at Macy's (this Macy's is sixty miles from my house ,and the closest one too me. Amazing how many steps one can add cruising the discount aisles! :-)

    Sunshine, yes, starting chemo in September. But I am not sure why you ask why just now?

    CONGRATULATIONS To Fearless Leader ksusan and to sailorbev on the finishing!

    Octogirl

  • mysunshine48
    mysunshine48 Member Posts: 1,480
    edited August 2015


    Octogirl, Guess I had not noticed before. No real reason. I hope it goes well for you! Keep up the exercise

  • octogirl
    octogirl Member Posts: 2,804
    edited August 2015

    thanks Sunshine! out to do my second walk of the day in just a bit!

  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited August 2015

    Octogirl, good luck with chemo. I love that you are here getting into the exercise habit now before chemo. It will help you immensely during chemo. Keep it up the best you can!

    I had a crazy day but finally dragged my butt out this evening.I walked a mile, ran 2 miles, walked 1.2 miles, then decided to run the final 2.8. As always, using the term "run" loosely here. I am happy because my goal was running 2 total miles for the run and I was not going to string them together. I hate starting from scratch like this and hate being so out of shape, but am thrilled that I was able to exceed my goal. I have a LONG way to go to get 13.1 in time for the Des Moines half marathon. Training for a half got me through chemo mentally, giving me a mental and physical focus other than chemo. I am doing the same thing for rads. Like last time, the goal is to run a mile, walk a mile, alternating for the whole thing, and ultimately to just finish.

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