Drug Creates Inhospitable Environment for bc Progression

I've got a blue ring, too. My teenager says it is a sign of aging.

I've read that estrogen increases copper absorption. And zinc can act as an aromatase Inhibitor. Exercise can also help sweat out the copper and lower estrogen. I am still neutropenic and slightly anemic after all these years so copper depletion won't be for me.

My integrative physician said the following about copper, zinc, iron and vitamin d. Sorry it seems a complicated formula.

Copper minus (ceruloplasm x 3) should be below 10. Mine is at 47 so he will be pursuing chelation with me to reduce that number.

He also said the zinc blood level should be higher than the copper level.

Also, serum iron should be between 50-100.

He said vitamin d should be around 100 (no joke). I have managed to get mine to 98. Vitamin D3 supplementation also needs K2 because they work together synergistically to avoid kidney stones from D3 supplementation.

I will be going back to him to work on copper, zinc and iron levels now that I have completed chemo because I didn't want anything to interfere with chemo. I figure it can't hurt to get these numbers into the appropriate range.

Interested in what everybody else has to share. I'm not a doctor or anything, just sharing what one told me.

He is an MD but not an oncologist. He does do a lot of treatments for breast cancer and lymphedema. So far, I have only gotten blood work and consultations with him because I wanted to wait until after chemo to start the natural process. I will post my experiences and any information I receive. I should be starting to work with him more in a few weeks

My orthopedist (also prescribes biodentical hormones and is a mega healthnut w sports medicine being his main gig) is about the closest I can come to a naturopath w/o driving forever, says he has optimized his own vitamin D to 100-and that's where he'd like mine to be, but it seems to stick at around 80, however since my level was once something like 16 (and yes, I do believe low vitamin D levels left undiagnosed for probably years contributed to my own BC) I'm happy with that. Just wanted to say Italychick's doctor is not the only one who believes in the power of high vitamin D levels to fight cancer and other ills. Someday I hope mainstream doctors will realize the importance of regular vitamin d testing to help prevent BC.

bama, I am sorry that your onc is not more open-minded. I posted this article on another thread about Metformin. This complex study demonstrated which women benefited from Metformin and which did not. You might want to read it to see where you fit and then maybe this is information you can take to your oncologist to back your case.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419613...

I found a study on Metformin tonight that is a bit disturbing to me. It is a complex study that has some potentially good news for insulin resistant women and women with HER+ breast cancers doing neoajduvant therapy but not good news for other types: "Relative to placebo, metformin decreased ki-67 only in women with insulin resistance or HER2-positive tumors, whereas it showed a trend to an increase of ki-67 in the remaining women." Once again, I am overwhelmed at the complexity and heterogenity of the beast that is breast cancer.

It's hard to trust that the powers that be really care about actually making a difference

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/re...

Sadly they are focused on the planned parenthood agenda and hurt funds for breast cancer research.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/07/17/pl...

I started taking tetrathiomolybdate (TM) at the beginning of April so thought I'd share my experience. Prescribed by my naturopath and obtained by mail order from a compounding pharmacy in California. It's $278/mo for the initial dose including shipping, and insurance doesn't cover it. When I reach the targeted level we will kick the dose down for maintenance (how much depends on the individual).

My ceruloplasmin and copper levels were high normal when I was diagnosed. The ND suggested the TM at the time but I couldn't afford it with everything else going on and I wasn't too worried about it since I was in the normal range. My zinc:copper ratio was also low at the time. The optimum ratio is 3:1 and it wasn't even close (copper was quite a bit higher than zinc). I stopped taking all copper containing supplements, tested my water, added 30mg/day of zinc and went on my merry way. Until I had my levels retested last month. Over a 6 month period ceruloplasmin went up 56%, copper was up 73% (and now way out of range), and although my zinc level was up too, the zinc:copper ratio had dropped a further 24%.

I take tamoxifen and I ran across a study that found an increase in ceruloplasmin in patients taking tam, but they don't know for sure if the tam was the cause, or if it could be lifestyle related or what. I did "improve" my diet after diagnosis, and healthy diets do unfortunately contain a good amount of copper, so I couldn't tell you if the cause is the tamoxifen, the cancer or the diet, but it concerned me.

Then when my MO saw the blood work she was the one who suggested the TM this time. She said she couldn't prescribe it herself because it's not conventional standard, but she wanted me to ask my ND about it. Well, that was enough for me so I've been on it for a few weeks. No side effects so far. The worst part is having to take it 4x/day, and you can't forget because if you do have cancer cells that were trying to take hold there can be a rebound effect that gives them what they need to grow. Copper levels spike back up within about 48 hours of stopping the medication, and a sudden surge like that is especially not good.

I have mixed feelings about it. I hate the idea of having to take something that has the potential to make things worse if I have to stop taking it. I can afford it now, but who knows what tomorrow will bring. I had to do something about the copper, though, so here I am.

Hi sassy - No, no patient assistance program. It's compounded from the raw chemical by the pharmacy, not a capsule you get from any manufacturer that would offer patient assistance. I don't know for a fact that no insurance would cover it but that is what I was told by the doctors, and it was true in my experience. The specific reason given for my denial was that compounded prescriptions are not covered. It was originally developed for Wilson's disease (causes copper overload), and is apparently effective for that, so I'm not sure why no pharmaceutical company took up making the pills. I have read that it's not very expensive by the drum so it seems like it would make money. Maybe not enough demand yet, but that might change if the recurrence prevention trials are successful.

I take selenium 200mcg, and have since before the diagnosis, just to make sure I get enough. There was some specific reason I kept taking it after the dx (when I did eliminate some other supplements) but I can't remember exactly why. I take zinc picolinate by Thorne Research because that is what was recommended by the ND. I'm still on 30mg (not mcg) right now, but in my research I have read that the dose given to the Wilson's disease patients was 50mg 2x/day with the TM (this is from memory so don't just take my word for it). I probably need to do that myself but I want to talk to the ND and get my copper and ceruloplasmin checked again before I change anything else. Seeing him later this week. I'll update if anything interesting happens.

Fallleaves, now that you mention it I do remember reading that. I wasn't sure why licensing would be an issue when anyone can buy TM and compounding pharmacies can make the capsules and sell it. Refreshing my memory from your link I see that the Swedish company they mention as holding up the works has a version that only has to be taken once per day (vs. 4x/day), so they don't have a monopoly on the TM itself. They agreed to supply it at cost, but not to fund a Phase III trial for cancer. That doesn't technically prevent it from being studied further but Dr. Vahdat hasn't been able to get the money. Nothing to prevent the Swedish formula from being prescribed off label, though, once it is available.

I believe they are still following the Phase II patients and the majority of them have done well, so that's good news if I'm not mistaken about that. We already know for a fact that it does lower copper - what hasn't been proven in a Phase III trial is if reducing copper reduces risk. For someone like me who has very elevated copper/ceruloplasmin levels it serves its purpose regardless, by bringing the level down. The only downside is the cost when there is no guarantee that prevents recurrence, but there are other health reasons to avoid copper overload. I think it's a good choice for me, but it's another one of the very many factors that have to be weighed on an individual basis before someone decides to spend the money.

I drink 4-5 cups of green tea per day, and have for many years before the BC dx. I can't say with certainty that it doesn't help in some way, but it wasn't enough to prevent a large upsurge in copper and ceruloplasmin in my body. If it does have some effect, I shudder to think how high my levels would have been if I didn't drink it.

Oh great, one more possible polymorphism to worry about LOL!

I've said this before, but I have been an antioxidant and supplement user for many years before the diagnosis. I started because I was having recurrent benign breast problems and biopsies. A lot of people think breast cancer isn't that dangerous anymore, but my research preparing myself during those repeated cancer scares taught me otherwise (a lot of it here, although I only lurked back in the day). I tried to do what I could to prevent it.

One interesting thing was that when I had chemosensitivity testing done on my cancer (conventional and natural substances), there were a few natural supplements that were tested that I had been taking for many years that showed zero effectiveness against my cancer. Curcumin was one and melatonin is another. No proof, but I've speculated in my mind that my cancer developed resistance over the years to get around them, the same way it might for hormonal therapy or chemo. That doesn't mean I don't believe curcumin and melatonin are useful against cancer in other ways, but when applied directly to my cancer cells in a lab they did absolutely nothing, which according to my ND is not what he usually sees. I have put my reports online if you're interested in looking at them http://bcfileshare.org/solfeo/rgcc_report_sept2015.pdf (identifying info removed, supplement charts start on page 14 of the PDF).

Antioxidant as pro-oxidant is the theory behind high dose IV Vitamin C therapy. I had 15 treatments when I was first diagnosed, and continue with bi-weekly maintenance. But I don't take Vitamin C in antioxidant amounts because it could interfere with the tamoxifen.

Fallleaves- thanks for posting your article! I agree with the genetics differences. I noticed the breast cancer line listed in your article is a triple negative line. I have a scientific background but have to admit I could not get the grasp of the article. Can you please explain it a bit more for me?

The green tea has also modified my neutroplils and essentially kept me neutropenic for 3.5 years. I know this because I am BRCA 1 and when I came off everything for my prophy procedures my numbers went up to normal. I have always wondered if green tea has more importance for some people than others. Maybe it is related to the gene mutation?