Does antioxidant increase risk for cancer patients?
Hi everyone, I have just completed chemo and will start anti-hormonal and radiation soon. I've been lurking a lot and these boards have been an amazing source of information and comfort during these months. Wasn't sure where to post this, thought board seemed most appropriate.
Currently looking into complementary options and have come across conflicting information regarding antioxidant supplements. I was told to avoid them during chemo as they could protect cancer cells from being attacked and killed off by chemo drugs (well this is in my layperson's terminology!). Scientifically, I'm not sure what this means exactly, but logically it got me thinking, would this mean antioxidants protect cancer cells when not on chemo as well? Let's say I take an antioxidant supplement and my immune system attempts to kill a rogue cell, is this going to work against me?
I researched and have come across a few articles on this. From my limited reading it seems they may be beneficial for a person who doesn't have cancer, but for someone with cancer, it's doesn't seem promising. I will ask my MO on my next visit. Was wondering if others know anything about this. I'm trying to be minimalist with supplements and avoid anything that is unnecessary and definitely nothing that could potentially be harmful.
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20140129/could-antioxidants-speed-up-cancer-progression
Comments
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I won't claim to have the answer to your questions, but my holistic MD has me on several antioxidants, including vit C and E and alpha lipoic acid. Melatonin is a powerful fighter against cancer cells and actually causes apoptosis. I think the antioxidants that he has me on though do double duty as detox and that's why I take them--I had to do chelation therapy for mercury and lead. Another way to look at this too is that the supplements will strengthen your normal cells and your immune system.
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I attended a basic nutrition class before I started rads where we were advised to avoid antioxidants during active treatment as it was counter productive to radiation....once the cancer cells were destroyed it makes sense that the antioxidants would be a good thing
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I agree with JJ. During Tx you want to listen to your docs and avoid antioxidant supplements but after Tx is over, you can discuss that's appropriate. When I went through rads they said I could eat whatever I wanted, could gorge on blueberries for example, but no supplements. FWIW, my ex-husband (I was married at the time) has a PhD in applied physics and confirmed that radiation treatment works by creating oxidation, so if you're going to go through the trouble of doing radiation treatment, you may as well reap the benefits.
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Other studies that it either doesn't help or actually hurts:
http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-preventi...
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Well, that study says lung cancer, and two specific antioxidants, Vitamin E and NALC. Other studies show that C and D are very beneficial. I am probably not going to take them during my upcoming brachytherapy, but it's only a week.
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Radiologists advise against antioxidants during rads as normal cells will survive anyway, but a cancer cell near extinction might just derive enough protective oomph from the vitamins to turn right around and survive. This theory is not proven, but seems pretty widely held. It made sense to me, and I did not take a vitamin until I'd been on my AI a couple of weeks and felt confident it's anti-estrogen activity was busy clobbering any leftover bad guys.
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All kinds of studies show that it is either useless or detrimental to take large doses of A, C, E etc. In general it is not advisable to take vitamins in pill form, unless you have a deficiency or some other medical reason for doing it.
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I too find the studies all over the map and appreciate both links. But all my docs said no antioxidants during active treatment - chemo or radiation. They did approve one Centrum Silver multi-vitamin per day, which has MDR antioxidants included. I'm 1 year out and started extra Vit E 400IU again a couple of months ago since I always believed it helped keep my knees more "fluid" and less "creaky". I know - absolutely no scientific proof but it seemed to work in years past. Anyway, I'll finish this bottle but won't buy anymore. Not worth taking a chance at feeding any growing cancer cells - which I know are surely hiding somewhere in my body since I'm Stage 3 and have already had one recurrence.
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Re: Centrum. Don't waste your money. They are one of the worst vitamins out there.
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Agree w/leggo on Centrum and similar manufactured products vs. natural vitamins derived from food sources (i.e. ascorbic acid vs. concentrated rosehips). Those drugstore brands (like Centrum) can hype you up -- so you might experience a temporary energy boost -- but they don't nourish your cells, and are lacking all the surrounding micronutrients. They also contain unhealthy fillers, binders and dyes. The end result is that your body actually has to work harder to eliminate them. This is also one of several reasons why some studies don't show a benefit with supplementation. They use isolated, test-tube nutrients, which have a totally different effect on our bodies than wholesome food does. (Off my soapbox...)
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Forgot to mention they're manufactured by Pfizer. That alone is enough reason to keep it out of my mouth (although that includes a personal bias, sort of).
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Leggo, you always give me a chuckle the way you put things. I am with you on this. I do take some supplements, a small calcium pill, sometimes magnesium if I am getting muscle cramps and I take probiotics. But in terms of vitamins, I have concluded that we really need to get our vitamins from actual food and that a pill is not the same thing. It does mean that you have to be mindful of what you eat though, but that is probably a good thing.
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Couldn't you get magnesium and probiotics from food?
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Yes, you can, but I was depleted of magnesium and needed a bit more than is easy to get just from diet. Ditto for probiotics. Also, I am very prone to yeast infections, since childhood. Probiotics in pill form is the only thing that effectively prevents that, for me
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Don't get me wrong, I do take supplements, including a multi. There's much better quality than Centrum (the one most recommended by doctors LOL).
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Thank you, everyone. Yes, I've been given a handout on avoiding antioxidant during radiation as well; Vitamin C, E, selenium and beta-carotene supplements and a list of foods with high content of the above which would be ok to eat in moderation.
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Just yuck, Dlb. I never thought of what was in those vitamin pills, except to wonder why they add color to them (and to Rx's!). I'm not a big taker of pills, but now I'm even less interested. Basically, I take vitamins when I've been skimping on veggies. Guess I'll pay more attention to my diet--don't want all that extra stuff. Yuck again.
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Looked around and found a review from 2007 that lists various antioxidants and their effectiveness when combined with different types of chemotherapy.
A review is a formal overview of multiple scientific studies with detailed information on populations or animals studied, amounts/dosages of medicines/supplements, and outcomes. So I would consider this paper as "evidence-based" as any journal article, i.e., something you can bring to your MO as a point of discussion. (Evidence-based medicine is that ever-popular "gold standard" right now.)
This review seems to suggest that there are benefits to certain antioxidants, based on study results.
http://pinestreetfoundation.org/breast-cancer-chemotherapy-antioxidants/
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My MO and the infusion nurses all said to stop all antioxidants during chemo. They were trying to kill cells w/the treatment and antioxidants were trying to build cells back up or grow new cells - so it was counter productive.
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