Massive ILC tumor, not all gotten with 1st mammoplasy
Hi all.
Last Tuesday I had a right raquet mammoplasty (BCS) in order to try to save my breast tissue. 290g (about 10 oz) was taken out and one of the margins was not clear. I was given the option to have another centimeter or so taken out and hope for the best with the margins or a mastectomy. My husband and I opted for the resection with the knowledge that I will need a mastectomy if it's not successful at this time (I would then ask them to lop both off with reconstruction).
Sometimes I wonder if I'm making the right decisions. It's hard because my husband and I are alone, no family other than our little children (2 and just turned 6). The rest are in the US (me) and Switzerland/Germany (hubby).
The report stated that the tumor was a massive 9.6 cm long (being ILC, not diameter) and all but one margin was clear. The unclear margin had some "branches" (I know you'll understand what this means) of between 5 and 10 mm along that margin. Hence why they want to go in and take another centimeter or so for the margin.
In addition to the massive tumor (my God, how did I not know it was freaking there?!? and how long has it been GROWING there?!?) I had 13 lymph nodes taken out (axilla) and 4 were cancerous (we knew before 1 of 2 were cancerous from a biopsy beforehand), with the largest cancerous mass being another HUGE 6mm. And extra nodal extension was present.
*sigh* I am just devastated. I'm only 42 with very young children with no family support. With the hugeness of both the tumors and cancers found in my lymph nodes, I am so concerned about how much I have left on this earth.
I had planned to be here for another 42+ years. Ain't gonna happen now.
I just feel so despondent.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
Chris
From Milwaukee, living in Melbourne
Comments
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Hi Chris, I am sorry--you are going through a really rough time, and I know how hard decisions can be at this juncture in the process. Try not to despair and put a death sentence on yourself--you could live another 42+ years and be around to see grandchildren! I cannot really advise you, as each person's situation is different, but if I were you, I'd pursue getting clean margins aggressively.
You will probably be offered chemo. Other than that--do you know the pathology of the tumor yet? Does it have estrogen receptors? I have been reading, and I believe it was my friend's experience, that Tamoxifen is not that effective with ILC. So, if you do have estrogen receptors, I'd ask my doc about that and what is the best hormonal treatment for ILC, esp. given your young age.
I wish you all the best, and keep posting--you will get lots of support here.
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Hi there. Thanks for the reply.
I am ER 95% positive/ PR 75% positive and HER2 negative. I've read various things regarding ILC and Tamoxifen, both good and bad, so I really think it's still being researched. I don't mind my ovaries being taken out as I have my two beautiful children. My negativity is that every time I go to an appointment, I have never had a good result for anything, so it's just been so discouraging. Except that the CT Scan and Bone Scan were both clear, so as far as we know, I'm not Stage IV.
I know I will definitely have Chemo and Rad after the tumor is finally dealt with. And of course hormonal therapy, but I haven't yet met with the oncologists as I am just dealing with the surgeons at the moment. They have all discussed my case as a group but not with me personally.
Thanks for the message. I know I need to get more positive, but just so hard, especially with the HUMONGOUS tumor and cancer cells found in the lymph nodes and little support (but some!) in Australia.
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I agree that you may very well have at least another 42 years ahead of you! That said, and due to your young age at diagnosis, you may want to be evaluated by a genetic counselor at some point down the road (too much going on right now so just take one step at a time)
It also felt like bad news at every turn for me when I was being worked up. Several months from now you will have better perspective. Enjoy those kids - they can keep you busy and distracted, in a good way...
Just noticed we both have Wisconsin roots. There is a thread here under "help me get through treatment" where we talk to former residents, discuss the Badgers/Packers, etc. Stop in and say hi
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Hi Chris, I a sorry to hear about your diagnosis. As I read your post, one thing came to mind. ILC is often lumped in with IDC so 9.6 cm sounds huge, but it probably doesn't have the depth/volume of a 9.6 cm ductal tumor. My ILC was multifocal, with 3 distinct pieces, each 1.5 cm or less, and they measured it, for staging purposes, based on the largest of the three (that is, they did not sum the three tumors together).
You will get through each day, each decision at a time. I am coming up on my one year anniversary of diagnosis - having some flash backs. One thing that I wish I had done differently is ask for some anxiety meds - I didn't and docs didn't offer them. I went into my BMX sleep deprived, and I think it made recovery more difficult.
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Hi Chris,
I'm very sorry to read about your dx. My tumor was massive. It was more than 8 cm so I certainly relate to the fear that comes with knowing you have a tumor that large. I was treated with chemo before surgery and while I did not have a complete response, it did shrink to less than half the size by the time I had surgery. I had radiation after surgery. I also have 2 kids, now 13 and 11. I just celebrated 1 year cancer free and live my life each day. It is a difficult and challenging road but you will get through it. I did my best to focus on each step of the journey and not think too far in advance. During chemo I tried not to worry about surgery. After surgery I focused on recovery and not upcoming radiation. During radiation I took it one day at a time. I found it easier for me to break it down into segments because it was too overwhelming to consider all that was ahead. I wish you the best. May you have nothing but happiness in the next 42 years!
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Hi, there. My tumor was believed to be 7 cm before chemo. I had chemo before surgery. I was refused anything but a mastectomy. I hate to question anyone's medical advice or decisions, but I would strongly suggest thinking about a mastectomy. Just my 2 cents.
I am doing well almost 4 years out. I had 10 nodes cancerous even after chemo and was left with about a 2 cm tumor. I felt the same way--how can I not have even known it was there!! But that is the nature of ILC.
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I was diagnosed with ILC a month ago and the wide local excision did not get it all due to occult imaging and usual story or branches not seen on imaging. I then decided on a mastectomy as advised by team meeting. I am 42 and in Aus too. I had my first chemo today 9 days post op as studies indicate chemo sooner than later has good outcomes. Mine is multi focal. I am ER/PR + HER - they want to induce menopause and use letrozole as a large study indicated lobular reacts much better with it over tamoxifen. Wishing you the best
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Hi, Chris,
Mostly I just wanted to say please plan on being here another 42 years! Starting as soon as you read this post. I'm not even going to tell you you have "every chance" of it. Keep telling yourself YOU WILL BE instead of the other; I know it's hard. Also, ER/PR+ and HER2 - is a really, really good thing. So hang on to that, too.
I was so scared of chemo. It wasn't pleasant but I got through it. I was scared of having a port for IV administration, and that was so much better than getting an IV every time, so that worked out much better than I thought as well. By the time I got to radiation, I didn't even hyperventilate about it. It was more of grind (5 days a week for a while) than anything else.
My late husband died of oral cancer nearly 20 years ago. When I got the BC dx I freaked out because 1) I first compared my experience to his and thought it would be the same, and his was pretty awful 2) compared his txs to what mine might be and that scared me too.But my experience was so different--so much has changed. I quickly realized that as soon as I did research and asked questions, talked to ladies on this board and friends who had a similar dx, and felt so much better.
My attitude was: give me EVERYTHING the medical profession can give me to knock out the c cells once and for all. I wanted them to bring it on, they did--and I got through it. You will too, however you cope.
Keep us posted--cyber-hugs-
Claire in AZ
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My wife had a lump in 2008 in her breast, it was diagnosed as IDC w/ some lobular.(ILC)Stage 2B-- The 1st lumpectomy did not get a clear margin, the 2nd one did. She had a small (.3mm) in the sentinel lymph node (3mm) They removed about 6 nodes. Lobular cancer puts out fingers, and is not seen often in mammos, or ultrasound, and breast MRI imaging is needed to see extent, we were told. She had 6 cycles of TAC chemo, radiation and was on Arimidex for 5 years without recurrence, but the surgeon took a huge margin the 2nd time, I think the cancer was 4-5cm after 2nd lumpectomy.
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Oh, my goodness, AusUSA, I soooo understand how you feel. My ILC tumor was 11cm.
When you said "My negativity is that every time I go to an appointment, I have never had a good result for anything, so it's just been so discouraging. Except that the CT Scan and Bone Scan were both clear, so as far as we know, I'm not Stage IV." Those exact words have come out of my mouth many times.
I am about 2 years ahead of you in my diagnosis and treatment so I can assure you that there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel. It just takes a long time for those of us with ILC to get to out of the dark tunnel. I had chemo, double mastectomy and the 6 weeks of daily radiation. I want to encourage you to take this treatment journey one day at a time.
Looking back, the physical discomfort of any and all treatments was nothing compared to the mental anguish I went through.
I often say that any root canal I had hurt worse than any cancer treatment I had.
All of my best wishes to you. Feel free to private message me. I know what you feel like.
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I also have ILC and like everyone else was shocked at the size. But as several of you have pointed out, a large area of ILC is not quite the same as an IDC lump that size. My MO has basically said to focus on my treatment and not on the "stage" as ILC is a different animal and harder to stage accurately.
I have a friend who was diagnosed with ILC over 30 years ago at age 42 - extremely large area and 16 positive nodes. After a mastectomy and chemotherapy, she's here today still doing just fine.
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ILC is a very sneaky tumor! I was diagnosed almost 9 years ago with a 9cm tumor and 2+ nodes. I was religious with my mammograms (my Mother had breast cancer) starting in my mid thirties and all that showed up was a small area of DCIS at 51. I know you can all relate to how shocking it was to find out what was really hiding in there!
I just wanted to say that you shouldn't question yourself as to why you didn't know it was there. My breast surgeon, even when we knew from an MRI that it was larg, was completey unable to feel it. So DON't BLAME YOURSELF!!!!! You did nothing wrong.
Also, could someone educate me on what size met to the nodes is considered micr vs macro?
Thanks, Cyndi -
cyndi, the number I have seen most often for the upper limit of micrometastatic lesion size in sentinel nodes is 2mm. Larger than that is called macrometastasis. There is also a condition of lesser involvement when isolated tumor cells are observed, sometimes in clusters but no bigger than 0.2mm...
With family history and, assuming your cancer was present although undiagnosed prior to age 50, you might qualify for mutation testing. Do you have a genetic counselor available to evaluate the situation?
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Thanks vlnrph for the info.
I did have the genetic testing back when diagnosed and I did not have either mutation. I am very grateful for that. I'll take any good news I can get!
Cyndi -
Chris,
I am also sorry to hear that you are going through this. It is hard to be positive in the beginning because there are too many unknowns. Waiting on surgeons is difficult, but once you are through with that and can meet with the oncologist and discuss future treatment, you will probably start to feel better. Hopefully, people in your community will be able to offer support to you and your family. I am a private person that does not like attention, when I was diagnosed a neighbor sent out a sign up for meals (I was so embarrassed) and after my surgery complete strangers delivered full meals to my entire family, I cry just thinking about the kindness of complete strangers. Many people have had cancer impact their families and they want to help others. I know your family is not close, but let the people around you know that you might need some help and hopefully they will come. I too had ILC, prior to knowing that I chose a mastectomy, my doctor wanted to do I lumpectomy, but I said no, had I not, I would have had to go back. ILC makes everything difficult, diagnosis and surgery. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. Be strong, you can do this.
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Chris - I just want to chime in and encourage you not to dispair over the 0.6 cm LN. I had a small primary ILC tumor but 2 huge nodes. One 2 cm and one 1 cm both with extranodal extension. I'll be 5 years out from surgery next week. It's overwhelming at first but it definately gets easier when your treatment plan is in place. I believe that axillary radiation was an important component of my treatment. I opted to have my ovaries out and have been on Arimidex for just over 4 years. There is wonderful information and support on these boards. Wishing you the best. ` ~Toomuch
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Encouraging to hear about gals so many years out, including three decades for gkodad's friend!
Not to hijack this thread but need to remind Cyndi that there is much more out there than the basic BRCA 1/2 defects. Rearrangement testing along with several "new" mutations means a follow-up with your genetic counselor could provide another perspective and offer alternatives to others in your family if something was found...
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Hello everyone.
I want to thank everyone for your wonderful responses to my initial message. I was just distraught that first day, with the fact that I would have to go under the knife again (which happened yesterday) and will find out if I got clear margins on Tuesday next week. *crosses fingers*
I'm sorry I have been silent, but the day after I posted my original post, my computer completely died and I may have lost all of my files (including most pics from my 2 1/2 year old son
), but a friend is still working on it. Hopefully I will get them back. Seriously, when it rains, it definitely pours!I am taking solace in the fact that many of you have had huge tumors like mine, and as some have mentioned, it's not a "diameter" like in IDC, it's a "length" so it behaves completely differently, and is marginally (I really hate that word "margin" now!). Also, the fact that I had 4 axillary nodes that were positive, one of which was 6mm, still doesn't mean it's the end.
I am a lot more positive now, hoping to keep this way. Praying my margins have been cleared this time, and chemo can begin. Not that I will like chemo, it's just I want to move on to the next step to hopeful wellness,
Thank you everyone for your mostly positive replies and hope I can start climbing my way out of this hole cancer has put me in.
Chris, the American in Australia.
(have to find the person who mentioned the WI page and Packers.
love my packers!)
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